baddies on steroids- pumping up encounters [Archive] - Wizards Community

baddies on steroids- pumping up encounters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Templeflower
03-22-08, 05:25 PM Break out the BB King, I've got the encounter blues. I'm hoping my fellow diligent and oh so crafty DMs can give me some advice. excuse the long explanation.

I DM for a group of 4 players, 3 of whom have been playing for over a decade. Even though I've only been at this for about 1/2 a year (one of my players has been DMing nearly as long as he's been playing, and he's mentoring me) my campaign has been going well. The group dynamics are excellent, the storyline has them involved, the npcs are interesting but not overbearing. There are beautiful women, meddling gods, death cults, and ancient treasures...only one problem- the players keep making mincemeat out of my baddies!

I'm sure some of it has to do with the fact that these guys REALLY know what they're doing- they're creative thinkers, they know the rules backward and forward, and they think strategically.

I just haven't been able to find the balance between giving them a nice challenge and putting them up against something they can't beat. I tend to err on the wimpy side.

Take last night's boss as an example: The PCs had snuck into the BBEG's training facility, and came up against a blackguard and half-fiend cleric, plotting the cults next move. The party consists of a cleric, sorcerer, monk, fighter, (all level 9) and 2 npcs: a rouge, and another low level cleric. The blackguard and half fiend were both level 11. The group mowed them down in 3 rounds! ARRGGGHHH!!!

Am I just not using high enough level baddies? Should I be throwing in more low level goons as fireball bait? How can I make this more challenging for my players? I certainly don't want them getting bored by the encounters, when they're really enjoying the rest of the campaign! I'd appreciate any help or advice you can give for levelling my encounters appropriately!
Vharuck
03-22-08, 08:28 PM NPCs need to plan. Don't ever run them straight off the stat blocks. The blackguard, especially as a connisseur of dirty fights, should have some kind of protection against sneak attacks (not a rogue's sneak attack, but the kind of attack done after sneaking). The cleric should have some spells with long durations already active. Also, every BBEG needs an escape plan. A really simple one that anyone can do is a smokestick. For level 11 characters, though, a potion of invisibility isn't too unlikely.

Secondly, you're right in that guards or other fodder baddies work wonders. Their only purpose is to force the players to spend actions in dealing with them, buying the BBEGs more time to do things and more time to make a fight tough.

Thirdly, I have to ask how this scenario ever happened. How did everyone (fighter included) make good enough Hide and Move Silently checks to get past all the guards? Even if they were invisible and magically silenced, I find it hard to believe that they were able to open doors (I assume the building had some) without being noticed. Not only that, but traps are a DM's best friend. I'm not talking about tripwires that cause whirling blades to decapitate victims (lose a lot of good henchmen that way), but doors that sound an alarm when the password isn't spoken. The cleric can cast glyph of warding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glyphOfWarding.htm). It has a material component of 200 gold, but it's more than worth it.
Entropy_Judge
03-22-08, 09:03 PM Should I be throwing in more low level goons as fireball bait?

This. You had two 11th Level bad guys against 4 9th levels plus another two lower level guys. At the very least, I'd have given them 4-6 3d or 4th level Fighters or Thieves as guards.
gixanthrax
03-25-08, 12:21 PM Yeah, or set them up against 6-12 lvl 7 opponents.

allow your baddies to move freely, make bigger maps, have some archer or crossbowers in secluded places who shoot from different directions and are not directly acessible.

If you buff your baddies but continue to use too few of them, there are only two possible outcomes:

a.) the party whacks them immediatley ( four-6 guys punching a single enemy? never good)

b.) TPK . To have a chance to survive your baddy will have to kill aparty meber each round, otherrwise see point a.

Als, have your players expand resources while approaching your bbeg, have guards, alarms and so on be fun of the day.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Templeflower 03-22-08, 05:25 PM	Break out the BB King, I've got the encounter blues. I'm hoping my fellow diligent and oh so crafty DMs can give me some advice. excuse the long explanation. I DM for a group of 4 players, 3 of whom have been playing for over a decade. Even though I've only been at this for about 1/2 a year (one of my players has been DMing nearly as long as he's been playing, and he's mentoring me) my campaign has been going well. The group dynamics are excellent, the storyline has them involved, the npcs are interesting but not overbearing. There are beautiful women, meddling gods, death cults, and ancient treasures...only one problem- the players keep making mincemeat out of my baddies! I'm sure some of it has to do with the fact that these guys REALLY know what they're doing- they're creative thinkers, they know the rules backward and forward, and they think strategically. I just haven't been able to find the balance between giving them a nice challenge and putting them up against something they can't beat. I tend to err on the wimpy side. Take last night's boss as an example: The PCs had snuck into the BBEG's training facility, and came up against a blackguard and half-fiend cleric, plotting the cults next move. The party consists of a cleric, sorcerer, monk, fighter, (all level 9) and 2 npcs: a rouge, and another low level cleric. The blackguard and half fiend were both level 11. The group mowed them down in 3 rounds! ARRGGGHHH!!! Am I just not using high enough level baddies? Should I be throwing in more low level goons as fireball bait? How can I make this more challenging for my players? I certainly don't want them getting bored by the encounters, when they're really enjoying the rest of the campaign! I'd appreciate any help or advice you can give for levelling my encounters appropriately!
Vharuck 03-22-08, 08:28 PM	NPCs need to plan. Don't ever run them straight off the stat blocks. The blackguard, especially as a connisseur of dirty fights, should have some kind of protection against sneak attacks (not a rogue's sneak attack, but the kind of attack done after sneaking). The cleric should have some spells with long durations already active. Also, every BBEG needs an escape plan. A really simple one that anyone can do is a smokestick. For level 11 characters, though, a potion of invisibility isn't too unlikely. Secondly, you're right in that guards or other fodder baddies work wonders. Their only purpose is to force the players to spend actions in dealing with them, buying the BBEGs more time to do things and more time to make a fight tough. Thirdly, I have to ask how this scenario ever happened. How did everyone (fighter included) make good enough Hide and Move Silently checks to get past all the guards? Even if they were invisible and magically silenced, I find it hard to believe that they were able to open doors (I assume the building had some) without being noticed. Not only that, but traps are a DM's best friend. I'm not talking about tripwires that cause whirling blades to decapitate victims (lose a lot of good henchmen that way), but doors that sound an alarm when the password isn't spoken. The cleric can cast glyph of warding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glyphOfWarding.htm). It has a material component of 200 gold, but it's more than worth it.
Entropy_Judge 03-22-08, 09:03 PM	Should I be throwing in more low level goons as fireball bait? This. You had two 11th Level bad guys against 4 9th levels plus another two lower level guys. At the very least, I'd have given them 4-6 3d or 4th level Fighters or Thieves as guards.
gixanthrax 03-25-08, 12:21 PM	Yeah, or set them up against 6-12 lvl 7 opponents. allow your baddies to move freely, make bigger maps, have some archer or crossbowers in secluded places who shoot from different directions and are not directly acessible. If you buff your baddies but continue to use too few of them, there are only two possible outcomes: a.) the party whacks them immediatley ( four-6 guys punching a single enemy? never good) b.) TPK . To have a chance to survive your baddy will have to kill aparty meber each round, otherrwise see point a. Als, have your players expand resources while approaching your bbeg, have guards, alarms and so on be fun of the day.