Post/Author/DateTime	Post
HagerHobbit 03-22-07, 01:37 PM	I've been running various campagins over the last few years. The PCs don't really fear dieing, in fact I think they like trying out something new every week. Though I do my best to make the battles they encounter difficult, they tend to Min/Max their resources and often find ways to break RAW to create a very powerful character. I've banned a few things because of this, and was curious if there was Feats, Spells, Powers, Classes and Prestige Classes that any other DMs have banned.
Cold Napalm 03-22-07, 01:45 PM	I basically allow everything I own and if they wanna play a min maxed game, then so do I. Remeber your the DM, everything they can do, you can do better. Oh you have an uber charge build...well meat my calvery of uber chargers. Oh you have a druid...well umm meet my druid (since that's all that's gonna trump that really).
Yakman 03-22-07, 02:09 PM	Elves, half-elves, and Halflings are banned.
HagerHobbit 03-22-07, 02:10 PM	Except that it becomes a bit unrealistic when EVERY humanoid build they face is a Frenzied Berserker who has Leaping Attack and Headlong Rush, dealing something like 80-90 points a charge, and improved inititive so that they act first. A good DM shouldn't be cheezing the rules in return of the players...this after all results in TPK. An example of a power that is banned is Sychronicity An example of a Prestige Class is Frenzied Berserker Sychronicty allows for the potential of unlimited actions. Frenzied Berserker has the potential to cause Party infighting and thus... a TPK or bad feelings within the party. These are examples of things that I beleive at least in my campaign, that shouldn't be allowed. (Not allowing temptation to try those things.) So once again, what are some things that other DMs have banned, or at least ruled on....to change how things work?
Vaalingrade Ashland 03-22-07, 02:25 PM	Frenzied Berserker, Paladin, the entire book of exalted deeds -- basically anything that thinks poor roleplay is a balance, or 'balances' things by penalizing everyone but the player with he class. Psionics because I don't like the flavor. Disjunction because its far too gone to even be fixed. Monks, because my combatant class replaces them (and to a lesser extent, fighters) Alignment in general. Gnomes and half-orcs because both races are dead int he setting. PKing in all its digusting forms.
Toloran 03-22-07, 02:30 PM	Things I generally don't allow: Any evil alignment Chaotic Neutral (until proven they can play it properly, too many play it as chaotic evil but without showing on detect evil). Bot9S classes until after the 3rd level or so (mainly because the power creep is so much more pronounced when compared to the stuff we normally use). Anything from a book I don't own until I've been given a week to go over it. Races with racial HD (mainly because my group insists upon a stupid houserule* realting to it, so whenever I DM i just ban them all together). Disjunction (more of a "You don't use it, and I won't either" thing). Gate (for obvious reasons) Thats about it * The house rule is that you can just forgo the racial HD for a race. So a Lvl 1 Fighter lizardfolk (+1 LA, 2 racial HD) would start out as an ECL 2 instead of ECL 4. Thats a minor example (we've had far worse abuses, i just can't think of a good example at the moment).
hiryuu 03-22-07, 02:37 PM	Just about anything I own is allowed. Heck, self-made homebrew stuff is usually allowed, too (last time I made a class, my GM told me he didn't even want to look at it, that he knew me enough that he knew it was balanced already; that made me feel very good inside) I trust my players pretty well, and they trust me. I expect the same when they're running, and so do they.
Daydreamer 03-22-07, 02:44 PM	Only core at first level. Nothing published by 3rd party sources-only wotc material. no skills feats from other realm books-ie if playing in eberron, no pretige classes from forgotten realms books, at least without dm approval.
deltadave 03-22-07, 02:49 PM	I'm with you, Napalm. Tell the players up front - anything you can do I can do better. If they want to min/max, then they can't complain when a villian shows up who has been custom built to do the same thing. Despite that, I usually have at least one player who does exactly that, and that is the player that I hit up with the roleplaying fish out of water scenarios. While they are floundering around doing their thing, the other characters are often fighting for their lives literally and figuratively. One trick pony (laughingly called optimized by some) characters have so many other weaknesses that it's easy to take advantage of them.
HagerHobbit 03-22-07, 03:23 PM	I'm with you, Napalm. Tell the players up front - anything you can do I can do better. I'm not sure the characters have fun against a vengeful DM. The job of the DM isn't to kill the Players, it's to make it challenging and fun. If the job was to kill the players, why not just send out that epic Dracolich? Great Wyrm Dragon... or Apocolypse Stone? And just make sure they never get past level 1? By limiting the 'cheese' the characters can create, you instead have more fluid campaigns.
danielinthewolvesden 03-22-07, 03:24 PM	There are three good reason to ban such stuff: 1. The class is naturally disruptive. The Frenzied Berserker. Along those lines also are mixed alignments, party theives and Pkers. 2. It does not fit your world- example Psionics or Oriental classes. 3. You are not familiar with the rules for something, and you need to be to DM it correctly : Psionics, the book Truename magic came from, Incarnum, and so forth.
Kursk 03-22-07, 03:27 PM	I've been running various campagins over the last few years. The PCs don't really fear dieing, in fact I think they like trying out something new every week. Though I do my best to make the battles they encounter difficult, they tend to Min/Max their resources and often find ways to break RAW to create a very powerful character. I've banned a few things because of this, and was curious if there was Feats, Spells, Powers, Classes and Prestige Classes that any other DMs have banned. I allow CORE classes/races. I banned Natural Spell. PrCs are campaign specific only so they are my creation. No surprises as the DM...
TheChilliGod 03-22-07, 03:39 PM	Hm. I don't ban much relating to classes and whatnot, but I am very strict with the races. -Any evil alignments. -Anything with a racial ECL higher than 4, unless given a damn good reason. -Savage Progressions. I don't agree with the concept in the slightest. -3rd-party material, and anything from Dragon mags (Hardly an issue anyway, considering how many 3rd-party sources and Dragon mags the collective group owns), unless given a damn good reason. Edit: -Oh yeah, Unearthed Arcana as well. I'd prefer to keep things away from house rules. Yeah, anything else is pretty much fair game. If the players want to min/max it out, then they'll have left their min's open for me to max.
Ramrod_The_Wizard 03-22-07, 04:18 PM	In my current campaign im pretty liberal with what my PC's can use, within reason of course. After finnaly finishing my campaign setting I have decided in subsequent campaigns to do core only. Honestly, even though i love the extended rules, they do have a tendancy to get muddled. A simple, core game isnt that bad honestly. It prevents powergaming (the bad kind) and i dont see why people are so hostile to the core rules. Oh, and to my player's.... Yes i have finished the setting, im not gonna do the writeup cause that would probably kill me. All of the really important stuff is already written out. Names are the only obstacle and that only for a few cities. :D
Imatash 03-22-07, 04:18 PM	Basically we use the basics :) Anything extra feat or class must be justified by research, training or seeing an opponent using it so they try to mimic the feat. This allows me to check the new feat or class prior to having it blow apart a session of gaming. It is also more 'realistic' pun as the characters have to justify how they are learning something that is beyond what would be 'normal' Remember Player Characters die....:) Imatash
Sphyre 03-22-07, 04:21 PM	Though I do my best to make the battles they encounter difficult, they tend to Min/Max their resources and often find ways to break RAW to create a very powerful character. I've banned a few things because of this, and was curious if there was Feats, Spells, Powers, Classes and Prestige Classes that any other DMs have banned. I ban very little. I say "Don't be a douche, and don't try to break the game." and it works. Those who want to be a douche and break the game are either not invited back, or never invited to play in the first place.
kelvinaw273 03-22-07, 04:28 PM	I ban Disruptive Characters (that includes Frenzied Beserkers, Evil alignments [unless really well played], badly played Paladins, and PvPers, but is not limited to these). I don't ban psionics (they can fit in as 'just another form of magic'), or any particular class (except the FB, although I do limit some others to geographic locale).
