Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fogel the Magical 01-05-05, 09:38 PM	How on Earth do you tell someone that they can't be a superbeast of some sort or that their magical items that you accidently let them have, have to be rid of? Players love great things happening to their characters but the "great things" are giving me a headache and are hard to keep up with. Anyone? Help! :weep:
Dash Branaghan 01-05-05, 09:44 PM	Just tell them. As DM, you are effectively God, and God can tell them what their options are. It's that simple. It is less simple to retract your own mistakes in the game in such a way that the player isn't upset. Yep, if you granted them a +3 Keen Vorpal Longsword at first level, it's a mistake, but it's YOUR mistake. One way to deal with it is talk to the player. If the player is somewhat mature, they will understand that the weapon is over-powered for them and will accept that you made a mistake and need to remedy it. Barring that, Ethereal Filcher's, high level rogues, etc can arrange for items to disappear. Improved Disarm allows for items to be taken at a -4 penalty, including rings (though you also have to be grappling the opponent at the same time). Rust monsters make metal objects dinner. Dash
SmiloDan 01-05-05, 09:52 PM	Sunder.
gerald_toronto 01-05-05, 11:48 PM	Make the Magic item you gave them more powerful. Yup, this is the best way for you to handle it. Have them discover another power. Then, you can do one of two things...make it an intelligent item or have them discover the curse which falls upon the owner of the item. As an intelligent item it will become a curse anyway, if you play it right. Then you have the intelligent creatures like mind flayers and other such creatures start chasing him for this powerful item. And in the big combats, every creature in the fight targets him, because he's got the item. If you're feeling nice, they can leave him once he's unconcious and they've got the item so his party can heal him back up again. But this way, the item, instead of being taken by a DM who doesn't want him to have it, or through a discussion where you admit to making a mistake in giving it to him, you change it into the focus of an entire sub-plot (or main plot) so the entire event becomes an adventure. Much more satisfying for all in involved. All you have to do is ratchet up the ELs a little.
Decepticons 01-06-05, 12:34 AM	Powerful items draw interest, and sometimes its of the negative variety. If the PC's have an item (especially one that would attract a lot of visible attention, or one they've been flashing in the open), that they are obviouslly not capable of defending, someone is going to try and take it from them through deception or violence. The good thing is you can use this to advance a campaign. The player (party) aquires a (insert overly powerful thing here). The local thieves guild finds out about it, along with two powerful wizards. Each of these factions tries to aquire the item. One wizard bluntly tells them that they should hand it over for safekeeping (or else). The other wizard tells the characters he'll pay them (half) of what the item is worth in scrolls. The theives guild just tries to steal it...by any means neccissary. This could give you a variety of scenarios, including one in which faction A gains the item from the players and faction B helps assist the character getting it back (then steals it for themselves?) If you're in a wilderness setting, you can do all kinds of things a well. The party passes the tower of a powerful wizard who scrys on them as they go by and spots the (insert overly powerful thing here). He sends his familiar to grab it. The party spots the familiar and chases it back to the tower just in time to see the wizard plane shift away with their (insert overly powerful thing here). Now you've set up a possible long-term BBEG for the PC's to chase around to get their (insert overly powerful thing here) back.
TheDoomBringer 01-06-05, 02:56 AM	Any specifics you can tell us?
Draco Strang 01-06-05, 09:57 AM	Steal it. Plain and simple, have a group of higher level NPC's just jack the thing from him, no questions asked. After all, if your heroes wanted something from a level 1 expert, and they pinned him and took it, would he be able to do anything about it? No, so there's no reason the 9th level players (or whatever) can't just be ridden into the ground by the 20th level half-fiend, half-tarrasque, half-gnome wizard/rogue/warlock, or whatever obscene munchkin characters you want to throw at them. After all, if it's insanely powerful, isn't it desirable by everyone?
Lincoln Hills 01-06-05, 05:49 PM	How on Earth do you tell someone that they can't be a superbeast of some sort... As for telling your player that his new character can't be a "superbeast," the easiest way to do that is to make it a universal house rule: no LA above 0 (or +1, or whatever). Make sure the players know that you've instituted the rule well before they start rolling up a new character, so that they don't feel singled out or put upon. If you've already allowed a superbeast, well - I'm afraid your options are limited. An inventive enemy may cast polymorph other ("Form of... a human!") followed by bestow curse ("From this day forward your shape can never be altered!"), but most parties will be able to undo such a curse eventual-like. Slain characters are usually hit with resurrection rather than reincarnation, although if you and the player come to a prior agreement, reincarnation is a valid in-game way to keep a character while reducing his power level. There are other methods, depending on the nature of the beast. (Har!) Let's say your gamer wants to run a drow (ho hum). He's got a hat of disguise and thinks that lets him out of all the negative consequences of such a racial choice. He'll learn better once he encounters elven hunting dogs trained to 'point' for dark elves, the Morning Gate's localized dispel magic field, and the local high priest's Sense Motive score of +17... However, these are all role-playing considerations and might not stop the most staunch power-gamer types.
