Balancing serious with silly [Archive] - Wizards Community

Balancing serious with silly [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Altar_Boy
02-12-07, 08:32 PM Here's my set-up: My group loves to be ridiculous. Any chance they get to be off-topic, they plunge right in. What's interesting is that, when silly, they get into the game even more. All the tips from Dungeon Magazine and the two DMGs have been less useful in motivating this group to play D&D than making a casual pop-culture tie-in to the situation.

Now, I realize that going completley silly would ruin it for them. Plus, I am kind of an in-game stickler. I only crack jokes at the table when things are slow. I'm starting up what hopes to be a serious campaign, but I want to laden it with encounters that, as individual moments, are funny as heck for the players.

Anyone ever balanced the goofy/serious scales?
Stardust
02-12-07, 08:43 PM Whilst the balance you mention is definitely a consideration in any campaign, it seems like a more pertinent issue in your particular case is that of matching the campaign to the group.

If you have a group that loves silliness, pop-culture references and general light-heartedness, then rather than figure out how to keep them focussed on your serious (probably political/RP?) game, perhaps you should think about whether the idea is a good one in the first place. It's analagous to buying a cat and then trying to figure out how to get it to fetch a stick and beg for treats.

That said, the best idea is probably to talk to the players in question and tell them you have a serious campaign in mind, but that it wont be 100% hardcore RP. See if they actually want to play that kind of game and if they don't, then have a think why you're going to run this game for these particular players.

Of course it also sounds like you like a good laugh yourself, so perhaps all is not lost. Have you ever read any Terry Pratchett books? He does an excellent job of creating grandiose plots and memorable, fascinating events and plots, but throwing in tons of hilarious characters, footnotes and recurring jokes.

In any case, I find it's always a better idea to base the campaign around the players, provided it's also one that you're going to enjoy running. Trying to run a campaign that only you want is going to be boring for them and trying to pander to your players is going to be dissatisfying for you. The key is communication :)
PenderGrass
02-12-07, 08:44 PM Always.

A quick tip - don't ever remove the randomness of the d20.

One of the first games I had with some of my players was them failing to balance on an icy dock, upon which they slipped and fell into the water - where upon they both nearly drowned!

We still crack up over that incident (even though it was way back in 2nd edition).

If you let your game progress somewhat randomly it is bound to have funny moments.

:dragon:
****
ornitholestes
02-12-07, 08:53 PM Don't try to force comedy, it will just end up un-funny. Very few campaigns that try to be funny last very long, the players will find their own fun and their own jokes. It sounds like your players are already enjoying the game so, if you are having fun, there is no reason to change anything!
Xykon
02-13-07, 04:55 AM Just a tip that may help (or maybe not). If you're running a campaign where there is a level of NPC interaction, make the NPC to be much more engaging.

Although i do have a serious group, there are times where they do get silly. I think its because of a hard week and sometimes they just wanna relax and have "minimal" thinking process.

Thats when i get the NPC's involved in their comments -- not all mind you. Just those which relate best to majority of the group's classes. i.e. the rogue, the barbarian will relate well with the NPC pirate. This will allow the pirate NPC to jump into their "conversation" and hopefully veer them back into the plot.

Anyway just my 2 cp.
Xykon
02-13-07, 04:59 AM Think of it like this:

Player A: Your character suck. (obviously out of topic)
Player B: Oh yeah? yours too! (obviously out of topic)
Pirate NPC: Har har, you want something that suck? i know some nice wenches at the Iron Fist inn... and they swallow too! Har har har.

Of course, remember to put in plot relevant stuff as well so that to remind them of what their current mission/objective is. i.e. "By the way, that XXX you're looking for, he was in the inn too last time. Not too pleased after Me and the boys some gold off the sneaky bugger on a game of bones"
BlueBlazer
02-13-07, 10:43 AM Altar_Boy, the game I run is a lot like the one you describe. It's not all goofiness and jokes, but there is a good amount of silliness and humor. So here are my bits of advice.

-You should have a good idea how funny you are, and if not, just pay attention (do your attempts meet with blank stares or laughter?). If you're funny enough to add humor by making silly encounters or NPCs, do so. If you're not, play it straight. The straight comedian (not sexual, as in the one who pretends not to be in on the joke) can be hilarious. So if you can't pull off deliberate silliness or genuinely funny "joke" encounters or NPCs, play it absolutely humorlessly (run a "serious" game) and sit back and wait until your players find something funny on their own (and they will).