AntiDjinn 03-22-07, 04:57 PM	My group doesn't ban much: All party in-fighting. Rivalries and bickering is OK (and makes for good roleplaying). No matter the mix of alignments and classes, the PCs are always expected to make the party function as a unit. If you want to PK then begone! Explicit sex: Characters can get jiggy with it off-camera. No one wants to watch a fanboy live out his sexual fantasies. Rape: Just not heroic and nothing we want in our game. PC's don't rape (not even if you are a barbarian sacking a village) and don't get raped (even if it might be plausible; it is Dungeons & Dragons not Depravity & Degradation). Campaign-Specific stuff: A given game might ban sorcerers, the next might include only elements from the Rokugan setting. We have had problems in this area: Some players want to keep playing the character type they have always played and the rest of the group wants a different setting as a change from same-old same-old. For example, we had a great game lasting almost a year in which PCs were banned from: Necromancy (animating the dead, speaking with the dead, even handling dead bodies except for funeral rites) and the returning the dead to life (the gods did not even grant Raise Dead, Resurrection, True Resurrection). The pantheon the PC's worshiped was based on a cosmology of reincarnation so returning the dead to a previous life was viewed as a blasphemy. The DM just wanted to see how it would affect play if PC death was permanent.
Aryxbez 03-22-07, 05:11 PM	Psionics, because I don't like it, sounds more X-men than D&D. Also don't want to have to figure a complicated system full of broken crap from what I know. Technically ubercharging, although I have never said I banned it,more that Me and my players don't like to use it. so kinda like I wish to never use it so neither should the players I hope. Ninja class, because I had a bad run in with a player who played a ninja, because of that I got rid him and the class, as well as the Ring of Sustenance. Because i don't want to lose any players over something so stupid. Also any oriental classes as well since there is no asian culture in my games. No campaign specific books like Forgotten Realms or Eberron Although maybe Dragonlance since that setting is awesome. No evil alignments unless player can promise they won't hurt the party. Besides in my campaign evil is been winning for years. For the time being no Sorcerers because with little magic, Very unlikely random magic people going to pop up. Also because I am tired of seeing that arcane class all the time. No ripping off of Drizzt because I hate him so much.
Kursk 03-22-07, 05:16 PM	as well as the Ring of Sustenance. Because i don't want to lose any players over something so stupid. Ring of Sustenance is game breaking?
HagerHobbit 03-22-07, 05:19 PM	Extra feat or class must be justified by research, training or seeing an opponent using it so they try to mimic the feat. It is also more 'realistic' pun as the characters have to justify how they are learning something that is beyond what would be 'normal' I actually think I like that... a lot. It ensures that if as a DM you're willing to use it against a player, you must accept they will use it against you. The only thing I dislike with this is... racial feats & prestige classes. I don't want to hinder my Gnome Fighter for being a Gnome, but how many Breach Gnomes do you see..and how can he prepare for being a Breach Gnome until he knows what one is? But the character thought it would be a cool concept, yet I'm squashing Breach Gnome by this rule. I could however see assigning Knowledge Ranks (Much like how's it's done for regional qualifyers in the FR setting) to qualify for Fighter Feats, General Feats, Metamagic Feats, Racial Feats... that are not in the Core Books. This also would force people to pay a bit more attention to their intellegence to be able to get skill points. (Since most Fighters, have an 8 or lower Intellegence in most cases.) And would also force players to buy something other than Appraise, Search, Spot, Listen and Sense Motive.
LCD2YOU 03-22-07, 05:20 PM	Sodomy.Would that be in game between the PCs or between players (or you and the players) during the game?:cool:
Aryxbez 03-22-07, 05:21 PM	Ring of Sustenance is game breaking? No where even near that, just I got into a argument with the player who played the ninja and because of that stupid argument He left. Then again I was starting to really hate that guy anyway. Mostly then that is seemed to sound like the argument was almost starting to spread to my other good players. So to prevent any arguments and losing players, which I doubt would have happened. I banned to ensure that this would never happen to any of my players. As far as I am aware the players didn't really care much that it was banned. Also I am not a power hoarding DM, I usually allow anything as long it isn't too crazy. Like some items in some books. Although I am not sure of any items right now.
Onikani 03-22-07, 05:34 PM	i dont ban anything. But i only allow PHB, PHB2 + Completes + Environment series. If they find it in those books they can use it. If they find it in another book they can't. Case closed. :)
Karish 03-22-07, 05:48 PM	I allow anything in the PHB, DMG, or MM, a few classes, class variants, and races I've picked up or made, the bloodline, reputation, traits, and flaws features from the UA, a modification to sorcerer (energy type subversion, eschew materials at 1st level), and I allow customized things to be negotiated and developed to fit into the campaign, but only one or two things. I won't let everyone convince me that they need their own custom racial template, class, etc. And I typically involve a good mix of role-play and roll-play, so while I allow anything that suits my rules, I strongly advise you do something that would likely happen in the world. Not that you can't be unique, but I don't want a fiendish half-celestial illithid with a fae bloodline or something. XD
AntiDjinn 03-22-07, 05:57 PM	i dont ban anything. But i only allow PHB, PHB2 + Completes + Environment series. If they find it in those books they can use it. If they find it in another book they can't. Case closed. :) So material from Complete Psionic is OK, but the Expanded Psionic Handbook is not? How do you make use of such material? Psionic powers from the environment series are allowed, but not the psion?
UAMDB 03-22-07, 06:34 PM	Psionics Only cause I dont own the book, and dont really want to read the book either. Of course no one in my game has asked to play one. I dont have to ban Pkilling, and stealing from party members because...well I have a mature group. The youngest in my game is my wife and she is 25. After you get to a certain age most things like stealing from friends and killing PC's seems stupid.
