balanced character class? [Archive] - Wizards Community

balanced character class? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dick Dastardly
03-05-06, 08:36 PM i was thinking of adding this character class to one of my campaigns. what you guys think?

too much hit dice?

DeathSeeker

Alignment

Neutral

Hit Die

d12

Class Skills

The class skill for a death seeker and the key abilities for each are: Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Survival (Wis) and Swim (Str).

Skill Points at 1st Level

(4 + Int modifier) x 4

Skill Points at Each Additional Level

4 + Int modifier

Table: The Death Seeker
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Cruel Damage 1/day
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Toughness
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 -
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Cruel Damage 2/day, Toughness
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Improved Cruel Damage
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Toughness
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Cruel Damage 3/day
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Toughness
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 -
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Cruel Damage 4/day, Toughness
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Toughness
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Cruel Damage 5/day
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Toughness
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Fast Healing 5
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +10 Cruel Damage 6/day, Toughness
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Toughness
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Greater cruel damage
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Cruel Damage 7/day
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Toughness,

Class Features

All of the following are class features of the Death Seeker.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency

A death seeker is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. A death seeker must have a large quatity of flesh availiable for his rituals at all times this means they may not wear armour of any kind (except bracers gloves etc) without losing the ability to use cruel damage.

Toughness

At 2nd level and every two levels thereafter, a death seeker gets the toughness feat as a bonus feat.

Cruel Damage (Su)

A death seeker has the ability to inflict damage upon him self in order to damage his foes. A death seeker may roll up to as many d12 as he has hit die as a full round action that does not provoke an attack of opprotunity the deathseeker immediaty takes this damage. On his next turn, he may make a touch attack against one of his opponents, if it is successful, the opponent takes the same amount of damage the death seeker inflicted upon himself. There is a saving throw for half damage of DC 10 + con mod + half death seeker lvls. A death seeker may not use this attack in negative hit points.

This attack bypasses all forms of damage reduction, resistance or spell resistance. This attack has no miss chance against incorporeal creatures and deals normal damage to them.

This attack is usable once per day at first level and once more every 3 levels after that (4th, 7th, 10th etc.).

Improved Cruel Damage (Su)

This funtions just like cruel damage except that it allows a ranged touch attack to be made instead it has a range of 100ft.

Greater Cruel Damage (Su)

This functions just as improved cruel damage only the damage dealt to the opponent is double what the death seeker dealt to him self and range is increased to 150ft.

Fast Healing 5 (Ex)

At 15th level, a death seeker gets the benefits of fast healing 5, but this only heals damage the death seeker inflicts upon himself through his cruel damage attack.
SokenzanMarauder
03-05-06, 09:54 PM I'm assuming this is a prestige class as it gets no bonus feats.

The only thing I can see that is overpowered would be the following:

"Greater Cruel Damage (Su)

This functions just as improved cruel damage only the damage dealt to the opponent is double what the death seeker dealt to him self and range is increased to 150ft.

Mighty Cruel Damage (Su)

This functions just as greater cruel damage only damage dealt to the opponent is triple what the death seeker inflicted upon himself and requires no attack roll this damage is automatically dealt.

The death seeker may also use this ability to damage as many opponents as he has HD, but when used this way, the opponents take the same amount of damage the death seeker inflicted upon himself."

Double and triple damage is INSANE, as is the Mighty Cruel Damage effect of dealing it to multiple opponents. I can see a player with rings of regeneration walking through BBEGs like a knife through butter. Fix those up and it wouldn't be too bad.

-Gene
20goingon1232
03-05-06, 10:06 PM It is a base class: 20 levels, no pre-requisites.

What sort of save does Cruel Touch have (Fort, Ref?)? And what is the consequence of a successful save (half damage? negates?)?

Triple damage is a bit off. Twice at most at very high levels.
Dick Dastardly
03-07-06, 01:02 PM thaks guys,
ill get rid of trippple damage, and should i put double damage in at 18th level.

cruel touch has a fort save for half damage. too much?

does it fit a prestige class more than a core class? i can easily tweak it to be so. might balance it out more, if i put a hard to achieve prequisite on it.
Illion the Red
03-07-06, 01:43 PM iA death seeker is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. A death seeker must have a large quatity of flesh availiable for his rituals at all times this means they may not wear armour of any kind (except bracers gloves etc) without losing the ability to use cruel damage.

It took me a few times reading this to understand (IF I have it right) that this means that the Death Seeker needs to have exposed skin to use his abilities. Is this just flavor or would this preclude the wearing of most clothing? This has the potential to severly restrict the available magic items for the character. For example, no robe, vest, cloak, vestment, or similar items.