-Do not interpret this behavior (finding stuff funny, joking around) as lack of interest. You've said that your players seem more into the game when they joke around (and mine do as well)... it's not because they're bored and joking around to inject fun into your dull game. It's (almost certainly) because some players inject realism into their play style. I may get flamed for saying this, but tromping through dungeon after dungeon, slaying hosts of monsters and foiling nefarious plots, all with a serious I'm Saving The World face is not exactly realism (or fantasy realism). How often do you joke around with your friends in real life? How often do you randomly find someone's real life name funny? The standard Action/Adventure/SciFi/Fantasty movie (,book, whatever) can be fun, but the characters in them rarely act realistically because so many of their characters are serious all the freaking time. Which is part of why (to take an example) Tolkien's stuff is so good... his characters aren't trompling around in unrealistic seriousness; sometimes they're serious and sometimes they joke around and get silly (even irresponsible) and make fun of one another.

- try to keep them in character. If you get annoyed whenever they joke around, they're going to rebel. If you get annoyed when they talk out of character (joking or not) but let them go to town when in character (even when being silly) they'll get the idea. Or just come right out and say you want them in character more. However you want to do it, channel their silly energies into the game.

-Be willing to adapt to their silliness. If they want to spend all day following some NPC around town using ghost sound and prestidigitation to screw with him, let them. Have the NPC react, maybe notice the joke, maybe remain clueless. They'll blow off some steam and have fun, and it's completely in character and realistic (I, for one, have played a number of practical jokes, on friends and strangers. I've never fought in a bar fight or stabbed a thief or picked a pocket or blown up a major building with magic fire or run away from a police officer. Which isn't to say the latter aren't standard behavior for adventurers... just that practical joking can be too).

-If they push the joke too far for the game (not like get on your nerves, like insult the king or ignore the guards' request to disperse cuz they're still laughing at their accent), act realistically. Insulting the king is gonna get you in jail (and probably some stick time). Some guards will lock you up for being insulting, some will just shake their heads. Don't let them get away with silliness they shouldn't (taking a joke too far for their in game setting), but don't have every NPC and/or authority figure freak out. If they're getting all Tom Green on your shopkeep or guard, chuck 'em in jail. If they're not Crossing The Line, let it go.
Holy_Avenger_441
02-13-07, 11:25 AM There is nothing wrong with being silly while playing some of our favorite stories come from just goofing off, if anything I support being silly it helps my players get into character more.
Senevri
02-13-07, 12:26 PM Watch "The Slayers" a lot. "Fullmetal Alchemist" will do in a pinch.

Pick up S. John Ross's Uresia CS, he talks some of using both serious and silly.

Sorry 'bout not giving better advice. I haven't mastered the art myself yet, either, and I'm lazy.
FntsyWlkr
02-13-07, 01:05 PM I find that humor, many times, is the foreplay to role playing.

People sometimes feel uneasy about talking in character. So, a way to dissolve that comfort is to do (what they call in the theatrical/performance world) as "commenting." That is when you are playing to the fact that you are NOT the person or character.

... which plays into the humor aspect.

But I also agree that sometimes the generated seriousness or reality ... can make it funny. One time during a game, our guide was a little pixie on someone's shoulder. We were ambushed by a huge dragon. Everybody BUT THE GUIDE made our reflex save.

The pixie became a huge smear on someone's shoulder ... like a bird dropping ...
Altar_Boy
02-14-07, 03:21 PM Thanks to everyone for the A+ responses. In case you were wondering, I'm running Red Hand of Doom. I figure it will be a good mix of fighting and comedic NPCs.

FntsyWlkr: You've hit the nail on the head. My group is uncomfortable to start with, but are usually rolling like a well-oiled machine by day's end.

BlueBlazer: Yeah, I'm definately a straightman. My porpoise impression last week wasn't so hot, but I did get them laughing when one of them tossed a NPC and rolled a critical miss.

BTW, they're a great group. They haven't got on my nerves, it's just that they're so different from what I've played with before that I'm not sure what to expect from them.

Xykon: Excellent example, though I wouldn't use it in front of the 9 year-old player (and his mother).

PenderGrass: Yeah, they like those moments. When it happens to the other guy. :P
FntsyWlkr
02-15-07, 12:31 PM You sound like a great DM.

