Bane weapons? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bane weapons? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nunchuckgun
02-19-07, 04:15 PM Now, I'm running a pretty dragon heavy campaign, and the PC's aren't idiots, they know that dragon bane weapons would be a definite boost to their ability to battle these things. I'm willing to limit (have been so far) the number and type of magic items that they can buy, and what they can loot, but does anyone know any strategies that can negate or block this extra damage vs. dragons?
Kragg Bonemeal
02-19-07, 04:24 PM ...does anyone know any strategies that can negate or block this extra damage vs. dragons?

Don't use dragons??? Really, though, don't reduce your players like this. Bane weapons are made precisely for this very reason... a very powerful creature type is the typical source of strife, so a magic user makes a weapon that will help kill it. If dragons are the problem, they will have enough issues with trying to get it to land and fight hand to hand against their bane weapons. They will have trouble getting through the lair guard beasts, and defeating the traps that crafty older dragons make. If a fighter has a bane weapon, he instantly becomes a target for the dragon attacking... breath weapon, spells, and fly-bys... the dragon doesn't just plunk down beside him and let him get off swings.
Kukamunga
02-19-07, 04:38 PM I agree... they spend quite a large amount of money for that enchantment.. its only good against that one monster.. and chances are the gaurd monsters wont be dragons.. so very limited use

Actually in a campaign like yours.. dragon bane'd weapons will probubly be more common than anything else.. so just go with it.. the dragons will know this and will be expecting it.. dont nerf it.. just think like a dragon
Escef
02-19-07, 04:48 PM How can a dragon counter this? Use non-draconic agents, be they loyal, coerced, bribed, or charmed. Disarm and Sunder also work wonders. Stay air-borne and use spells and breath weapons (or take advantage of that nice reach being a dragon gives). A full-attack against the offender with power attack generally renders the weapon moot if the weilder is a pile of hamburger on the floor. Dragons are not stupid (ok, whites aside), and many of them raise and teach their young. Most dragons know how to handle dragonslayers, especially the older ones.
Pallin Rahl
02-19-07, 04:51 PM Actually in a campaign like yours.. dragon bane'd weapons will probubly be more common than anything else...
Another way to think about it is that: In a world overrun with dragons, Dragon Bane weapons might be more rare than in most worlds. ...I suppose it depends on the actual campaign world in question. It's altogether possible that in his campaign world the dragons run the show to the extent that they took the time to eliminate these weapons designed specifically to destroy them (and found a way to even limit the knowledge of how to create them).

Look... plain and simple, the Bane quality is perfectly fine as-is for more-generalist campaigns. However, it becomes far more powerful in campaigns that strongly favor the use of a particular enemy type.

I'm not saying he takes Bane completely out of the picture... but I could easily see him making it harder to get ahold of... or more costly. I see no problem with making Bane a +2 or +3 bonus in a campaign that will focus primarily on hunting a very specific enemy type.

A campaign that my group recently brought to a successful close was heavily-focused on demon slaying. I'd say 75% of what we fought were demons of one sort or another. In such a setting, a Demon Bane weapon is far more powerful than it is in a more "generalist" campaign. It's up to you if you wish to balance this out in some manner.