Overall, the class is interesting, but the Cruel Damage (I'd call it some sort of sacrafice, but that's just me) ability seems too "easy" to kill with. It does take two rounds to use, but it bypasses SR, DR, and well, everything else. I could see a Character with this waltzing around with a ring of invisibility and dropping Archmages without a second thought.
Board_Rider
03-07-06, 08:40 PM This class isn't too bad but here are some things that I would change.
Name - Death Seeker to Sacrificed

1. Drop the Greater Cruel Damage ability. It is arbitrary and far too powerful. At 18th level my Sacrificer will be able to 18d12 (108 damage avg. [6*18] on the roll so, 216 points of damage from a comfy 150' away) and that my friend is getting way to silly. On top of that I can do it six more times. Hit point problem? I take the Leadership feat and have my Cleric cohort keep healing me. If not, I simply won't get that many uses of this feature anyways.
Fix: Cap the damage to half of the Character Level. So at 20th level a Sacrifier can only do 10d12 (Fort half, DC10+CLevel+Cha modifier) with his Cruel/Improved Cruel Damage .
2. The ability to inflict Cruel damage that many times is a bit too much. As I wrote prior, 7 times a day is far too much. Go for 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th = 4/day.
3. Give Toughness as a Feat at 1st, 3rd, 5th, 8th and 10th level only = 15hp bonus is one use of a base Cruel Damage .
4. At 2nd, 7th and 11th level allow the Sacrificer DR 1/- from outside attacks (meaning that his self inflicted damage from the Cruel ability bypasses this DR)
5. Scarred Sacrificer - At 6th level your self inflicted scars become so apparent that you suffer when making allies but scare those who you wish to scare. Game Terms - +2 to Intimidate, -2 to Diplomacy. Also a Scarred Sacrificer at 6th level may enact a Fear Aura as a free action in a 30' burst. Those subject to the Aura must be able to see normally and be able to see the Sacrificer. This is usable once per day at 6th and 2 times per day at 12th level. DC10+Cha Modifier
6. Harm Attunement - At 10th level a Sacrificer gets a +1 to any save that causes hit point loss or energy drain. Furthermore, any inflict spell only does half damage. A successful Will save negates all damage.
Greater Harm Attunement – The Sacrificer no longer is harmed by inflict magic or energy drain spells at 19th level. Additionally, a Sacrificer no longer is harmed by sneak attacks and the skin of the Sacrificer and grants acid resistance 5.
7. Change the Fast Healing and make it earlier.
Fix: At 13th level a Sacrificer can fast heal 5 himself 1/day. The effect is Constitution based and is added to the base 5. This equates to 5+Con Modifier and lasts for the Sacrificer's Charisma modifier in rounds.
So a Sacrificer with a 14 Con and a 14 could fast heal 7 points of damage for 2 rounds.
8. Scab Skin – The repeated cuts have helped the skin of the Sacrificer in so much as it has made it thicker. At 16th level a Sacrificer gains +2 natural armor, this bonus increases to +4 at 20th level.

I would also grant medium armor. If I have time I will probably list this (or you can) on the Classes board.

Hope that helps ya.

Be :cool:,
BR
Board_Rider
03-08-06, 12:59 PM I formatted this class here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8645425#post8645425) if you want to look at it.
orionm42
03-08-06, 02:08 PM A death seeker is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. A death seeker must have a large quatity of flesh availiable for his rituals at all times this means they may not wear armour of any kind (except bracers gloves etc) without losing the ability to use cruel damage.

I agree with Illion. I think this is poorly worded in that I am not sure what "needing a large quantity of flesh" has to do with not being able to wear armor. Does the seeker consume his own flesh when he makes a cruel damage attack? Additionally, if the class' key attack is a touch attack and the PC must have exposed skin, why can the class have covered hands (gloves, etc.)? Seems to lack internal consistency.

A death seeker may not use this attack in negative hit points.

I think you need to clarify here. What if the damage dealt would kill him or put him into negative hit points (even if he did not start off in the negatives)? Can he use it then?

Edit: One way to help balance the class for higher levels is to not allow the ability to be used if the damage dealt would kill the character (this might prevent the easy killing high CR monsters - see discussion below).

This attack bypasses all forms of damage reduction, resistance or spell resistance. This attack has no miss chance against incorporeal creatures and deals normal damage to them.

Not crazy about this. As others have mentioned, even double damage would enable a high level seeker to kill a Balor in two rounds at most (assuming the Balor fails each save). And at range!!

