Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Freakishbob 03-28-07, 03:04 PM	I am running a campaign and my pc's either make terrible decisions, go around plot points or just ignore them completely. I have killed one players PC several times because he makes very poor combat decisions ( i can only fudge the dice so much ). They also do not use any communication for trying to solve my plot points they just randomly attack crap i have tried explaining to my players that they will get further (and more xp) if they stop doing this kind of thing but the problem still continues. whats a dm to do?
Imatash 03-28-07, 03:09 PM	For dying characters perhaps be a little more obvious if he needs to show caution. Talk to the rest of the party thru the local cleric that keeps healing/raising him asking them to look out for him better than they are. If they are missing plot lines maybe you just have to be a little more obvious as well.....they may still not get it and just enjoy the hack and slash ...sigh....too much. Are they having fun? Don't sweat it for now then. Remember Player Characters die....:) Imatash
Freakishbob 03-28-07, 03:15 PM	we'll i have only raised one pc the rest roll a new character (do to the player have constant argument over every decision i make) They are having fun i would just like them to get into the big hook i have planned. Also i have made the hook as obvious as possible and they just flat out ignore it.
Pallin Rahl 03-28-07, 03:20 PM	Allow actions to have their logical consequences in your game world and let the dice fall where they may (both figuratively and literally speaking). :) I've been lucky that the group of friends I've gamed with forever now have never had such problems... I'd suggest letting your players learn from their mistakes. More specifically, let them learn from the adverse consequences of their actions. Don't fudge your rolls to accomodate their poor decisions... or they're all the more likely to repeat such poor decisions with little care of the consequences. Hopefully they'll get the idea. Note: I'm not saying you should be vindictive or mean about it... just let things play out as they logically should. On the flip side... remember, being constantly railroaded by the DM can get old. Sometimes PCs will skip over or miss your plot hooks. ...this, in and of itself, isn't anything to flip out about. Now, if they are intentionally and consistantly going out of their way to even act out-of-character to skip your plot hooks... that's something altogether different - something that needs to be discussed in a calm, direct manner out-of-game (with the players). --- (edited in) They are having fun i would just like them to get into the big hook i have planned. Also i have made the hook as obvious as possible and they just flat out ignore it. Well... first of all consider if the hook is something that the players would even enjoy. Having a fun plot you'd like to play-out as the DM is one thing, dangling a plot hook out there that the players have little interest in is another. You may really want to have a session of political intrigue and diplomacy... but your hack & slash players are not likely to be very interested in that hook if you just kinda dangle it out there to be easily passed over for something more to their liking. That being said, a good way to generate some interest is to have it (either directly or indirectly) effect one of the PCs. Maybe you want to kick off a murder mystery... but the PCs aren't really the "crime solving" types and they figure a few random killings around town would be better handled by the local authorities. However, when the sister of the party's Cleric is found dead, in a manner similar to these other random killings, the PCs have a very good reason to get involved. :) Maybe give us a bit of what you're trying to hook them on (and a little basic info on the PCs) and we can offer some suggestions on how to better accomplish it. :)
johnwhitmyre 03-28-07, 03:23 PM	when the pc's die, do you impliment the -1 level lower on creating a new pc? my group sort of used to play like that.....i'm a pc in our group but im sort of an asst dm(i know alot about the rules and the misc stuff. i read these books like everyday. im sure others do as well) but when they kept playing stupid, and i and my pc would get angry i would say ooops, this spell does damage to everyone in the area. sorry. maybe you shouldnt have done that, lol. Fighters dont always need to rush into every fight. OR, if you know they will keep playing stupid try this......instead of killing the pcs outright, make it where they fight some creature that steals Str from the fighter so he runs around with only 8 str, the rogue gets his dex reduced to 5, the wizard is now an idiot with 7 intelligence and cant cast his beautiful spells. dont let them make the new pcs make them keep the weakened pcs. and if they try to kill themselves dont let them. keep fudging the rolls, "oh wow the 20th lvl fighter you are fighting keeps rolling 1's and 2's, whats a dm to do, cant believe yer group of specials are doing so great, hahahahah"
Freakishbob 03-28-07, 03:26 PM	i agree with pc's being able to do what they will that was a big part of this campaign. but they ignored all 5 plot hooks i had planned. i have talked to them about this BUT i think what im going to have to do in that aspect is through in a plot hook that cant be ignored. kind of a ...vacuum quest if you will... but any suggestion on how to deal with a player that constantly argues with you or tries to TELL YOU HOW TO RUN YOUR CAMPAIGN! will be helpful cause its gotten to the point where i just want to hit him.