Let me know if you ever have a space ... and free air fare ...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Altar_Boy 02-12-07, 08:32 PM	Here's my set-up: My group loves to be ridiculous. Any chance they get to be off-topic, they plunge right in. What's interesting is that, when silly, they get into the game even more. All the tips from Dungeon Magazine and the two DMGs have been less useful in motivating this group to play D&D than making a casual pop-culture tie-in to the situation. Now, I realize that going completley silly would ruin it for them. Plus, I am kind of an in-game stickler. I only crack jokes at the table when things are slow. I'm starting up what hopes to be a serious campaign, but I want to laden it with encounters that, as individual moments, are funny as heck for the players. Anyone ever balanced the goofy/serious scales?
Stardust 02-12-07, 08:43 PM	Whilst the balance you mention is definitely a consideration in any campaign, it seems like a more pertinent issue in your particular case is that of matching the campaign to the group. If you have a group that loves silliness, pop-culture references and general light-heartedness, then rather than figure out how to keep them focussed on your serious (probably political/RP?) game, perhaps you should think about whether the idea is a good one in the first place. It's analagous to buying a cat and then trying to figure out how to get it to fetch a stick and beg for treats. That said, the best idea is probably to talk to the players in question and tell them you have a serious campaign in mind, but that it wont be 100% hardcore RP. See if they actually want to play that kind of game and if they don't, then have a think why you're going to run this game for these particular players. Of course it also sounds like you like a good laugh yourself, so perhaps all is not lost. Have you ever read any Terry Pratchett books? He does an excellent job of creating grandiose plots and memorable, fascinating events and plots, but throwing in tons of hilarious characters, footnotes and recurring jokes. In any case, I find it's always a better idea to base the campaign around the players, provided it's also one that you're going to enjoy running. Trying to run a campaign that only you want is going to be boring for them and trying to pander to your players is going to be dissatisfying for you. The key is communication :)
PenderGrass 02-12-07, 08:44 PM	Always. A quick tip - don't ever remove the randomness of the d20. One of the first games I had with some of my players was them failing to balance on an icy dock, upon which they slipped and fell into the water - where upon they both nearly drowned! We still crack up over that incident (even though it was way back in 2nd edition). If you let your game progress somewhat randomly it is bound to have funny moments. :dragon: ****
ornitholestes 02-12-07, 08:53 PM	Don't try to force comedy, it will just end up un-funny. Very few campaigns that try to be funny last very long, the players will find their own fun and their own jokes. It sounds like your players are already enjoying the game so, if you are having fun, there is no reason to change anything!
Xykon 02-13-07, 04:55 AM	Just a tip that may help (or maybe not). If you're running a campaign where there is a level of NPC interaction, make the NPC to be much more engaging. Although i do have a serious group, there are times where they do get silly. I think its because of a hard week and sometimes they just wanna relax and have "minimal" thinking process. Thats when i get the NPC's involved in their comments -- not all mind you. Just those which relate best to majority of the group's classes. i.e. the rogue, the barbarian will relate well with the NPC pirate. This will allow the pirate NPC to jump into their "conversation" and hopefully veer them back into the plot. Anyway just my 2 cp.
Xykon 02-13-07, 04:59 AM	Think of it like this: Player A: Your character suck. (obviously out of topic) Player B: Oh yeah? yours too! (obviously out of topic) Pirate NPC: Har har, you want something that suck? i know some nice wenches at the Iron Fist inn... and they swallow too! Har har har. Of course, remember to put in plot relevant stuff as well so that to remind them of what their current mission/objective is. i.e. "By the way, that XXX you're looking for, he was in the inn too last time. Not too pleased after Me and the boys some gold off the sneaky bugger on a game of bones"