Just my 2cp.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dick Dastardly 03-05-06, 08:36 PM	i was thinking of adding this character class to one of my campaigns. what you guys think? too much hit dice? DeathSeeker Alignment Neutral Hit Die d12 Class Skills The class skill for a death seeker and the key abilities for each are: Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Survival (Wis) and Swim (Str). Skill Points at 1st Level (4 + Int modifier) x 4 Skill Points at Each Additional Level 4 + Int modifier Table: The Death Seeker Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special 1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Cruel Damage 1/day 2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Toughness 3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 - 4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Cruel Damage 2/day, Toughness 5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Improved Cruel Damage 6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Toughness 7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Cruel Damage 3/day 8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Toughness 9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 - 10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Cruel Damage 4/day, Toughness 11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Toughness 13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Cruel Damage 5/day 14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Toughness 15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Fast Healing 5 16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +10 Cruel Damage 6/day, Toughness 17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Toughness 18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Greater cruel damage 19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Cruel Damage 7/day 20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Toughness, Class Features All of the following are class features of the Death Seeker. Weapon and Armor Proficiency A death seeker is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. A death seeker must have a large quatity of flesh availiable for his rituals at all times this means they may not wear armour of any kind (except bracers gloves etc) without losing the ability to use cruel damage. Toughness At 2nd level and every two levels thereafter, a death seeker gets the toughness feat as a bonus feat. Cruel Damage (Su) A death seeker has the ability to inflict damage upon him self in order to damage his foes. A death seeker may roll up to as many d12 as he has hit die as a full round action that does not provoke an attack of opprotunity the deathseeker immediaty takes this damage. On his next turn, he may make a touch attack against one of his opponents, if it is successful, the opponent takes the same amount of damage the death seeker inflicted upon himself. There is a saving throw for half damage of DC 10 + con mod + half death seeker lvls. A death seeker may not use this attack in negative hit points. This attack bypasses all forms of damage reduction, resistance or spell resistance. This attack has no miss chance against incorporeal creatures and deals normal damage to them. This attack is usable once per day at first level and once more every 3 levels after that (4th, 7th, 10th etc.). Improved Cruel Damage (Su) This funtions just like cruel damage except that it allows a ranged touch attack to be made instead it has a range of 100ft. Greater Cruel Damage (Su) This functions just as improved cruel damage only the damage dealt to the opponent is double what the death seeker dealt to him self and range is increased to 150ft. Fast Healing 5 (Ex) At 15th level, a death seeker gets the benefits of fast healing 5, but this only heals damage the death seeker inflicts upon himself through his cruel damage attack.
SokenzanMarauder 03-05-06, 09:54 PM	I'm assuming this is a prestige class as it gets no bonus feats. The only thing I can see that is overpowered would be the following: "Greater Cruel Damage (Su) This functions just as improved cruel damage only the damage dealt to the opponent is double what the death seeker dealt to him self and range is increased to 150ft. Mighty Cruel Damage (Su) This functions just as greater cruel damage only damage dealt to the opponent is triple what the death seeker inflicted upon himself and requires no attack roll this damage is automatically dealt. The death seeker may also use this ability to damage as many opponents as he has HD, but when used this way, the opponents take the same amount of damage the death seeker inflicted upon himself." Double and triple damage is INSANE, as is the Mighty Cruel Damage effect of dealing it to multiple opponents. I can see a player with rings of regeneration walking through BBEGs like a knife through butter. Fix those up and it wouldn't be too bad. -Gene
20goingon1232 03-05-06, 10:06 PM	It is a base class: 20 levels, no pre-requisites. What sort of save does Cruel Touch have (Fort, Ref?)? And what is the consequence of a successful save (half damage? negates?)? Triple damage is a bit off. Twice at most at very high levels.
Dick Dastardly 03-07-06, 01:02 PM	thaks guys, ill get rid of trippple damage, and should i put double damage in at 18th level. cruel touch has a fort save for half damage. too much? does it fit a prestige class more than a core class? i can easily tweak it to be so. might balance it out more, if i put a hard to achieve prequisite on it.