Muspelheim 03-22-07, 07:13 PM	I allow most stuff, given the premise that players won't try to break the game, which really shouldn't be an issue so long as you have discussed what kind of campaign you want to run beforehand. That said, I have banned or changed quite a bit of stuff, both due to balance and setting concerns (mostly spells though). For instance: Entire polymorph line. Alot of divination spells along with long range teleportation (no scry'n'die). Antimagic Field Mage's Disjunction Rope Trick, along with similar spells. Comprehend Languages/Tongues Wraith Strike Force Cage Reverse Gravity No tanglefoot bags/dust of coughing and sneezing and similar items. Thought bottle. Animated shields. Shivering Touch Flight spells. Zone of Truth, Discern Lies and similar spells. Some of the above certainly is not overpowered per se, while some of it certainly is (or can be, depending on how you use it). However, some of the bans are for entirely thematic reasons, so as always how you want to tweak the rules (since almost all groups play with some kind of houserules in place, I'd think) depends alot on how you want the game to feel.
Daydreamer 03-22-07, 07:19 PM	Oh, i though we were only discussing banned material. Everyone has to be either good, or on rare exceptions lawful neutral or neutral. (NO EVIL) WE dont ban much actually though. me and my fellow pcs are all of the same mind on what we want. Low powered, gritty roleplaying without any power gaming. Generally bans require problem players...im glad to say we dont have any, and our dms great.
geekling 03-22-07, 07:25 PM	Outright banned (if that really is the right word for it): Frenzied berserker. Not so much banned as nope, sorry. In another campaign some other time perhaps but not this one: PCs with alignment - evil (although to be honest, that other campaign some other time where evil characters will fit - ain't gonna happen dude. At least not with me as the DM.) Dromites - no real reason for this, I like them. But at one time I had an idea for dromites that would make them unsuitable for PCs at least until much later in the campaign, if and when that idea came to pass. Which may or may not happen. Heavily discouraged, but there is a possibility if you show it to me and we talk it over I might allow it. Anything from a book not on the list as set out at the start of the campaign. (pretty much PHB, PHBII, Complete series, spell compendium, XPH) This includes races taken from the MM, such as thieflings, etc. Would kind of like to ban for no better reason than they smell. But haven't because I know that it would be silly and a pure DM powertripping thing. Barbarians / any class of that unhygenic flavour. Dwarves - or any character with a beard! Clean shaven dwarves are an exception. Can't trust a character with a beard! Beards are eeeeeeeeeviiiiiiil!
Thubby 03-22-07, 08:48 PM	i allow any and all wotc books published for the right set (and we have translated alot of older material to the new set).
LCD2YOU 03-22-07, 09:07 PM	Banned: Unearthed Erata, er, Arcana That book was trouble back in 1st edition. Full of things I believe are best for people who want absurd fantasy. Seems that it really hasn't changed much.
AntiDjinn 03-22-07, 10:25 PM	Dromites - no real reason for this, I like them. But at one time I had an idea for dromites that would make them unsuitable for PCs at least until much later in the campaign, if and when that idea came to pass. Which may or may not happen. Perfectly reasonable for a DM to reserve something for DM use only without banning it from the game. If you have an idea for the Dromite that would render them NPC or monster-only status then just tell the players: These are cool, but I am reserving them for a special to be thrown at the party. In a one game our DM reserved the Dervish. The servants of the BBEG were a cult of female monk-dervishes (they used the bladed fan instead of the scimitar, so when one of them did a "fan dance" the party could be sliced to ribbons). He told us not to do dervish builds because only the bad guys had access to this training and anyone who acted like a dervish would be assumed to be in league with the bad guy. No one complained thought; in a game with dozens of dervishes running around no PC wanted to be one. We didn't have one player whine because something was banned for PC's but fair game for the DM.
Splendide 03-22-07, 10:36 PM	I've banned the spell Life Ward (Spell Compendium) after I used it as a DM. Making the PC Fighter immune to all combat healing is a bit cruel.
Windbit 03-22-07, 10:36 PM	I'm just starting out, but here's what I've banned and restricted so far: -Gnomes (and maybe halflings) -Psionics (my personal view is that psionics should be reserved for d20 Modern) -Monks can only be from Asian-inspired lands (I'd like to use the Pugilist class currently on the class forum as a replacement in Europe-inspired lands) -most detect spells are severely limited (such as detect thoughts) or outright banned (detect alignment)
Gwenfloor 03-22-07, 10:38 PM	Banned: Frenzied Berserkers, Hulking Hurlers, Pun-Pun builds, Drizzt'Do'Urdlen clones, and selling your spell casting services, because over a week the party, who was 11th level, ended up with >100,000 gp!
Splendide 03-22-07, 10:48 PM	I'm just starting out, but here's what I've banned and restricted so far: -Gnomes:weep:
celtredleg 03-22-07, 11:19 PM	Evil PCs CN who think its a cheap way to be CS Palys who insist on being LS, but well played middle ages evil butt kickers are OK Psionics. Just tastes bad, and I dont care how much you whine that it is not the issue. PvP to include stealing. Any class that disrupts the party, thougfh the one FB I let in didnt do that, but then it was a really whacked party. It wasnt come up yet, but any magic I dont know, such as TOM or Incarnum, at least until I get and digest them. I do allow SS, and SP for just about any monster you can fit into a given party.
Yadot 03-22-07, 11:53 PM	Psionics, because I don't like it, sounds more X-men than D&D. Also don't want to have to figure a complicated system full of broken crap from what I know. Psionics? Complicated? Broken Crap:confused: I generally ban Save or Dies because I don't think they are heroic fantasy, Incarnum and Tome of Magic are out due to flavor (although I may allow Binder), Forgotten Realms material in an Eberron setting, and the more problamatic spells (such as Dysjuction and Shapechange).
Windbit 03-22-07, 11:59 PM	:weep: I may decide to include them in a future campaign world. I just felt there were already too many sentient races to choose from, and gnomes just happen to be my least favorite race from the PHB. Oh, that reminds me: -Only humans, dwarves, and elves can interbreed due to their similarities. All the other races can only breed with members of their own race. That means only half-elves (and possibly a half-dwarves) are allowed.
Sphyre 03-23-07, 12:18 AM	i dont ban anything. But i only allow PHB, PHB2 + Completes + Environment series. Weird... because I play with all 3.5 non-setting specific books (with some specific removals like wraithstrike, thought bottle, power word pain, etc) but I have environment series on a case-by-case basis. We're on two different sides of the spectrum.
OneWinged4ngel 03-23-07, 12:45 AM	A few things that I ban, which make it *really easy* to break the game: Persistent Spell (Feat), Wraithstrike (Spell), all of the Celerity line of spells (Spell), Polymorph (Spell), Polymorph Any Object (Spell), Rhino Rush (Spell), Nightsticks (Magic Item), Shivering Touch (Spell), Natural Spell (Feat), Valorous (Weapon Enchantment), Thought Bottle (Magic Item), Planar Shepherd (Prestige Class). -Thought Bottle lets you abuse the way you get XP. -Nightsticks let you abuse divine feats. -Persistent Spell makes you godly so long as you know how to get around the cost (not a hard thing to do at all). -Polymorph suck for all the reasons Wizards of the Coast themselves have noted over the years. -Shivering Touch lets you own a great wyrm at low level. -Natural Spell is a big factor in making Druids uber, and kinda takes away any sort of trade-off to wild shaping. They really don't need it. -Rhino Rush seems like a legacy from 3.0, going off of the old version of Rhino Armor as opposed to the newer version. Doubling damage on a charge as a swift action is not exactly what I would call in line with a first level spell. -Likewise, Valorous also doubles charging damages, making uberchargers that much more dangerous for a mere +1. Compare to a similar enchantment in the Magic Item Compendium: Charging. -The Celerity line of spells essentially let you take an extra turn every round, and is just adding a whole lot more nova power to a few classes that have more than enough already. -The Planar Shepherd is a no-brainer... it absolutely and completely breaks the game in a way comparable to Pun-Pun. If anything can be remotely compared to Pun-Pun, it has no place in a real game. Not only are these things overpowered, but if your character wants to create some of these effects (or something similar) for their character concept... there are plenty of lesser, more balanced alternatives to all of them. As a result, there's pretty much no reason to include this material in the game.
