Post/Author/DateTime	Post
makeasave 09-24-06, 12:21 AM	We just booted out a guy from the campaign i am in because of what he did. The party gave him a book that was worth 1000 gold pieces for him to trade in the black market (he was the only one in the group with black market connections). He was suppose to go sell the book and then return to the party with the money. So he goes to the merchant sells the book and then buys a wand of cure light wounds. He was a mage so he could not use the item, so he brings the wand back to the cleric in the party and tells him that everytime the cleric uses the wand on a party member to charge them 100 gold, and give the money to him. Unbelievable. He always was a troublemaker from day 1 and he could not understand why we gave him the boot. Anyone else got any horror stories of players?.
Lord_Varos 09-24-06, 12:30 AM	What?! You're kidding me! For this, you kicked a player out of your group?! Impossible, there *must* have been more to it than that. For a player having his character act like an individual (albeit, a rather chaotic, non-team-player individual) rather than part of a machine, you actually removed him from the game? It's not even game-destroying! Who says the Cleric *has* to give him any money, or even charge it in the first place? If he kills team members because the Cleric doesn't, then you should probably start thinking about having a nice, long talk with him. The real "horror story" is that you'd shun a friend because of this incident. I find it abhorrent that your group would do something like this, and I disagree with it completely.
Vexsom 09-24-06, 12:35 AM	I disagree Lord Varos. Acting like an individual is important and is in fact one of the best parts of the game. It's true, however, if a player is constantly creating characters that disadvantage the party 'on purpose' then there's no room for them. Jack's mom kicks him out on his duff when he sold the cow for a few beans. It doesn't matter whether it was good roleplaying, it still creates a serious inter-party issue. While I do think it a bit extreme to kick him out, we don't know if this is his first offense. I assume he'd been warned before, maybe several times.
skeeter_dan 09-24-06, 12:36 AM	That's a horror story? Also, how is that bad roleplaying? His character was clearly selfish: so?
Thunder Dragonbane 09-24-06, 01:25 AM	You think that is bad? You should see some of the things I have had to deal with. 1) Players using player knoledge in game. Metagaming. 2) Palyers that will always turn left when the party turns right, then wonder why they always die first.:banghead: 3) Players who take arcane spellcasters, then jump into the front lines of combat. They also wonder why they die. I don't get it.:banghead: 4) Players who take classes only for one level. Just for the "cool" bonuses. These can never be as strong as a straight class, and they don't get it. Damn munchkins.:banghead: :censored: Anyway rant over. Your magi was trying to help. He simply failed to follow orders.
Vaalingrade Ashland 09-24-06, 02:20 AM	How is this bad roleplaying? He wasn't even really a jerk about it. Now the question is, will the cleric expect a cut for using his powers to activate the wand.
Selmo 09-24-06, 02:39 AM	Im not the DM of our game...but i have some good stories, we dont kick anyone just yell at them, so the campaign would be hard to explain...but basically the rogue and ranger of the group tried to rob someone's house...and it turned out to be a bard twice their level...and the bard takes all their ****...which they just spent all their money enchanting...so they go all emo and go to wher eht equest began in some cursed temple and start tearing **** off th walls and they end up releasing an epic level wizard who the DM then said was supposed to be the final boss of the campaign...he rewrote the campaign alot and rewound to right after they lost their stuff.
Solik 09-24-06, 02:43 AM	Um, yeah, I'm with Lord Varos. If that's the worst this guy did... who cares? I'm guessing there's probably more to it, but you need to share it if you want any sympathy.