Comus 03-28-07, 03:38 PM	If all they're doing is going around attacking things, then have the plot hook come to them. Next time you roll a 'random encounter', instead make it something special - nobility or royalty of a neighboring country. Don't make it obvious. The players will probably murder them. Congratulations if they do - you've got them on a plot hook! Now they're wanted men. Or, if you don't want to do that, have you just been dangling hooks, or actively had NPCs ask them for help?
Pallin Rahl 03-28-07, 03:39 PM	...any suggestion on how to deal with a player that constantly argues with you or tries to TELL YOU HOW TO RUN YOUR CAMPAIGN! will be helpful cause its gotten to the point where i just want to hit him. Well... this is a "player problem" to be dealt with out-of-game. i.e. don't let your animosity towards this player spill into the game, deal with it like two rational people, out of game. Sit the problem player down (when the rest of the group isn't there... no need to embarass the player) and, in a calm manner, tell him how you feel. Ask him to please show a little respect by allowing you to run your campaign as you see fit and if he has any suggestions, you'd be happy to hear them outside of the game / after the game / whenever. If everyone else is having fun, but this one player refuses to let you run your game, then it might be time to ask him to leave the group... remember: you should all be there to have fun. Hell, if the guy's your friend and you feel he's otherwise competant, why not suggest he start up a campaign of his own (to DM) that you can be a PC in, alternating his campaign with your own (maybe yours this month, his next, and so on) - that way, you each can DM how you see fit. ;) Regardless, there has to be a little mutual respect being paid here. ...if one party can't muster any, then they should likely not be playing with you.
Freakishbob 03-28-07, 03:41 PM	i have had a lot of Npc's trying to get them to help.....they are all playing chaotic/neutral characters (witch happened purely by coincidence)...and all those characters seem to be extremely apathetic to anything and everything. i think what I'm going to do is just have them all abducted somehow and hopefully they'll investigate the hook further (it involves them traveling a lot). if that doesn't work i think I'm just going to go around the table and slap every player until they decide to take a hook :D
jadehawk 03-28-07, 04:19 PM	Nothing hits Chaotic Neutral more than intrinsic desire. Free Spirits go with what feels right at the time. They should all be playing rather hedonistic characters then. If that is so, find out what they want and hold it back. Then lead them to the promised land with the dangling carrot. Some like loot, some like daring adventure. If all they do is fight, fight, fight, start mixing up the battles so some of the encounters are way too easy (then have it that they later learn they just killed someone they needed or perhaps the child of a political power). If they like loot too much, Then put encounters in their path that they should avoid. Try CR +4 as a starter, but make it avoidable and perhaps escapable even after they've entered. In short, show them humility.
planetouched 03-28-07, 04:39 PM	I would recomend to your frequent dier to play a barbarian. Charging recklessly into battle is what they do best.
Syn_Exelian 03-28-07, 10:57 PM	If your characters are not following your plot points well, then maybe the trick is to create a huge flowchart for adventures detailing what they probably should do, what they probably will do, and anything else you can think of. That way you can be prepared when they turn out to do something completely different than you expected.
Freakishbob 03-29-07, 12:34 AM	we'll game is either friday or saterday and im going to try a little mix and match of the suggestions you all gave me and ill let you know how it plays out. i have a good idea on how to get them hooked into an unavoidable plot. also jadehawk...i do believe they need some humility so ill definitly take that to heart lol.
GraveDigger 03-29-07, 01:27 AM	I love all of the suggestions I have read so far, I run a game for a small group because they truly enjoy it but one of the players is bent on just killing every thing he can.. He will try and play a rogue as a tank it's sad. So they were in a dungeon looking for gold and they heard knocking coming from a casket and so they were suspicious, out of the casket burst a human with a helmet crafted of platinum and 100 jeweled eyes. The man attacked them, the Sorcerer being the brilliant player he is destroyed the helmet after having cast blindness/deafness on the man and he failing both saves. Well when the helmet was destroyed the man starting weeping because he was free of the helmets influence and how he could return to his family... THE ROUGE COUPE DE GRACE the man! Out of frustration the Gods (ME) put a curse on the rogue that until he cleansed the dungeon of the evil he couldn't leave the dungeon or he would be hunted by the hosts of heaven or he died another way. And no he wasn't playing a chaotic Evil character.