Someone 03-23-07, 12:49 AM	Not so much ban, more like "I've never heard of it, so no, you can't do that". Though this is highly dependent on what books people bring to the table, and its usually coupled with a willingness to review and possibly adapt the material. For example, I homebrewed a variant of the much-maligned frenzied berserker, such that they don't have a separate pool of frenzies (just a different version of a barbarian's "greater rage" ability), don't keep killing until the rage ends, but WILL make cleaves and AoOs against "friends" while raging (so giving them plenty of room is a good idea).
Ramses III 03-23-07, 01:33 AM	In my current Eberron campaign, I explicitly allow all classes and PrCs from the PHB, DMG, and ECS. Banned core material includes any race not in the PHB or ECS (other than goblins; I did allow one PC goblin and would again if someone wanted to play one), the feat Natural Spell, and the Wild Armor enhancement. I will also probably be banning Polymorph, Polymorph Any Object, and Shapechange. All other material to be considered for use in the game must be in a book I own so that I have full access to it, and must be approved by me on a case-by-case basis. The players have put a de facto ban on Frenzied Berserker because they don't want a PC potentially killing party members. They also know better than to ask me to allow something stupid or obviously broken. Explicitly banned material from non-core books I own: all of the Orb spells (they should have been printed as evocation and be subject to SR, and the lesser orb spells break the damage curve for level 1 spells), Scout (we just feel it steals too much of the Ranger's thunder), Favored Soul, the spell Miasma, all specifically Asian base classes except Ninja (which no one wants to play anyway as it's considered underpowered), Fochlucan Lyrist, Ur-Priest (and pretty much any abusive theurge-type build), Hulking Hurler, and Crusader (because I don't like the flavor and consider the mechanics of it badly designed).
Edwind 03-23-07, 01:37 AM	I ban a few things. Sensible things in my opinion. Being of Good alignment yet using poisons (if only to paralize) I don't care what you say, the act of using poison is an evil act, even if it is not doing harm. FB, at first I was fine with it. We hand a barb who was going to be come one, and I was a pretty big meatshield, with something like HP just into the hundreds, and an AC of 32 Full defence at...8th level? I figured I could handle it, until I realized the Barb had a +16 Attack Bonus. Catfolk...I don't know why... Pionics. I'm really to lazy to buy the book and actually learn it. Although, the need for it hasn't come up. Critical failures on skill checks. "Even though you STILL beat the DC by 4, you fall to your doom..." Really all I can think about at the moment. I'd like to think of myself as a reasonable DM, if someone presents me with something I find interesting I'll look at it and give my final opinion. Maybe not allow it, but give advise on how to modify it so I can be used.
FeceMan 03-23-07, 02:06 AM	Poisons aren't evil.
Sphyre 03-23-07, 03:53 AM	Poisons aren't evil. At least... not any more evil than using a sword is. :tongue:
danielinthewolvesden 03-23-07, 04:11 AM	Favored Soul,). Why the Favoured Soul? It is much less subject to abuse than the Cleric, and somewhat less powerful too.:confused: Edwind: you know that "Critical failures on skill checks" are not RAW, right?
Cryofdragon 03-23-07, 04:51 AM	I ban: Good alignments, Things I don't have
Senevri 03-23-07, 07:29 AM	FB, at first I was fine with it. We hand a barb who was going to be come one, and I was a pretty big meatshield, with something like HP just into the hundreds, and an AC of 32 Full defence at...8th level? I figured I could handle it, until I realized the Barb had a +16 Attack Bonus. ...So you ban plain barbarians with 18 str and +2 weapons? That AC is way high for a barbarian of that level, though... Even if, in full defence, he won't be attacking, he still has, what, 26 AC? lessee... steel shield, full plate gets to 21, so getting to 25 is relatively easy... okay, so one +2 AC increaser and three +1 ones.
Critalondel 03-23-07, 08:10 AM	The only thing I outright say "no" to at my tables is Psionics, and that's just because I dislike having traditional fantasy spellcasting and weird mental powers in the same game -- were I to have a homebrewed planet where Psionics was the only "magic" I'd probably be fine with it. As far as classes, prestige classes, feats, and other weird stuff goes, my rule has always been "show it to me, and we'll see." Power creep is a very real concern, and everyone in my gaming group has their own personal amount of cash to spend on books (so while one guy might just have the basic stuff, another might have every "Complete" book printed, etc) -- so I like to take a look at stuff and make sure it's not going to be an issue before I allow it. Products from non-Wizards publishers are especially scrutinized, a lot of the outsider party feats and PrCs can be very broken (we learned that the hard way, early in the open gaming license era, when we still assumed "d20 = balanced").
Zumarai 03-23-07, 09:00 AM	-Dastana -Sarrukh
HagerHobbit 03-23-07, 11:45 AM	Persistent Spell (Feat), Wraithstrike (Spell), all of the Celerity line of spells (Spell), Polymorph (Spell), Polymorph Any Object (Spell), Rhino Rush (Spell), Nightsticks (Magic Item), Shivering Touch (Spell), Natural Spell (Feat), Valorous (Weapon Enchantment), Thought Bottle (Magic Item), Planar Shepherd (Prestige Class). I just recently Banned Persistent Spell myself... due to Artificers and Divine Metamagic. I haven't quite figured out why you have natural spell listed. Or Rhino Rush.
Muspelheim 03-23-07, 12:19 PM	I just recently Banned Persistent Spell myself... due to Artificers and Divine Metamagic. I haven't quite figured out why you have natural spell listed. Or Rhino Rush. While I personally don't ban natural spell, I can certainly see why it's in the category of potential things to ban. The things is that with natural spell a druid doesn't have to ever come out of wildshape which means he can be a total melee monster while still being a full caster with all the power that entails. Without natural spell, the druid has to make a choice between the two at any given time. While Rhino Rush might not be anywhere near campaign breaker status, it does make stuff like ubercharges much easier - and it's a level 1 spell which casts as a swift action. I tend to dislike nova damage as well since it can pretty much reduce combat to the initiative roll; sure, casters can do similar things with save-or-dies and various other stuff, but it's usually somewhat easier to have a very high ab, compared to very high DCs.