DarthCthulu 09-24-06, 02:56 AM	We just booted out a guy from the campaign i am in because of what he did. The party gave him a book that was worth 1000 gold pieces for him to trade in the black market (he was the only one in the group with black market connections). He was suppose to go sell the book and then return to the party with the money. So he goes to the merchant sells the book and then buys a wand of cure light wounds. He was a mage so he could not use the item, so he brings the wand back to the cleric in the party and tells him that everytime the cleric uses the wand on a party member to charge them 100 gold, and give the money to him. Unbelievable. He always was a troublemaker from day 1 and he could not understand why we gave him the boot. Does anyone else smell troll?;) I once kicked a player out for snoring too loud...:D
Moon-Lancer 09-24-06, 04:14 AM	You too...? Man I hate that. I killed a player once, just for saying "are you sure that’s right?" the nerve of that guy thinking I could be anything else but right... When I say I killed the player though, I really killed the player, but that was right before I burned his character sheet and rubbed its ashes in onto his chest to form a satanic seal that would eat his soul after he died. :angelhide
Gemstone 09-24-06, 05:34 AM	I can see a reason to why he chosed to kick out a player. Such things can make a group explode, which can lead to kicking out. I've experienced far worse (as in one player claiming all loot and then bullying the other players into agreeing), so I can see a reason behind it, altough I think its overreacted
kelvinaw273 09-24-06, 09:21 AM	Well, it's a cheek but not a bootable offence. Were I the cleric I'd just smile and say "sure - but every time I use the wand, I demand a 100gp payment to the sick and injured fund," then return the gold to the injured character! Surely there was more to it than just one incident? It certainly sounds as if this character was constantly trying to be 'clever' by ripping people off without much forthought. Did he do anything else like this?
Otto the Bugbear 09-24-06, 09:53 AM	:confused: Black market exists for profit. He was the only one with black market contacts. Why is it a surprise that his role-playing of a character with black-market contacts includes said character trying to make a profit? Cheers Otto :)
makeasave 09-24-06, 10:36 AM	It wasnt his first offence. He would routinely fire arrows into his comrades backs instead of taking the penalty to hit his opponent. He constantly complained about us not giving him a chance to DM. We played his campaign for 3 sessions and it was really bad, so we went with a better DM and he hated it. He really hated the d20 system and he slammed it all the time, even going so far as interrupting the DM when he was talking to slam it. He would also metagame and talk about his stupid comic books that he collects and no one else in the group collects comic books so we did not care. He was just a really, really bad roleplayer and a rude man. Thats why we booted him. Make
OneWinged4ngel 09-24-06, 01:21 PM	We just booted out a guy from the campaign i am in because of what he did. The party gave him a book that was worth 1000 gold pieces for him to trade in the black market (he was the only one in the group with black market connections). He was suppose to go sell the book and then return to the party with the money. So he goes to the merchant sells the book and then buys a wand of cure light wounds. He was a mage so he could not use the item, so he brings the wand back to the cleric in the party and tells him that everytime the cleric uses the wand on a party member to charge them 100 gold, and give the money to him. Unbelievable. He always was a troublemaker from day 1 and he could not understand why we gave him the boot. Anyone else got any horror stories of players?. Nothing in this post qualifies as 'bad roleplaying' or 'horror story.' It just shows the guy's selfish, possibly IC.
Tharin G'tal 09-24-06, 01:37 PM	Origionally i thought you were over-reacting, after reading your second post I think you were looking for a reason to boot him. No sympathy from me :D
makeasave 09-24-06, 02:07 PM	Wasn't looking for any sympathy. I just wanted to know if anyone else had horror stories like this. It is clear by agreeing with the aforementioned player you must of been kicked out of many campaigns in the past.:cool:
Starchaserva 09-24-06, 02:51 PM	Here's a good example of a bad roleplayer...one who falls asleep in the middle of the game, tells the party that he's going to do what he wants and that its their job to convince him to stay (the players, not the PCs) and then one day, when he was playing a cleric, he took the most holy book of his deity, and threw it into a cave...then tryed to exlpain ito the DM that he shouldn't be penalized because he knew that it was what his god truly wanted. Not long after that, he told the same deity what was essentialy "go f yourself" which resulted in a some divine vengeance.
tharivol266 09-24-06, 03:30 PM	okay so i always have my players elect a leader and in this one game i was playing the mutually elected leader got approached in an inn during the night when everyone else was asleep and got a job offer. he accepted the job while he and i were rping the conversation the problem player (PP) kept butting in saying that they refuse and i had to tell him several times that he was asleep. in the morning game time when the other pcs woke up the leader player(LP) told them about the mission and PP said he wasnt going because LP hadnt consulted him about it and even though LP and i argued that it was the leaders job to get jobs for the group of course LP wasnt wanting to listen so the others left without him and he just turned to me with a smug smile and announced that he was going to look around town for another job to which i replied "there are none" of course he didnt comprehend and got all angry and left even though i told him that the party was still within an easy catch up distance from town.
darcdante 09-24-06, 03:43 PM	No one in your party has charm? Cause that tends to solve those problems real quick. I understand a person wanting to have their own "individual" character, but it can certainly get really annoying when a player constantly attempts to disrupt the game by creating characters who don't even make an attempt to work the the party. I love in party conflicts up to a point, but after awhile it just slows the game down. As a player, I'm a fan of charm spells for just such an occasion. As a DM, I just let the players deal with it typically. It'd have to be an aburdedly obnoxious player for me to step in and deal with it, especially if I were to expell anyone from the game.