BlueBlazer 02-13-07, 10:43 AM	Altar_Boy, the game I run is a lot like the one you describe. It's not all goofiness and jokes, but there is a good amount of silliness and humor. So here are my bits of advice. -You should have a good idea how funny you are, and if not, just pay attention (do your attempts meet with blank stares or laughter?). If you're funny enough to add humor by making silly encounters or NPCs, do so. If you're not, play it straight. The straight comedian (not sexual, as in the one who pretends not to be in on the joke) can be hilarious. So if you can't pull off deliberate silliness or genuinely funny "joke" encounters or NPCs, play it absolutely humorlessly (run a "serious" game) and sit back and wait until your players find something funny on their own (and they will). -Do not interpret this behavior (finding stuff funny, joking around) as lack of interest. You've said that your players seem more into the game when they joke around (and mine do as well)... it's not because they're bored and joking around to inject fun into your dull game. It's (almost certainly) because some players inject realism into their play style. I may get flamed for saying this, but tromping through dungeon after dungeon, slaying hosts of monsters and foiling nefarious plots, all with a serious I'm Saving The World face is not exactly realism (or fantasy realism). How often do you joke around with your friends in real life? How often do you randomly find someone's real life name funny? The standard Action/Adventure/SciFi/Fantasty movie (,book, whatever) can be fun, but the characters in them rarely act realistically because so many of their characters are serious all the freaking time. Which is part of why (to take an example) Tolkien's stuff is so good... his characters aren't trompling around in unrealistic seriousness; sometimes they're serious and sometimes they joke around and get silly (even irresponsible) and make fun of one another. - try to keep them in character. If you get annoyed whenever they joke around, they're going to rebel. If you get annoyed when they talk out of character (joking or not) but let them go to town when in character (even when being silly) they'll get the idea. Or just come right out and say you want them in character more. However you want to do it, channel their silly energies into the game. -Be willing to adapt to their silliness. If they want to spend all day following some NPC around town using ghost sound and prestidigitation to screw with him, let them. Have the NPC react, maybe notice the joke, maybe remain clueless. They'll blow off some steam and have fun, and it's completely in character and realistic (I, for one, have played a number of practical jokes, on friends and strangers. I've never fought in a bar fight or stabbed a thief or picked a pocket or blown up a major building with magic fire or run away from a police officer. Which isn't to say the latter aren't standard behavior for adventurers... just that practical joking can be too). -If they push the joke too far for the game (not like get on your nerves, like insult the king or ignore the guards' request to disperse cuz they're still laughing at their accent), act realistically. Insulting the king is gonna get you in jail (and probably some stick time). Some guards will lock you up for being insulting, some will just shake their heads. Don't let them get away with silliness they shouldn't (taking a joke too far for their in game setting), but don't have every NPC and/or authority figure freak out. If they're getting all Tom Green on your shopkeep or guard, chuck 'em in jail. If they're not Crossing The Line, let it go.
Holy_Avenger_441 02-13-07, 11:25 AM	There is nothing wrong with being silly while playing some of our favorite stories come from just goofing off, if anything I support being silly it helps my players get into character more.
Senevri 02-13-07, 12:26 PM	Watch "The Slayers" a lot. "Fullmetal Alchemist" will do in a pinch. Pick up S. John Ross's Uresia CS, he talks some of using both serious and silly. Sorry 'bout not giving better advice. I haven't mastered the art myself yet, either, and I'm lazy.
FntsyWlkr 02-13-07, 01:05 PM	I find that humor, many times, is the foreplay to role playing. People sometimes feel uneasy about talking in character. So, a way to dissolve that comfort is to do (what they call in the theatrical/performance world) as "commenting." That is when you are playing to the fact that you are NOT the person or character. ... which plays into the humor aspect. But I also agree that sometimes the generated seriousness or reality ... can make it funny. One time during a game, our guide was a little pixie on someone's shoulder. We were ambushed by a huge dragon. Everybody BUT THE GUIDE made our reflex save. The pixie became a huge smear on someone's shoulder ... like a bird dropping ...
Altar_Boy 02-14-07, 03:21 PM	Thanks to everyone for the A+ responses. In case you were wondering, I'm running Red Hand of Doom. I figure it will be a good mix of fighting and comedic NPCs. FntsyWlkr: You've hit the nail on the head. My group is uncomfortable to start with, but are usually rolling like a well-oiled machine by day's end. BlueBlazer: Yeah, I'm definately a straightman. My porpoise impression last week wasn't so hot, but I did get them laughing when one of them tossed a NPC and rolled a critical miss. BTW, they're a great group. They haven't got on my nerves, it's just that they're so different from what I've played with before that I'm not sure what to expect from them. Xykon: Excellent example, though I wouldn't use it in front of the 9 year-old player (and his mother). PenderGrass: Yeah, they like those moments. When it happens to the other guy. :P
FntsyWlkr 02-15-07, 12:31 PM	You sound like a great DM. Let me know if you ever have a space ... and free air fare ...