Illion the Red 03-07-06, 01:43 PM	iA death seeker is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. A death seeker must have a large quatity of flesh availiable for his rituals at all times this means they may not wear armour of any kind (except bracers gloves etc) without losing the ability to use cruel damage. It took me a few times reading this to understand (IF I have it right) that this means that the Death Seeker needs to have exposed skin to use his abilities. Is this just flavor or would this preclude the wearing of most clothing? This has the potential to severly restrict the available magic items for the character. For example, no robe, vest, cloak, vestment, or similar items. Overall, the class is interesting, but the Cruel Damage (I'd call it some sort of sacrafice, but that's just me) ability seems too "easy" to kill with. It does take two rounds to use, but it bypasses SR, DR, and well, everything else. I could see a Character with this waltzing around with a ring of invisibility and dropping Archmages without a second thought.
Board_Rider 03-07-06, 08:40 PM	This class isn't too bad but here are some things that I would change. Name - Death Seeker to Sacrificed 1. Drop the Greater Cruel Damage ability. It is arbitrary and far too powerful. At 18th level my Sacrificer will be able to 18d12 (108 damage avg. [6*18] on the roll so, 216 points of damage from a comfy 150' away) and that my friend is getting way to silly. On top of that I can do it six more times. Hit point problem? I take the Leadership feat and have my Cleric cohort keep healing me. If not, I simply won't get that many uses of this feature anyways. Fix: Cap the damage to half of the Character Level. So at 20th level a Sacrifier can only do 10d12 (Fort half, DC10+CLevel+Cha modifier) with his Cruel/Improved Cruel Damage . 2. The ability to inflict Cruel damage that many times is a bit too much. As I wrote prior, 7 times a day is far too much. Go for 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th = 4/day. 3. Give Toughness as a Feat at 1st, 3rd, 5th, 8th and 10th level only = 15hp bonus is one use of a base Cruel Damage . 4. At 2nd, 7th and 11th level allow the Sacrificer DR 1/- from outside attacks (meaning that his self inflicted damage from the Cruel ability bypasses this DR) 5. Scarred Sacrificer - At 6th level your self inflicted scars become so apparent that you suffer when making allies but scare those who you wish to scare. Game Terms - +2 to Intimidate, -2 to Diplomacy. Also a Scarred Sacrificer at 6th level may enact a Fear Aura as a free action in a 30' burst. Those subject to the Aura must be able to see normally and be able to see the Sacrificer. This is usable once per day at 6th and 2 times per day at 12th level. DC10+Cha Modifier 6. Harm Attunement - At 10th level a Sacrificer gets a +1 to any save that causes hit point loss or energy drain. Furthermore, any inflict spell only does half damage. A successful Will save negates all damage. Greater Harm Attunement – The Sacrificer no longer is harmed by inflict magic or energy drain spells at 19th level. Additionally, a Sacrificer no longer is harmed by sneak attacks and the skin of the Sacrificer and grants acid resistance 5. 7. Change the Fast Healing and make it earlier. Fix: At 13th level a Sacrificer can fast heal 5 himself 1/day. The effect is Constitution based and is added to the base 5. This equates to 5+Con Modifier and lasts for the Sacrificer's Charisma modifier in rounds. So a Sacrificer with a 14 Con and a 14 could fast heal 7 points of damage for 2 rounds. 8. Scab Skin – The repeated cuts have helped the skin of the Sacrificer in so much as it has made it thicker. At 16th level a Sacrificer gains +2 natural armor, this bonus increases to +4 at 20th level. I would also grant medium armor. If I have time I will probably list this (or you can) on the Classes board. Hope that helps ya. Be :cool:, BR
Board_Rider 03-08-06, 12:59 PM	I formatted this class here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8645425#post8645425) if you want to look at it.
orionm42 03-08-06, 02:08 PM	A death seeker is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. A death seeker must have a large quatity of flesh availiable for his rituals at all times this means they may not wear armour of any kind (except bracers gloves etc) without losing the ability to use cruel damage. I agree with Illion. I think this is poorly worded in that I am not sure what "needing a large quantity of flesh" has to do with not being able to wear armor. Does the seeker consume his own flesh when he makes a cruel damage attack? Additionally, if the class' key attack is a touch attack and the PC must have exposed skin, why can the class have covered hands (gloves, etc.)? Seems to lack internal consistency. A death seeker may not use this attack in negative hit points. I think you need to clarify here. What if the damage dealt would kill him or put him into negative hit points (even if he did not start off in the negatives)? Can he use it then? Edit: One way to help balance the class for higher levels is to not allow the ability to be used if the damage dealt would kill the character (this might prevent the easy killing high CR monsters - see discussion below). This attack bypasses all forms of damage reduction, resistance or spell resistance. This attack has no miss chance against incorporeal creatures and deals normal damage to them. Not crazy about this. As others have mentioned, even double damage would enable a high level seeker to kill a Balor in two rounds at most (assuming the Balor fails each save). And at range!! Just my 2cp.