Cold Napalm 09-24-06, 03:48 PM	So since I assume the party was non good since they are using the black market with no qualms to make a profit. The character just stole from you...well the answer is simple, kill him, take all his stuff, he makes a new character. He does it again, you kill him, take all his stuff and he make a new character. After you have broken the wealth chart in this manner, maybe the DM will step in when the player is about to do something dumb and go, no your character wouldn't normally do that because it's hurting his allies. If he persists, then he gets 0 gold in gear each character creation until he proves he can be a useful member of the party (I assume the party will also give him no treasure until then either). At this point he should leave on his own.
Aeromus 09-24-06, 03:57 PM	It wasnt his first offence. He would routinely fire arrows into his comrades backs instead of taking the penalty to hit his opponent. He constantly complained about us not giving him a chance to DM. We played his campaign for 3 sessions and it was really bad, so we went with a better DM and he hated it. He really hated the d20 system and he slammed it all the time, even going so far as interrupting the DM when he was talking to slam it. He would also metagame and talk about his stupid comic books that he collects and no one else in the group collects comic books so we did not care. He was just a really, really bad roleplayer and a rude man. Thats why we booted him. Make Your DM isn't that great either. You don't EVER have a chance to hit a party member with an arrow. Because, you don't elect to take the penalty. You HAVE to take the penalty.
JamesDruidDM 09-24-06, 04:04 PM	*sniff sniff* I smell troll, wheres my alchemist fire?
Cold Napalm 09-24-06, 04:12 PM	Your DM isn't that great either. You don't EVER have a chance to hit a party member with an arrow. Because, you don't elect to take the penalty. You HAVE to take the penalty. Unless they are cover...
makeasave 09-24-06, 05:36 PM	In regards to your "No arrows in the back post," our DM felt it necessary to make a house rule that allowed such an incident to happen. It was a narrow corridor, and the PC with the bow was at the end of the marching file. If that PC is firing into a close combat occuring at the front of the marching file, do you think a -4 penalty is really all that should be incurred? I think that part of DMing is the fact that you can make rules that fit certain situations. If you arent doing that, then you are just slaves to the rules. You have to be able to be flexible in the right situations, while staying true to D&D as best you can. Make
IbanezNinja 09-24-06, 05:55 PM	You have to be able to be flexible in the right situations Uhh, kicking a guy out of a game due to a minor ingame squabble over a thousand gp when it was perfectly in character to do so doesn't seem flexible to me.
DoomDuck 09-24-06, 06:26 PM	He would routinely fire arrows into his comrades backs instead of taking the penalty to hit his opponent. In regards to your "No arrows in the back post," our DM felt it necessary to make a house rule that allowed such an incident to happen. It was a narrow corridor, and the PC with the bow was at the end of the marching file. If that PC is firing into a close combat occuring at the front of the marching file, do you think a -4 penalty is really all that should be incurred? I think that part of DMing is the fact that you can make rules that fit certain situations. If you arent doing that, then you are just slaves to the rules. You have to be able to be flexible in the right situations, while staying true to D&D as best you can. Make The first doesn't follow from the second - you're saying that the DM ruled that more cover was provided by the PC than the rules suggest. That makes sense. But what does that have to do with choosing to hit the PC rather than taking a penalty on attacking the target have to do with it? The closest I can figure is the DM said, "That shot is impossible - you'll only hit the PC who's in the way," and the guy took the shot anyways. To which I would say that in melee the book suggests that people are moving around and exchanging blows - it shouldn't be made impossible to hit the target, just unlikely (i.e. a penalty to the attack). ~DD
makeasave 09-24-06, 08:36 PM	That was the decision of 5 out of 5 players. If you think we are so wrong i can provide you his email.:cool: I cant wait to see how fast he gets booted out of someone elses campaign:evillaugh
Lord_Varos 09-24-06, 09:24 PM	I saw a really bad player, one time. It was me, all the way. I was a spellcaster. 1. I charged other characters 95% market price to make items for them. They took it gladly. Even though I made items at, like, 30% market price due to some crazy combination of creation feats. 2. I'd buy potions (an item I couldn't make) that I didn't really have use for, like healing and flying, and then charge other characters double market value to use them when they were in a tight spot. 3. I collaborated with the Rogue to steal from everyone else's treasure. 4. I always RPed my pettiness very well, so the players hurt by it couldn't really make a good case with the DM, whom saw nothing bad going on. I hope I never get a player like me in one of my games.
