Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Indianaman79 06-27-07, 06:23 PM	My players have 1 bag of holding type 3 each (4 players in party). They keep putting all their gold and copper in there, but how many coins (copper, silver, gold, platinum) can types 1-5 hold?
Dragonsblood 06-27-07, 06:31 PM	50 coins is 1 pound.
Tekumel 06-27-07, 06:31 PM	My players have 1 bag of holding type 3 each (4 players in party). They keep putting all their gold and copper in there, but how many coins (copper, silver, gold, platinum) can types 1-5 hold? The standard coin weighs about a third of an ounce (fifty to the pound). That means a Type III Bag of holding could hold, by weight, 50,000 coins of whatever denomination. Personally, looking at the volume limit, I think the weight is more likely to be hit first.
Bhaelfur 06-27-07, 06:33 PM	Alright, 1 pound of gold is 50 gps. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but 50 coins is one pound, no matter if they are copper, silver, etc.) Type 1 holds 250 lbs; 12,500 coins. Type 2 holds 500 lbs; 25,000 coins. Type 3 holds 1,000 lbs; 50,000 coins. Type 4 holds 1,500 lbs; 75,000 coins. I don't see a type 5 in my DMG, but I'm guessing it would hold 2,000 pounds, and would hold 100,000 coins.
Indianaman79 06-27-07, 06:41 PM	gold weighs more than silver and copper, but thats just being picky
Dragonsblood 06-27-07, 06:44 PM	gold weighs more than silver and copper, but thats just being picky Unless the coins are different sizes. All coins weigh the same in DnD for simplicity.
Mock26 06-27-07, 08:59 PM	That means a Type III Bag of holding could hold, by weight, 50,000 coins of whatever denomination. Personally, looking at the volume limit, I think the weight is more likely to be hit first. Anyone know the standard size of a D&D coin?
Palin the Wizard 06-27-07, 09:16 PM	Just go with weight.
Mock26 06-27-07, 09:28 PM	Just go with weight. Why? The volume limit should also be followed, else why include it in the item description?
Burgundy Lotus 06-27-07, 09:40 PM	Why? The volume limit should also be followed, else why include it in the item description? 1 3/8 of an inch across according to the PHB, not sure how thick, though 3/16th of an inch seems good.
Candin 06-27-07, 09:56 PM	Each coin, assuming they're perfect cylinders (which they're not) and using burgundy's numbers, will have an area of approximately .0001611212459 cubic feet, with a radius of 11/192 feet and a height of 1/64 feet. Which means, a type one bag of holding will hold, not accounting weight, 186,195 (rounded down) coins. A type two holds 434,455 coins. A type three holds 930,0975 coins. A type four holds 1,551,626 coins. Bear in mind these numbers don't account for the fact that the coins are cylindrical and don't evenly fit next to each other. It assumes that every space within the bag is occupied, which we know isn't the case, since putting circles side by side will leave spaces between them. This space could be accounted for by determining how many coins could be arrayed across the length and width of the bag, and how many could be stacked on top to the maximum height. Of course, this procedure assumes that the space within the bag is cubic, when in all probability it's most likely to be spherical. Since doing the math for a spherical volume requires a lot of calculus or at the very least a couple dozen pages of pencil work, I think you should take the above suggestion of Palin the wizard and: Just go with weight. I think the reason they have the volume restrictions is so you don't put a 50 foot wooden ladder into a type 1 bag, or throw all the prisoners of the evil wizard in your bag while you escape his dungeons. After all, those pesky prisoners are just cannon fodder.
Dei 06-27-07, 10:02 PM	A gold piece in the PHB is 3cm across and roughly .7cm thick giving each a volume of 4.95 cubic centimetres. In each cubic foot there are 28,317 cubic centimetres meaning every cubic foot of space can hold 5720 coins(rounded down). Therefore by volume each bag can hold: Type 1: 171,618 Type 2: 400,442 Type 3: 858,090 Type 4: 1,430,151 From these numbers the weight limit of a bag will be reached long before volume becomes an issue.
