Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TKEdoc225 07-22-03, 04:29 PM	Our group has used various methods for generating stats in the years we have been playing. We have tried rolling 3d6, 4d6 drop low, 5d6 drop 2 lowest. We've tried allowing the rerolling of 1's, keeping the rolls as they stand, and the floating reroll. We have also tried various forms of point buy from 25 points to 38 points. The problem is that with the roll methods, someone always gets the short end and has crappy stats and is unhappy, while someone else gets 18, 18, 17, 17, 16, 15. I understand that everyone is born different, but ion that situation, the person with the high stats takes over the game, and the guys who rolled poorly feel left out. With point buy, everyone is the same, yet it gets boring because most of the guys try to min/max the scores they buy and character concept goes out the window. Recently we tried a new method. We all rolled 4d6 drop low. Then, we figured out what it would take to buy those scores using point buy. We then averaged those points and everyone got that amount. It was good, because everyone was able to take advantage of my good luck. The problem though, was that once again, everyone pretty much had the same stats, just in different places. I think I might have a solution to the problem, Point buy 25+3d4. It will give a range of scores anywhere from 28-37, with the bulk being near 32. It keeps everyone in a close range, yet allows for some variation in their characters. What do you all think of this? What methods work for your group? Do people in your group complain about using certain methods? I guess the main thing is trying to keep the party relatively balanced while still allowing for variation in the characters.
Erus 07-22-03, 04:50 PM	I guess we never really ran into an issue of everyone being the 'same' too horribly, this campaign, I was thinking of creating a set of scores and handing them out for folks to distrubute, (allow the adding of 2 points anywhere, and subtracting of 2 points anywhere, then apply racial mod.) this could realitically create a 1/2 orc with 22 strength to start, but I have confidance in my players to not be completely stupid about using their points... Erus.
Sid_Patterson 07-22-03, 05:28 PM	Originally posted by TKEdoc225 the person with the high stats takes over the game, and the guys who rolled poorly feel left out Baah!! That's garbage man. The only time variance in the Ability score totals really matters is at VERY low levels. I mean let's face it, the difference between a really great Strength of 18 and a positively mediocre Strength of 10 is only 4 points. 4 points when your random chance is a spread of 1 to 20 points means not a lot. If your players are able to take over the game with a measley point or two then maybe they are the people that just talk louder. A few points doesn't make or break a character in d20. My advice is...it's a role-playing game...the numbers are just there to decide outcomes instead of arbitrating them, that's all.
ECOM 07-22-03, 11:31 PM	have them roll 1d6 +12 1d6 +12 1d6 +10 1d6 +10 1d6 +8 1d6 +8 this produces results from 18-9 average 13 with no more than 2 scores higher than 16 allow a reroll if total ability bonus is 4 or 5 less than highest players (this may work with any rolling system) although i have found that this is only important for levels 1-5 after that the class and magic bonuses have more of an impact on dice rolls
Conaill 07-23-03, 11:47 AM	Here we go again.... Using point-buy with a randomized point-buy value is the WORST of both worlds! Why do people use point-buy? Because they want characters to be balanced with each other. Why do people use rolling methods instead? Because they like the randomness, the non-cookie-cutter feel of the resulting stats. Randomized point buy creates (1) unbalanced characters, with (2) min-maxed scores. Exactly what you *don't* want. Instead, you could try to use methods that give you somewhat randomized stats, while still keeping them balanced overall, i.e. exactly the opposite of randomized point-buy! Here are three methods that combine these features: 1) Roll stats, then adjust their point-buy value to match a desired value. If the total is too high, you can only decrease stats. If the total is too low, you can only increase stats. You'll get fairly natural looking stats, with some unexpected highs and lows, but all characters are perfectly point-buy balanced. 2) Roll only three stats, the other three are equal to 25 minus the first three, max 18. So if you roll 5,17,11, the remaining three stats will be 18, 8,14. Not perfectly point-buy balanced, but at least the overall total is balanced. For every high stat you will have a low one as well. For every even stat, you have an odd one. 3) Get a deck of cards, and remove all but the 1-6 cards. Deal 6 stacks of 4 cards, and remove the lowest card from each stack. This method gives almost exactly the same distribution for the individual stats as 4d6-drop-lowest, but the overal set of stats is *much* better balanced. Again, not perfectly balanced, but way better than rolled stats. PS: The "cookie-cutter stats" argument against the point buy method is really a straw man argumant anyways. I've seen people roll stats an play exactly the same character time after time with different stats. I've also seen entire groups play with the default array from the DMG and create wildly different characters with them. Your character is defined by how you play them, not by your stats. You shouldn't even know each other PC's stats anyway, so how could you tell that the Fighter in the group has exactly the same distribution of stats as your Bard? And why would that matter?
deadite 07-23-03, 04:03 PM	I used point buy twice, first 30 and later 28 points. Now with the third campaign (hope this one lasts) I have chosen to use 4d6 drop lowest (but if all the scores add up lower than 60) or if 1 is rolled twice they are both rerolled. 60 total points is average 10 in all abilities, which would really annoy that player... However, I have one player who has made four characters and we havent started playing yet. Everytime he has decided to play something he realizes it's not really what he expected. So when he was rolling up his last character he rolled pretty bad, total being 64, so he said "Aww, come on let me roll again" I smiled and said he would just have to accept the way he rolled, not everybody is the same. "Why cant we use point buy! " :( "Ah, I'll just make another character and roll again" At that point I became angry and told him he could roll again for his current character but even if he got a total of 61 he would just have to accept it or find something else to do with his time. Overall I like the 4d6 method, pointbuy caused everybody to have the same stats.
DrakathTheRatling 07-23-03, 07:57 PM	Next time I have players generate characters I'll give them all the same set of numbers to assign to abilities. The numbers will be generated using the 4d6 drop low method, rolled by the players themselves (and at least one by me). That way it is balanced, yet unpredictable.