Tazi Swiftblade 03-23-07, 12:32 PM	I don't allow psionics. And I have to OK any prestige class that gets brought into the game. Some of the prestige classes, in my opinion, can throw the game out of whack or are just plain silly.
High Octane 03-23-07, 12:33 PM	Straight up banned: Double Axe, Double Sword, Spiked Chain. I realize this is a game of fantasy where people can turn bat guano ito a sphere of FIRE with a few words, but there is a line of suspension of disbelief I will not cross. The double axe and double sword are weapons that no one could master even if it was possible since you would have hacked your own arms or head off in the process (see swordchucks). The spiked chain....just no. Frenzied berserker obviously is banned from PC classes, and as a DM I would never have a Frenzied berserker travel with anyone, but they may face one alone. I am considering banning the improved manyshot feat. Combined with scouts it is just SICK, as is with initiate of the bow. Also I am considering either upping the cost or banning the splitter enchantment. Although I ban psionics, I dont have a problem with them. I just dont think they fit into my campaign. Now I just need some damned players who will play in my campaign.
Herecgunina 03-23-07, 12:43 PM	I ban: Good alignments Huh??
Rump_Wrangler 03-23-07, 12:43 PM	Now I just need some damned players who will play in my campaign. Where do you live (I'm sick of DMing)?
High Octane 03-23-07, 12:54 PM	Where do you live (I'm sick of DMing)? Maryland
Ash the blackcowl 03-23-07, 01:33 PM	Basically we use the basics :) Anything extra feat or class must be justified by research, training or seeing an opponent using it so they try to mimic the feat. This allows me to check the new feat or class prior to having it blow apart a session of gaming. It is also more 'realistic' pun as the characters have to justify how they are learning something that is beyond what would be 'normal' Remember Player Characters die....:) Imatash I am the same way. I was very liberal in my recently completed SCAP and well not out of hand by most scales, it got a little further away than I would have liked.
CCS 03-23-07, 01:57 PM	.Psionics - I've never liked them no matter what edition. Oh I'll use a midflayer or two evey now & then as a villan, but that's the extent of it. Other than my occasional mindflayer usage I've only allowed 1 psionic character (2nd ed) in the past 25 years. .Most requests to play various types of monsters/non-core humanoids get declined. (Unless I'm running something set on Krynn. Then I'll allow for minotaurs.) Why? Because typically the person asking for such a character is only trying to power-game. And they can already do that well enough with the core material - especially here in 3.5. Every now & then though.... .Things that will not ever be available as PCs in my games are vampires, 99.9% of other undead, and any type of dragon(full, 1/2, spellscale, whatever & etc.). Nor will there be PC demons/devils/gods/demi-gods running about. I simply don't write adventures/settings that accomodate that type of play in this game.
Archangel_yuki 03-23-07, 02:19 PM	I ban things as i go along. If something is wrong, then I will allow it to be used for that one session if its almost over, or I will just ban it outright from the game. I am a rather generous DM, and my players know that. Besides, that whole anything you can do I can do better rule? I tell them that alot. I am an extremely fast reader, and can memorize something after one read. I can make a min/max character without looking at books if I really need too.
lastknightleft 03-23-07, 03:08 PM	Psionics, just not a fan and don't want to learn Any class (note that I didn't say PrCs) that has armored mage (don't like the flavor of armored mage) and bards select a bonus skill feat instead (bards are proficient, they just have to take the penalty) Classes out of books I don't own Classes that don't fit the campaign
Treymordin 03-23-07, 03:09 PM	If it an official product and fits within the particular campaign world then we use it.
Onikani 03-23-07, 03:16 PM	So material from Complete Psionic is OK, but the Expanded Psionic Handbook is not? How do you make use of such material? Psionic powers from the environment series are allowed, but not the psion? Its a nifty way to keep psionics out, isn't it? :D
AntiDjinn 03-23-07, 08:40 PM	Its a nifty way to keep psionics out, isn't it? :D Except it allows the ardent and lurk, both of whom are manifesters. It also allows the divine mind, if any players actually want to play one. Technically, it allows the erudite as well. Leaving out the XPH also leaves out several general feats such as Standstill and Deadly Precision (even the author has not explained why those feats are in the psionics book, it just seems they had the material written and the XPH was the next hardbound due to be published).
Exquisite_Flopilidopilies 03-23-07, 08:59 PM	Ring of Sustenance is game breaking? It might. Not every game is an arena. Lots of things that aren't game-breaking power-wise break it in other ways: like guns, for example. Guns can be implemented in a non-combat-breaking manner but are excluded from most games for the very good reason that We Don't Want To Play That. I admit I don't really like ring of sustenance and other things that take the characters out of reality. I know it's old hat by now to compare D&D games unfavorably with video games, but having something that means you never have to worry about provisions lends that flavor to me. It's not so much banned as the sort of thing that Just Isn't Available. Same thing with some modes of travel (I like the feeling that the world is a big place, and the places within it separated by long distances) and that sort of thing. Breaking these notions might break my game, even if it doesn't break combat.
drkknight32 03-24-07, 10:46 PM	I usually don't allow any classes or Prestiges that don't fit with the campaign first off. No Psionics (Because I'm really to lazy to read through the book) Nothing beyond the Cores (Unless its a group of experience players) No characters with a level adjustment (Unless we're going to start out from at least level 2 and the player actually knows what that +1 means for leveling up)
DarkRhystar 03-24-07, 11:09 PM	Psionics, because <snip> full of broken crap from what I know. Banned: Unearthed Erata, er, Arcana That book was trouble back in 1st edition. Full of things I believe are best for people who want absurd fantasy. Seems that it really hasn't changed much. Explicitly banned material from non-core books I own: all of the Orb spells (they should have been printed as evocation and be subject to SR, and the lesser orb spells break the damage curve for level 1 spells), Scout (we just feel it steals too much of the Ranger's thunder), Favored Soul, the spell Miasma, all specifically Asian base classes except Ninja (which no one wants to play anyway as it's considered underpowered), Fochlucan Lyrist, Ur-Priest (and pretty much any abusive theurge-type build), Hulking Hurler, and Crusader (because I don't like the flavor and consider the mechanics of it badly designed). Straight up banned: Double Axe, Double Sword, Spiked Chain. Wow. People ban some strange things. As a side note: I am considering banning the improved manyshot feat. Combined with scouts it is just SICK, as is with initiate of the bow. You do realize that Greater Manyshot cannot be combined with the Precision damage of Order of the Bow Initiate (assuming "initiate of the bow" is just a misnomer of the aforementioned) because they both require standard actions? I wonder just how many people ban things because of an incorrect understanding of how they work... Good advice worth seeing again: There are three good reason to ban such stuff: 1. The class is naturally disruptive. The Frenzied Berserker. Along those lines also are mixed alignments, party theives and Pkers. 2. It does not fit your world- example Psionics or Oriental classes. 3. You are not familiar with the rules for something, and you need to be to DM it correctly : Psionics, the book Truename magic came from, Incarnum, and so forth.