Mandarbgrim 09-24-06, 09:43 PM	The worst I have played with besides new people that don't know any better are players who make little attempt at roleplaying, don't pay attention, or insist on being difficult & "An Individual". I don't think the 1st example given is a very good singular example of bad roleplaying or a bad player.
Righter8 09-24-06, 11:50 PM	How about a bad DM (in a way they're players too)? The PCs in my group all convened on a particular city, which at the moment I can't recall what for. It was some type of backward alignment region, where all the creatures with evil tendencies were good and all lawful creatures were chaotic. But only the ones born in this land. So our individual characters get to have their time to shine as he slowly brings us together... ...At a giant conference where (as he described it) heroes of the land were meeting. He then described in great detail most of these people. My guess is they were all 20th level NPCs. The conference was then attacked by Demons or Devils and our first REAL combat had begun. (as an aside, the first and only combat up to this point was between my Barbarian and another players non-combat oriented bard. Its still makes me giggle when I think of how I described snapping his pet rabbits neck and then skinning it in front of him...) Anyway, no one in my party can even harm these interlopers. The 20th level NPCs step and save the day. We all (including the 20th level NPCs) eventually travel to where some thing was that we needed. During a rest where we circled the wagons, we get attacked by Dire Porcupines :rolleyes: . I bravely rage and charge. I get in a swipe or two before my 20th level NPC "guardian" steps in and dispatches the Dire Porcupine. Gratefully, I had taken a hit and was left with a quill sticking through my arm. My character grabs the quill and plucks it out. The DM gives me X amount of more damage and asks for a fort save, which he says, after I make it, kept me from passing out. When confronted by his 20th level NPC cleric, my character said "my wounds are what make me stonger" or some such nonsense and refused any healing from anyone other than my fellow PCs. In 3 5 hour sessions, we had one PC vs PC combat, that was stopped by an NPC, and 2 combats that the PCs were merely spectators. Roughly 90% of the game was this DM telling us what his NPCs were doing. After the 3rd session, 3 of us sent critiques of his DMing. We never saw him again. Funny thing is, the 3 who sent him critiques, didn't know that the others had sent one. He probably thought we were ganging up on him.
Krusk 09-25-06, 01:42 AM	I play with a player who has sold his past tweo characters into slavery. He does not catch on and its actually pretty funny. The most recent time it went like this. Man wants them to sign this paper or he wont let them pass. Paper says "by signing this you agree to serve in the rowing gallery, if you leave we will kill you" the entire party says we are not signing that, the guy says please. The party says no, guy says sure. then the man leaves with his contract. everyone else even said "this sounds like slavery" but the player did not catch on. it was amazing.
Solik 09-25-06, 05:12 PM	You have to have line of sight to an enemy to take a shot. If you're in a narrow hallway with characters between you and your target, you don't have line of sight and thus can't take a shot (assuming all medium).
Dag 09-25-06, 05:53 PM	Ok, so the original post was not enough to kick a player out for, that's been said to death already. However the combined annoyances this player brought to his group apparantly merited his ejection, and, according to the OP, it was a unanimous descision by all the other players. Apparantly his continued interruptions and his character's continued carelessness (Which was probably deemed to be just another way for him to annoy anyone rather than an effort on his character to help out) took a toll on the other players in the group and they decided that he was stopping them from enjoying the game and he is now out. As far as his shooting party members in the back, it seems obvious that there's a house rule in effect where if you miss your target then you have a chance to hit cover. So this guy was continuously hitting the cover (His party) it seems, and was probably getting a kick out of it because it ticked the other players off and got a rise out of them. Sounds like a player who deserved to be gone. That's enough on that topic really, I suppose you can keep nit-picking as to why they could conceivably kick this guy out, but why bother? The OP had another purpose for creating this thread, so maybe we could either get back onto that topic or begin a new thread debating whether this black market dude deserved to stay or go...