Candin 06-27-07, 10:18 PM	I didn't know the PHB defined the actual dimensions (: Go with Dei's then. I based my calculations on what I figured a coin would be sized to. I do know that the PHB outlines that merchants won't deal with hundreds of thousands of gold coins, but rather expensive items are traded with bars of gold and letters of credit. So coinage isn't much of an issue. I guess bottom line, if you want it to be more realistic, have them buy gems with their gold and let them trade at the gem's full price.
Mock26 06-27-07, 10:23 PM	I admit that I was wrong on thinking the volume limit would be met before the weight limit. However, I still think that the volume AND the weight limit should always be taken into consideration when putting anything into a bag of holding. For my calculations I assumed that each coin was considered square for purposes taking up space. Based on the above dimensions I got roughly 4,844.16 coins in 1 cubic foot, which relates to 1,211,040 coins in 250 cubic feet. Of course, this is assuming that the coins are all neatly stacked. Somewhere I have an old 1st/2nd edition Dragon Magazine article where the author, if I remember correctly, actually tossed coins into a box to see how much space they took up when thrown loosely. I'll dig up that article and see what he suggests as to how many loose coins can be held in a given amount of space.
Candin 06-27-07, 10:34 PM	You can't help but assume that the coins will stack neatly over time, similar to the way cards will line up over time after being randomly moved around.
Ananvil 06-27-07, 10:40 PM	I assume that being that the bag is magical, that it automatically arranges the coins in the most efficient manner. Assuming that the space it provides is actually shaped at all. It could easily be a eight dimensional space, where all volume is always taken advantage of, with something with a 1 meter cubic volume, but highly erratic shape only takes up, 1 meter of cubic volume. /silly
Mock26 06-27-07, 10:55 PM	You can't help but assume that the coins will stack neatly over time, similar to the way cards will line up over time after being randomly moved around. In this article, I think I remember the author saying that he shook the box repeatedly so that the coins would settle. And, the coins really wouldn't stack neatly over time. I've been keeping a massive 20-gallon coin jar for over a decade now, and while the coins have settled so that they are all lying flat, they are far from being stacked neatly.
Dei 06-27-07, 11:11 PM	I didn't know the PHB defined the actual dimensions (: Well it doesn't define them but it does give a picture of one with the caption (actual size) on page 168. I got the diametre from that and estimated a thickness based off a British Pound Coin though on thinking about it most old coins were actually quite slim meaning you could fit a lot more coins into the same volume but as has been pointed out this is more or less a moot point.
Saberus 06-28-07, 12:28 AM	Each coin, assuming they're perfect cylinders (which they're not) and using burgundy's numbers, will have an area of approximately .0001611212459 cubic feet, with a radius of 11/192 feet and a height of 1/64 feet. Which means, a type one bag of holding will hold, not accounting weight, 186,195 (rounded down) coins. A type two holds 434,455 coins. A type three holds 930,0975 coins. A type four holds 1,551,626 coins. Bear in mind these numbers don't account for the fact that the coins are cylindrical and don't evenly fit next to each other. It assumes that every space within the bag is occupied, which we know isn't the case, since putting circles side by side will leave spaces between them. This space could be accounted for by determining how many coins could be arrayed across the length and width of the bag, and how many could be stacked on top to the maximum height. Of course, this procedure assumes that the space within the bag is cubic, when in all probability it's most likely to be spherical. Since doing the math for a spherical volume requires a lot of calculus or at the very least a couple dozen pages of pencil work, I think you should take the above suggestion of Palin the wizard and: Just go with weight. I think the reason they have the volume restrictions is so you don't put a 50 foot wooden ladder into a type 1 bag, or throw all the prisoners of the evil wizard in your bag while you escape his dungeons. After all, those pesky prisoners are just cannon fodder. You are trying to apply third dimensional geometric logic to a non-dimensional space. The volume restrictions would only apply to the objects themselves (and the infintesimal amount of air that clings to them via gravity.)and a volume of air equvalent to the remaining volume. The air volume is displaced automatically, and is only used to determine how long a breathing creature can wait inside before having to hold it's breath. Ananvil's explaination works, as it accounts for our limited scope of spacial volumes. I assume that being that the bag is magical, that it automatically arranges the coins in the most efficient manner. Assuming that the space it provides is actually shaped at all. It could easily be a eight dimensional space, where all volume is always taken advantage of, with something with a 1 meter cubic volume, but highly erratic shape only takes up, 1 meter of cubic volume. /silly
Mock26 06-28-07, 02:57 AM	The article from Dragon magazine that I mentioned up above is from the December 1983 issue and was written by David F. Godwin. He had used a diameter of 1 1/2 inches, but that really isn't all important. By his calculations and experimentation loose coins take up 110% as much room as stacked coins. When determining the volume taken up by a coin, though, you have to treat the coin as being rectangular because "you can't put anything...in the little empty spaces left because of the roundness of coins." This is based on the assumption of stacking the coins in nice neat piles. Either way it doesn't matter as the weight limit will be exceeded long before the volume limit. But, I've got this odd fascination with such minute details of the game and love to share it with people. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john. PS Based on a coin that is 1 1/2" in diameter and a thickness of 0.1" (which he came up with based on an average of sorts based on the specific gravity of platinum, gold, silver, copper, and a US one dollar coin) you get roughly 4 coins per cubic inch if stored loosely. This equates to 4.4 coins per cubic inch when stacked neatly.