PhaedrusXY 03-24-07, 11:11 PM	I like optimizing, so I allow just about anything. I do have some house rules and do ban a few things, however. Here is the section covering that: 25) Any other feats, spells, or Prestige Classes not mentioned above, but published in any WotC publication will probably be allowed, pending DM approval. A few items that I will not allow in their published form are: The Thought Bottle, the Mage Slayer feat, and a couple of other feats in Complete Arcane that allow you to ignore and/or pierce magical protections. I've buffed melee up enough and allow enough source material to not need this stuff I think. And the Thought Bottle is just "broken". The full list of house rules can be found in my sig.
Kursk 03-24-07, 11:51 PM	I admit I don't really like ring of sustenance and other things that take the characters out of reality. I know it's old hat by now to compare D&D games unfavorably with video games, but having something that means you never have to worry about provisions lends that flavor to me. It's not so much banned as the sort of thing that Just Isn't Available. Banning for flavor reasons is legit.
Aryxbez 03-24-07, 11:55 PM	Me and my friend have been wanting to know this for a while now, what is so powerful about the Ur Priest?
nightwyrm 03-25-07, 02:29 AM	Me and my friend have been wanting to know this for a while now, what is so powerful about the Ur Priest? Extremely quick divine spell progression, getting 9th level spells in just 10 levels of ur-priest.
drkknight32 03-25-07, 04:08 AM	I actually forgot to mention my friends tactic for deciding what books to allow in his campaign. Firstly...The three core books are allowed. Secondly...Any other books are allowed, but only if you buy that book for the DM Nice way to increase your collection of books :evillaugh:
CharlieRock 03-25-07, 08:07 AM	Banned psionics (but for stylistic reasons.) And the Book of 9 Swords (for having crappy style). And the Vampire Werewolf on the D&D homepage. (for being ill-concieved.) Funny how most of the 'banned' stuff in our campaign is WotC material, yet nothing from 3rd party has yet had such treatment.
Karish 03-25-07, 08:26 AM	Forgot one; nonhumanoid characters. No offense, but if the common folk of my world (A fairly magic-suspicious and dark age place) see some wolf that talks (like a friend of mine asked) or see a bunch of magical creatures, they're killing them.
feartheinvinceblehamster 03-25-07, 10:43 AM	Elves, half-elves, and Halflings are banned. Why? Seriously, WHY? I hate ninjas, and they suck as a class, in my opinion. But I'll still let people play them. PKing in all its digusting forms. I don't ban PKing actually. Sometimes someone does something so stupid the other PCs are obviously going to want to kill them. Burning down towns, causing massive amounts of collateral damage, killing civilians, getting them arrested, assasinating leaders, running away from a fight with the BBEG, etc. Chaotic Neutral (until proven they can play it properly, too many play it as chaotic evil but without showing on detect evil). The best example of Chaotic Neutral I have heard was an epic character. One day he gave paladins directions through his forest-because he knew they were trying to attack a group of...something, which would cause a massive amount of disorder. A few days later (I think) he kicked a teenager off a cliff for disobeying him. Unpredictable in the extreme. I think most crazy PCs should probably be Chaotic Neutral.
danielinthewolvesden 03-25-07, 02:19 PM	I don't ban PKing actually. Sometimes someone does something so stupid the other PCs are obviously going to want to kill them. Burning down towns, causing massive amounts of collateral damage, killing civilians, getting them arrested, assasinating leaders, running away from a fight with the BBEG, etc. . Well (in my games), in the kinds of examples you give- the PC would have been converted to an Evil NPC, at which time killing him is not PKing.
Sphyre 03-25-07, 03:12 PM	Ninja class, because I had a bad run in with a player who played a ninja, because of that I got rid him and the class, as well as the Ring of Sustenance. Because i don't want to lose any players over something so stupid. I once had a bad player who played a cleric. I didn't ban clerics... Ninja (which no one wants to play anyway as it's considered underpowered), Fochlucan Lyrist, Ur-Priest (and pretty much any abusive theurge-type build), Hulking Hurler, and Crusader (because I don't like the flavor and consider the mechanics of it badly designed). Interesting. I have a ninja in a 12th level game now (originally from level 3) and he's rather strong. The ability to go invisible is very strong if you pretty much keep it exclusive to only combat. Sure you can run out - but if you dish a world of hurt in those rounds, you can cut the number of rounds you need it out by quite a few. I hate ninjas, and they suck as a class, in my opinion. But I'll still let people play them. Suck in what way? Sneak attack applies to more, yes, but the ninja gets a lot of other tricks in place of it. I think it evens out - maybe is a bit more in the ninja's favor if played correctly. All this anti-ninja stuff confuses me :P Esspecially when people say it sucks.
OneWinged4ngel 03-25-07, 03:29 PM	I just recently Banned Persistent Spell myself... due to Artificers and Divine Metamagic. I haven't quite figured out why you have natural spell listed. Or Rhino Rush. Rhino Rush is a "best choice" spell, and it goes against the whole trend of knocking down the rhino effects to dice instead of doublings in 3.5. It seemed like a legacy spell to me. Anyways, it makes it very easy for a low level character to do in the realm of a few hundred damage. Natural Spell makes it so that there's pretty much no downside to wild shaping, and is generally considered a "must have" (better than anything else) feat as well as a big part of why druids can be pretty crazy. Wild Shape is powerful enough without it.
Rolzup 03-25-07, 04:33 PM	I've yet to formalize this, but this seems as good a time as any.... *Ahem* "I like to think that I'm a reasonable person, and I'm operating under the assumption that the players are all reasonable people as well. So if it turns out that a spell/race/magic item/class ability (or some combination thereof) is too powerful or problematic, I'll probably ask you to change it, adjust it, or simply not to abuse it." That really should be all that I need, other than any campaign-specific stuff. If I've got players who can't accept this, they're really not the folks that I want to game with in any case, y'know?
zvbxrpl 03-25-07, 05:03 PM	Use of material from the Races Of The Wild. Sorry, but I don't buy that elves mature normally then just stop aging and for some reason don't feel comfortable leaving home for oh, 80 YEARS AFTER REACHING ADULTHOOD! Also, raptorans=BIG NO Old 3.0 splatbooks, e.g. Sword and Fist. We have this thing called the Complete Series now. It's very useful, and usually better-balanced than the old ones with the exception of... The two big offenders from CW: Hulking Hurler and Friendly-fire Berserker. BOED and BOVD. 'Nuff said. Mordenkainen's Disjunction. This is more a mutual agreement between my players and I not to spring it on each other. Also, not a banning, but if one player uses gestalts, they all do, and most major NPCs will also be gestalt.
narukagami 03-25-07, 06:40 PM	Mordenkainen's Disjunction. This is more a mutual agreement between my players and I not to spring it on each other. The funny thing about that spell is that its only effect is to screw over players. If used on them, bye bye equipment, if used on their enemies, bye bye treasure.