Zinegata 09-25-06, 09:51 PM	Ultimately, posts complaining about "bad" players or DMs are just seeking reaffirmation that any action they took against the "bad" player or DM was justified and that they are not alone in doing it. If you believe the action was fully justified, there's no need to post or talk about it. If you're not sure if the action was just or not, why bother doing it in the first place? Saying you just want to see "if others have been through the same situation" is pretty much the equivalent of getting the "Everyone does it, so I'm right!" justification.
makeasave 09-26-06, 12:33 AM	"If you believe the action was fully justified, there's no need to post or talk about it. If you're not sure if the action was just or not, why bother doing it in the first place?" I just wanted to hear other stories from other dms. I did not realize that my topic would be looked on as being a troll or negative. Make
Moon-Lancer 09-26-06, 05:24 AM	You have to have line of sight to an enemy to take a shot. If you're in a narrow hallway with characters between you and your target, you don't have line of sight and thus can't take a shot (assuming all medium). just becuse you occupy a 5 foot square, dosent mean your 5 feet wide at all angles. thier will be an opening. Can you prove your statement with a quote, cuz it sounds like a house rule. I would be anoyed if my dm did this too me. house rules that lean in the dms favor is bad in my opinion.
Righter8 09-26-06, 07:57 AM	If you believe the action was fully justified, there's no need to post or talk about it. If you're not sure if the action was just or not, why bother doing it in the first place? Because humans make mistakes. When agitated, we humans sometimes get too emotional, and do things that at the time seem the right course of action, but later, when tempers cool, seem extreme. If someone acts rashly, swallowing their pride, offering an apology and reinviting the offended player back into the fold may be enough to right any wrongs done. However, assuming the OP is 100% accurate in his description of the ousted player, I think he did the right thing.
DigitalMage 09-26-06, 08:51 AM	Off topic, but re the shooting someone in the back whilst they are in melee with a friend. There are two modifiers in play: The friend acting as cover (e.g. where your friend is between you and the target) which provides +4 AC to target ...and... You don't want to risk shooting your friend (where that friend is in melee with the target - though not necessarily between you and the target, in fact the target could be between you and your friend) which provides a -4 penalty to the attack roll. The first modifier cannot voluntarilt be avoided, but I interpret the rules to say that the latter one can. Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. Two characters are engaged in melee if they are enemies of each other and either threatens the other. (An unconscious or otherwise immobilized character is not considered engaged unless he is actually being attacked.) It stated that the opponent in melee with your target must be a friend, and I think the PHB actually states that you take the penalty to avoid hitting your friend. Well what if I was firing at two enemies who happened to be fighting (two orcs fighting one another)? I would rule that I would not take the penalty as I am not too bothered if I hit the other orc. Of course the rules don't actually spell this out and provide rules for what happens if you do forego this modifier!
Renvale999 09-26-06, 09:00 AM	Dude was a jerk, I'd of booted him for less...but at the same time, it doesn't sound like he was your friend OP, so that generally makes it alot easier. Generally though you can talk to friends.
sanct_arvin 09-26-06, 09:04 AM	i hate co-players that knows what happened to me even their characters are not aware of it! just like when a ogre magi in front of me and theyre not aware of it because they are in the other side of the balcony, my co-players end up by drawing their weapons. how stupid they can't act.
Surprise 09-26-06, 10:02 AM	Here's my recent horror story that ended with a player booted from the game (sci-fi)... Our group is deep in enemy territory, searching for an undercover agent fleeing a group of government-hired assasins. We reach one of the agent's contacts, who says she needs some time to find out where the agent was last seen in the city, and asks us to deliver an animal to a private zoo while we're waiting. Well, dice will be dice, and the character that was driving the vehicle got in a car accident. So what does the player decide to do? Flee the scene of the crime, top speed, rather recklessly, in a city controlled by the enemy! That was the worst decision I ever witnessed, especially considering we had authentic papers for the transport vehicle, and all of the characters had cover identities. When we eventually got caught, we did manage to bribe the officer and escape with our lives, but now our "covers" were marked and the agent's contact grew suspicious of us and refused to help us further. Sigh. Doesn't everyone know that Hit and Run is NOT the answer!?!?!:nonono: -Surprise