Ayra 06-28-07, 04:05 AM	Dimensions are definitely only used to define what fits in the bag in the first place. It *is* nice to know how much would exactly fit in the bag, but if you have to whip out your calculator every time the PC's find new treasure to put in there it gets boring really fast. At least for me >.>' Additionally I don't think the bag of holding is one specific space. Maybe every time you throw a single item in there, it makes a space within the bag that exactly fits that item (so there is one space for each coin, exactly being shaped like the coin). This would be rational, because that way everything is more or less organized as you can simply grab hold of everything you require without actually searching the bag for it and immediately get what you want. Depends on the DM's interpretation, but I do think this is the most advantageous one.
Mock26 06-28-07, 04:42 AM	Fortunately, I have some tiny notes in my DMG next to bags of holding and portable holes that list how many coins, be it stacked or loose, each can hold. And, on one occasion, the group did fill up an entire portable hole with loose coins! Since I had done my calculations years ago it I didn't have to waste any time (though calculating it to begin with was fun for me!). I just looked it up in my DMG! And in case you'e curious, the volume of a portable hole (6' diameter and 10' deep) is 1131.4 cubic feet. Using my above numbers that equates to roughly 7,820,236.8 loose coins. I imagine that for some players that could be a very important number that they would want to write down on their character sheet!
Jagyr Ebonwood 06-28-07, 11:09 AM	I may be in the minority here, but in my campaigns, bahs of holding basically ignore coinage, ala CRPGs. It wastes valuable gaming time trying to calculate how much stuff you can fit into various containers, IMO. As long as a PC is carrying an extra-dimensional space around with them, I allow them to carry as many GP as they have. Makes things easier. Less "realistic", but easier. YMMV.
Paladin_Hiroshi 07-01-07, 07:57 PM	I may be in the minority here, but in my campaigns, bahs of holding basically ignore coinage, ala CRPGs. It wastes valuable gaming time trying to calculate how much stuff you can fit into various containers, IMO. As long as a PC is carrying an extra-dimensional space around with them, I allow them to carry as many GP as they have. Makes things easier. Less "realistic", but easier. YMMV. QFT, this is what I do, as well as several people who DM for me do.
mtbOgre 07-02-07, 02:59 AM	I may be in the minority here, but in my campaigns, bahs of holding basically ignore coinage, ala CRPGs. It wastes valuable gaming time trying to calculate how much stuff you can fit into various containers, IMO. As long as a PC is carrying an extra-dimensional space around with them, I allow them to carry as many GP as they have. Makes things easier. Less "realistic", but easier. Well since the number of coins which the bag will hold is over 800,000 I don't think this will ever be an issue with my players. They quickly convert coinage into more dense forms of wealth such as magic/ gems and jewelry, or the old standbys, wine women and song.
Palin the Wizard 07-02-07, 09:14 AM	Well since the number of coins which the bag will hold is over 800,000 I don't think this will ever be an issue with my players. They quickly convert coinage into more dense forms of wealth such as magic/ gems and jewelry, or the old standbys, wine women and song. You're disregarding weight. The weight limit will be reached far before the volume limit. Besides, gold is valued by weight, not by the number of coins.