ElvenRngDM333 03-25-07, 09:39 PM	Well, I have the PHB, DMG, Complete Divine, Complete Adventurer, Complete Warrior, and book of Exalted Deeds. Of those books, it is my choices which are allowed in my world. I haven't had any complaints from any players and everything that I allow is on my RedBlade program, so they can access all the material from one source. Basically, I read the books, check each feat, new base class, PrC's and then decide on which ones fit the flavor, style, or outright logic of my campaign world. Also, I only use the PHB for spells. There are already a ton of spells in that book (at least to me there are), and I don't want to deal with six different books for referencing spells.
Thubby 03-25-07, 10:03 PM	Also, I only use the PHB for spells. There are already a ton of spells in that book (at least to me there are), and I don't want to deal with six different books for referencing spells. you may want to consider spell compendium, is pretty much every spell up till now compressed into 1 book. so just that and phb for reference.
Alastor_Sevryn 03-25-07, 10:58 PM	Books: Book of Exalted Deeds Book of Vile Darkness Book of Erotic Fantasy These either tend to break one character (Exalted/vile), or just introduce so much useless bulls*it (erotic fantasy) that doesn't contribute to the game in any way. Prostitute Sorc: I cast cursed orgasm on everyone around! They all take 1d6 points of damage! DM (me): And the purpose of that is...? Sorc: *Smirks* Because i can. Me: :banghead: The Balor Demon standing behind you attacks. It rolls a natural 20. It's carrying a vorpal longsword. The king of *country* would like to inform you that your daughter is dead because she was stupid. :D Classes: Psionics Too overly broken, and I'll allow pretty much anything class-wise into a campaign, including created classes. Races: Monstrous Humanoids Anything with a level adjustment higher than +2 The bonuses that they get become too powerful. I've only been DM'ing for a little while, not even a year. The power of some of these races makes it too hard for a somewhat rookie DM to challenge the group. Skills/feats: I don't tend to ban skills or feats. I don't see any reason to. Even the most powerful feat has a drawback that balances it. Items: Skill competency bonuses I don't know which book these are in, I think it might be DMG...not sure...but those items that can give you up to +30 max to any skill for mod squared x 100. if you get the gold together, that's +30 to something like hide or move silently for 90,000 gp. Sorry, but no. I'll allow up to +5 for that, but only if it fits the character.
FeceMan 03-26-07, 01:53 AM	Why does everyone think the psionics system is broken?
Needle 03-26-07, 02:08 AM	Evil PC's Player vs Player combat Stealing from other players Ridiculous races/templates (common/ fairly normal things like Kobolds, Centaurs etc are fine. Vampires/ridiculous templates are not) No damage stacking on weapons (sure, it can be flaming. Double flaming or flaming/cold isnt)
Spinal_Tap 03-26-07, 06:54 AM	-Raptorans -Dastana -Save or Die spells -Tweaks to Diplomacy – no sauntering up to Llolth and saying: "Hey, baby, that spider web would look great rolled up in a ball next to my bed." *rolls insane Diplomacy check* Llolth’s response: "I like a man who's direct."
CharlieRock 03-26-07, 07:56 AM	Why does everyone think the psionics system is broken? I use psionics in Silver Age Sentinels, BESM, or GURPS Supers. Where it fits the theme. ;)
Spinal_Tap 03-26-07, 08:02 AM	I use psionics in Silver Age Sentinels, BESM, or GURPS Supers. Where it fits the theme. ;) What about a Dark Sun campaign?
CharlieRock 03-26-07, 08:08 AM	What about a Dark Sun campaign? Read some of it. Never actually played it. Loved the artwork. Seems to have inspired Frank Miller's stuff. (though may be the other way around.)
Zumarai 03-26-07, 08:57 AM	Read some of it. Never actually played it. Loved the artwork. Do you mean Gerald Brom (awesome) or Thomas Baxa (horrendous)?
CharlieRock 03-26-07, 09:00 AM	Do you mean Gerald Brom (awesome) or Thomas Baxa (horrendous)? This stuff: http://members.cox.net/dragons_sanctum/Part2.jpg Makes me want to yell, "SPAAARTAAA!" and kick someone down a hole-in-the-ground.
Zumarai 03-26-07, 09:04 AM	This stuff: http://members.cox.net/dragons_sanctum/Part2.jpg Makes me want to yell, "SPAAARTAAA!" and kick someone down a hole-in-the-ground. Yes, that would be Brom – kick ass!
CharlieRock 03-26-07, 09:07 AM	Yes, that would be Brom – kick ass! Thanks for his name (I forgot). Now to spear someone in slo-mo ... :cool: P.S. LATE BREAKING NEWS! Brom will be doing a live talk and slide show presentation at the Gnomon Workshop in Hollywood California, Saturday March 31st http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/events.html
Count Arioch the 28th 03-26-07, 09:16 AM	I have but two real rules. 1. Don't play anything that relies on an infinite loop combo (Pun-pun, Wish and Word, hulking hurler/war hulk, etc.) 2. Don't play a character that is blatantly disruptive to party dynamics (Frenzied berserker, party thieves, PK'ing, etc.) I remind rule 2 doubly for anyone that wants to play any evil, chaotic neutral, or a paladin. However, if the player can find in-character reasons not to be a jerk to the other players, I will allow evil alignments, paladins, and chaotic neutral. (I have a chaotic neutral character in my party and so far he's working out pretty good, in this case it's his greed and the fact that teamwork can accomplish more than what he can do by himself that keeps him honest.)
CharlieRock 03-26-07, 09:20 AM	He also did the cover of Dragon #279 (http://paizo.com/store/paizo/dragon/issues/2001/279) :D http://www.bromart.com/gallery/DarkPast/images/Dritz.jpg
Zumarai 03-26-07, 10:11 AM	He also did the cover of Dragon #279 (http://paizo.com/store/paizo/dragon/issues/2001/279) :D http://www.bromart.com/gallery/DarkPast/images/Dritz.jpg It's good, but we still have a drow with that irritating, purplish/bluish/grey skin that most artists seem to insist on portraying instead of the inky black loveliness that drow have. Plus he looks to thick and beefy for a drow. The worst Drow art definitely has to be those revolting Jon Bon Jovi hairstyle Drizzt covers on Sojourn and what not. One of the best pictures of a Drow, IMO, has to be the original picture in the 1st edition Fiend Folio…or was it MMII?
CharlieRock 03-26-07, 10:17 AM	One of the best pictures of a Drow, IMO, has to be the original picture in the 1st edition Fiend Folio…or was it MMII? Fiend Folio (the lighting makes them look greyish ;)) Edit: Old school drow http://paizo.com/image/product/catalog/TSR/TSR9021_500.jpeg
Zumarai 03-26-07, 10:23 AM	Fiend Folio (the lighting makes them look greyish …Underground?
CharlieRock 03-26-07, 10:25 AM	…Underground? Yeah, they drop the disco ball and pa-artay(!) when no adventurers are looking. (the priestesses of Lolth don't even have to change into their "Come and get it" clothes. :P)
Count Arioch the 28th 03-26-07, 11:05 AM	It's good, but we still have a drow with that irritating, purplish/bluish/grey skin that most artists seem to insist on portraying instead of the inky black loveliness that drow have. You can't draw that and have it look good. The only drow pics I've seen that had them pitch black were the terrible 1E illustrations that looked like crap.