...but yes, something to keep in mind is that Dragons are not like some enemies out there. Where you might have an undead slaying campaign where you send wave after wave of low-end undead at your party before getting to the more powerful undead (making an Undead Bane weapon rather powerful)... likely you won't be sending wave after wave of dragons at your party. More likely they'll have to fight through other non-dragon obsticles to get to the Big Bad Dragon at the end of the line. If this is more the situation you'll have them facing, then Dragon Bane weapons shouldn't skew things too badly (to the point where you'd want to significantly limit them or anything).
nunchuckgun
02-20-07, 03:01 PM Great! Thanks for the tips. In my campaign magic items are kind of rare, most of what the party gets is loot, so I like the idea of increasing the price. And of course, minions, traps and wings are great tools.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nunchuckgun 02-19-07, 04:15 PM	Now, I'm running a pretty dragon heavy campaign, and the PC's aren't idiots, they know that dragon bane weapons would be a definite boost to their ability to battle these things. I'm willing to limit (have been so far) the number and type of magic items that they can buy, and what they can loot, but does anyone know any strategies that can negate or block this extra damage vs. dragons?
Kragg Bonemeal 02-19-07, 04:24 PM	...does anyone know any strategies that can negate or block this extra damage vs. dragons? Don't use dragons??? Really, though, don't reduce your players like this. Bane weapons are made precisely for this very reason... a very powerful creature type is the typical source of strife, so a magic user makes a weapon that will help kill it. If dragons are the problem, they will have enough issues with trying to get it to land and fight hand to hand against their bane weapons. They will have trouble getting through the lair guard beasts, and defeating the traps that crafty older dragons make. If a fighter has a bane weapon, he instantly becomes a target for the dragon attacking... breath weapon, spells, and fly-bys... the dragon doesn't just plunk down beside him and let him get off swings.
Kukamunga 02-19-07, 04:38 PM	I agree... they spend quite a large amount of money for that enchantment.. its only good against that one monster.. and chances are the gaurd monsters wont be dragons.. so very limited use Actually in a campaign like yours.. dragon bane'd weapons will probubly be more common than anything else.. so just go with it.. the dragons will know this and will be expecting it.. dont nerf it.. just think like a dragon
Escef 02-19-07, 04:48 PM	How can a dragon counter this? Use non-draconic agents, be they loyal, coerced, bribed, or charmed. Disarm and Sunder also work wonders. Stay air-borne and use spells and breath weapons (or take advantage of that nice reach being a dragon gives). A full-attack against the offender with power attack generally renders the weapon moot if the weilder is a pile of hamburger on the floor. Dragons are not stupid (ok, whites aside), and many of them raise and teach their young. Most dragons know how to handle dragonslayers, especially the older ones.
Pallin Rahl 02-19-07, 04:51 PM	Actually in a campaign like yours.. dragon bane'd weapons will probubly be more common than anything else... Another way to think about it is that: In a world overrun with dragons, Dragon Bane weapons might be more rare than in most worlds. ...I suppose it depends on the actual campaign world in question. It's altogether possible that in his campaign world the dragons run the show to the extent that they took the time to eliminate these weapons designed specifically to destroy them (and found a way to even limit the knowledge of how to create them). Look... plain and simple, the Bane quality is perfectly fine as-is for more-generalist campaigns. However, it becomes far more powerful in campaigns that strongly favor the use of a particular enemy type. I'm not saying he takes Bane completely out of the picture... but I could easily see him making it harder to get ahold of... or more costly. I see no problem with making Bane a +2 or +3 bonus in a campaign that will focus primarily on hunting a very specific enemy type. A campaign that my group recently brought to a successful close was heavily-focused on demon slaying. I'd say 75% of what we fought were demons of one sort or another. In such a setting, a Demon Bane weapon is far more powerful than it is in a more "generalist" campaign. It's up to you if you wish to balance this out in some manner. ...but yes, something to keep in mind is that Dragons are not like some enemies out there. Where you might have an undead slaying campaign where you send wave after wave of low-end undead at your party before getting to the more powerful undead (making an Undead Bane weapon rather powerful)... likely you won't be sending wave after wave of dragons at your party. More likely they'll have to fight through other non-dragon obsticles to get to the Big Bad Dragon at the end of the line. If this is more the situation you'll have them facing, then Dragon Bane weapons shouldn't skew things too badly (to the point where you'd want to significantly limit them or anything).
nunchuckgun 02-20-07, 03:01 PM	Great! Thanks for the tips. In my campaign magic items are kind of rare, most of what the party gets is loot, so I like the idea of increasing the price. And of course, minions, traps and wings are great tools.