Kesht 01-06-05, 06:20 PM	Well Mr. Fogel, I happen to have had similar experiences with some players of mine. 1st - Regarding not allowing super beasts. I had a player who (no kidding) wanted to start the game as a Lvl 5 witch / weretiger / faerie. What a pain in the rear. To make matters worse, it was a good buddy's girlfriend. :tantrum: To make a long and frustrating story short, the group broke up, because everyone was focused gathering as much power as possible. People who whine/beg/demand to be a template or race with a +LA tend to make for very immature players. If so, there isn't much hope other than to find another group. However, if I am wrong, and you have reasonable people I would suggest the following. Let them know that you don't want to run a game of "superheroes-repeatedly-smash-bag-guys-into-pudding" Let them know that you want to play "Slightly-above-average-people-risk-their-lives-together-and-BECOME-superheroes." While D&D may not quite be seen as a traditional superheroe game and my metaphor is a little obscure, the point is still valid. Most DM's want to run a game about the PC's risking their lives and fighting by the seat of their pants and feeling lucky + proud to be the heroes they are (once the game is old enough.) Some Players like to just beat the crap out of stuff and feel powerful. If your group can handle it, talk to them about what sort of game you want to run. Try to give them the vision of the game you want to run. Let them know exactly what kinds of things you picture when you set about planning/running a game. Hopefully the vision will catch, and they'll be ready to go for it. As far as magic items, the other folks here before me are giving you pretty much the standard answers, but be warned. If the player(s) in question is(are) very immature, they may not react well to the loss of a powerful magic item no matter how you story(sugur)-coat it. I've given out some items I shouldn't myself, and the best advice I can give to you if you can't get them to voluntarily give it up or accept the loss, is to just try to deal with it. Don't make it totaly useless, but don't let it dominate the game either. If you need help with that, let us know the details of the item(s) given, and we'll try to help come up with some ideas for you. Good luck! :cool:
Jack Greylock 01-06-05, 06:58 PM	For the items may I suggest such DM favorites as: Rust Monsters: great for magical armor or weapons Destrachen (sp?): Creatures who can choose to destroy either wood, glass, metal, cloth, stone, or flesh. A group of them can quickly reduce a parties entire equipment list to dust. Here is a tricky way I stumbled onto, to make the loss of a characters equipment another players fault instead of yours: If there is a magic user in the party with the Disentegrate spell but not Transmute rock to mud or stone shape. Have the player with the far too powerfull gear get encased in stone (2 stone giant sorcerers casting Stone to Mud and then Mud to Stone on the celling above the character works great). Then the choice is for the player to either die or the party spell caster to cast Disentegrate on the stone around the player. This specifically won't effect the characters flesh, but each and every piece of equipment he has will have to make a saving throw (and trust me even magical equipment have lousy saving throws). This method generally leaves the character standing around naked and striped of all equipment but also happy to be alive. Though this situation is not the easiest to set up, it happened in my campaign and I got to say I couldn't have been happier, or have worked harder to keep from laughing out loud. :D
Fogel the Magical 01-19-05, 01:01 AM	Any specifics you can tell us? As a matter of fact the whole "superbeast" thing doesn't really apply it was more of a possible possibility. My specific problem revolves around a young fellow who owns the Book of Exalted Deeds and wants to milk it for all that its worth in my new campaign while the rest of the group wants to play core rules. I told everyone, including the BoED person, from the beginning, that core rules were mainplace. Sooo, the campaign has yet to start and I'm seeing the BoED person tomorrow and I guess I could severely restrict his use of the book, like he can use one feat from the book every 4-5 levels and as far as class related stuff I could probably be super severe on that. Thanks to everyone who has responded so far and please keep helping I've got until the middle of February to figure it out.
siege72 01-19-05, 12:46 PM	My specific problem revolves around a young fellow who owns the Book of Exalted Deeds and wants to milk it for all that its worth in my new campaign while the rest of the group wants to play core rules. I told everyone, including the BoED person, from the beginning, that core rules were mainplace. Sooo, the campaign has yet to start and I'm seeing the BoED person tomorrow and I guess I could severely restrict his use of the book, like he can use one feat from the book every 4-5 levels and as far as class related stuff I could probably be super severe on that. Thanks to everyone who has responded so far and please keep helping I've got until the middle of February to figure it out. In my house rules, I specifically list which books are being used... and I state that I can alter or remove any material (official or not). I'm willing to make allowances for player-owned materials, but they are the exception, not the rule. Good luck!