StoryTellerSJEM 03-29-07, 02:29 AM	If you feel they just need to learn, be patient and drop the challenges for them. If you feel they just won't listen to you and aren't going to change, find new players. Ask me how I know that lesson. :cool: Best, SJEM
Imatash 03-29-07, 04:48 AM	sometimes recaps of the day's events with loose ends listed in point form keeps PC's more interested in the campaign aspect....sure they remember that they captured the castle but do they remember the bad guy that escaped to fight another day a few weeks back....or that they haven't done anything with the load of silk and satin from the caravan they 'rescued' three sessions ago. With recaps and loose ends given to them over email it keeps them thinking of everything that is in front of them even when we haven't been able to play in 4-5 weeks....why are they having kids anyway? and you can't visit all night!! Remember Player Characters die....:) Imatash kidding by the way about the kids I have 4 (who all play)
BW0222 03-29-07, 11:15 AM	Freakishbob, I am running a campaign and my pc's either make terrible decisions, go around plot points or just ignore them completely. Ok, why? Are they inattentive? Do they rush too much? Are your plots to complex to follow? Are they too young to deal with complex plots? Lack patience? Do they just prefer different plots and are hoping that rushing forward would give them simplier outcomes? Are they deliberately ditching your plots? Are they just following one PC and allowing her to make all the decisions? Do they over analyize decisions to the point where they make it confused? Are they paraniod and think everything is a trick? Are their decisions that bad? Sometimes it is hard to put yourself in their shoes, but they might think their choices were perfectly valid. I have killed one players PC several times because he makes very poor combat decisions ( i can only fudge the dice so much ). They also do not use any communication for trying to solve my plot points they just randomly attack crap i have tried explaining to my players that they will get further (and more xp) if they stop doing this kind of thing but the problem still continues. whats a dm to do? Well... First, you might change gears and try putting them in situations where they can just kill everything. Have their ship get caught in a storm and blown ashore on an orc infested swamp coast. Let them spend the next weeks or months fighting their way out without much thought. Maybe they are hired by a mercenary company and repeatedly told where to go to kill ogre raiding parties, undead filled tombs, etc. i.e. remove the decisions from them and let them play something which they can handle. Not everyone is mature enough (or in the right mind set) for complex plot. Second, keep the main plots dead simple, but introduce some personal plots. Try one with little or no combat, but which can't be ignored. A messenger arrives informing a PC that his sister is getting married in a nearby town. A cleric's church needs him to run services while a priest is away. It gives a chance for individuals to do something, yet... don't cause issues with your main plot -- which is still dead simple. Third, review how you give out XP and treasure. Ensure that you aren't encouraging plot avoidance or by passing because they get better rewards. Consider more XP for plot points and less for combat or just a flat per-game XP total which encourages roleplaying over combat. Perhaps have more treasure come from an employer (rather than monster kills) such that intelligent play get better rewards. Forth, if you can, try getting an experienced playing into the game. Even as a guest or something. Have her show the others by example. Perhaps if others see how more intelligent play gets better rewards, roleplaying chances, etc. Fifth, if you can, try having an NPC 'guide' figure. Some one the PCs like -- a mentor, church head, family member, or even a familiar. Allow this person to voice their "disappointment" when the players propose rash things. Players often react much better if their sister looses a job because her brother beat up a merchant than if you impose 'punishments' directly on the PC. Have their familiar get ****'d because the tavern now tosses him out instead of letting him listen to the music because master had to shoot his mouth off at several folks in the tavern.
HagerHobbit 03-29-07, 05:21 PM	It sounds like your party needs Direction. It would help to know what your Hook is to give direct ideas, but the two driving forces in anyones campaigns should be (or usually are) Money and Fame. So talk about bad guys with treasure. Have town folks have postings for cleaning out some bad guys...with a reward. Ultimately if they can't be snarred with your Hook, ask the party directly what direction they would like to go. Perhaps the conflict isn't they're not seeing the Hook, they just don't care.