Zumarai 03-26-07, 11:08 AM	You can't draw that and have it look good. I think it could be done. I've seen some cool art (comic book and other), which depicts characters/creatures that are jet black and it looked great.
CharlieRock 03-26-07, 11:09 AM	You can't draw that and have it look good. The only drow pics I've seen that had them pitch black were the terrible 1E illustrations that looked like crap. This one looks pretty good. :) http://www.castledevelopmentgroup.com/PostNuke/albums/userpics/10169/normal_Drow_Princess001.jpg But, yeah. Needs better tone for lighting and details.
Zumarai 03-26-07, 11:09 AM	Yeah, they drop the disco ball and pa-artay The drow disco album – it went adamantine.
CharlieRock 03-26-07, 11:11 AM	The drow disco album – it went adamantine. oh my guh ... :rofl: (that was so bad I had to laugh)
Zumarai 03-26-07, 11:13 AM	This one looks pretty good. :) http://www.castledevelopmentgroup.com/PostNuke/albums/userpics/10169/normal_Drow_Princess001.jpg Yeah, not bad, but she has a bit of a thick waist.
Zumarai 03-26-07, 11:14 AM	oh my guh ... :rofl: (that was so bad I had to laugh) That was my bad pun for the day (at least it made you smile)!
CharlieRock 03-26-07, 11:18 AM	Yeah, not bad, but she has a bit of a thick waist. hmm...:dancin: I like thick drow, and I cannot lie those other elves can't deny when a drow walks in with that inky black waist and that round thing in your face you get sp.... oops :blush: (lyrics that'll get me banned followed)
TwiddleStootch 03-26-07, 11:34 AM	My group and I still don't have many books (just the core three and Complete Warrior), so there isn't much to ban :D But what I have banned is: NO Save-or-Die anything. This is a mutual agreement between me and the players, none of us was the Heroes to die due to one bad roll, it's just not cool. No Frenzied Berserker. Like I even needed to say it :rolleyes: No Evil. Period. Any PC that becomes evil is immediately made a NPC. Monster Races/Templates are allowed only at DM approval, and in general NO 'Usually/Always Evil' monsters are allowed. So no, you can not play a CG Vampire Half-Fiend :p Aside from that, everything in PHB, DMG and CW is allowed. For anything else, Ask the DM :cool:
CharlieRock 03-26-07, 11:35 AM	That was killer, :D
CharlieRock 03-26-07, 11:36 AM	No Evil. Period. Any PC that becomes evil is immediately made a NPC. Good thing that isn't the other way around ... "But, I don't want to play the halfling merchant."
Critalondel 03-26-07, 02:13 PM	He also did the cover of Dragon #279 (http://paizo.com/store/paizo/dragon/issues/2001/279) :D http://www.bromart.com/gallery/DarkPast/images/Dritz.jpg I remember that picture. I remember loving it, 'till I realize it was supposed to be Drizzt.
TwiddleStootch 03-26-07, 02:45 PM	Good thing that isn't the other way around ... "But, I don't want to play the halfling merchant." HA HA! Now there's an awesome idea for a campaign: DM:"Ok guys, I am sick and tired of having to do everthing, so from now on you have to run every non-evil NPC. Have fun role-playing with your self." Players: :uh-huh:
Thubby 03-26-07, 03:13 PM	DM:"Ok guys, I am sick and tired of having to do everthing, so from now on you have to run every non-evil NPC. Have fun role-playing with your self." Players: :uh-huh: i used to do that with my "group", it was just me and my DM, so i'd often end up playing more than 1 character. nothing like having your parent walk down and see you talking to yourself... we have since gotten more players :P
CharlieRock 03-26-07, 03:22 PM	HA HA! Now there's an awesome idea for a campaign: DM:"Ok guys, I am sick and tired of having to do everthing, so from now on you have to run every non-evil NPC. Have fun role-playing with your self." Players: :uh-huh: :heehee i used to do that with my "group", it was just me and my DM, so i'd often end up playing more than 1 character. nothing like having your parent walk down and see you talking to yourself... we have since gotten more players :P You think that was wierd? How about getting caught at work practicing your evil monologue for whenever the players finally meet the Dread Overlord of Draxxis. "And now ,prepare to meet your doom! Muahahaha ... hey, boss."
The Jake 03-26-07, 08:39 PM	I try to allow everything unless it looks like it will be game breaking. So far I've only banned the spells Anyspell and Greater Anyspell and Nightsticks. I think that would be the final clincher on why not to play a cleric over a wizard and I'm sick of WotC trying to make clerics insanely more powerful than wizards just so people can play them. If the ability to resurrect people, heal them, cast 9th level spells and wear full plate isn't reason enough to play a cleric then you have no right playing one in the first place.
Paneki 03-26-07, 09:42 PM	It really depends on the Players and the Campaing. If they are new players, they get access only to Core. If they are experienced players (or the new players really learned how to play) they get access to everything I own. If I don't own it, they have to lend it to me. Or give me a copy or something. Next to that, depends on the world setting. And right now, I'm playing a poupurri campaing, Everything allowed. And yet, haven't found a problem. Mainly because the players want to start with core only. Besides, if the class, race, or PrC is something exotic, I ask for in-game reasons to join the party, be in that place, alingment etc.
HagerHobbit 03-27-07, 02:37 PM	Me and my friend have been wanting to know this for a while now, what is so powerful about the Ur Priest? Ur-Priest is a 10 level Prestige class that has a very fast spell progression. I think at level 1 you get 1st level spells, level 2 you get 2nd level spells all the way up to level 9 you get 9th level spells. When used in conjunction with Mystic Thuerge you get something like this: Wiz3,Cle3,Ur-Priest 1, Mystic Theurge 10, Incantrix 3, For Wizard Spellcaster Level Essentially 16th (8th spells) and Cleric Spells 9th level
CharlieRock 03-27-07, 02:41 PM	Ur-Priest is a 10 level Prestige class that has a very fast spell progression. I think at level 1 you get 1st level spells, level 2 you get 2nd level spells all the way up to level 9 you get 9th level spells. When used in conjunction with Mystic Thuerge you get something like this: Wiz3,Cle3,Ur-Priest 1, Mystic Theurge 10, Incantrix 3, For Wizard Spellcaster Level Essentially 16th (8th spells) and Cleric Spells 9th level Aren't Ur-priests supposed to be bad guys?
Sphyre 03-27-07, 03:23 PM	Aren't Ur-priests supposed to be bad guys? Evil doesn't always mean you're bad... :tongue: I'm currently playing in a campaign where I'm facing a god that is so freaking good, he's the enemy of the entire world.
nightwyrm 03-27-07, 03:26 PM	Aren't Ur-priests supposed to be bad guys? They're suppose to be evil. But that's pretty much just campaign flavor. If all your gods are evil, are you really evil for rebelling/stealing from them? LOL
Count Arioch the 28th 03-27-07, 04:22 PM	Wiz3,Cle3,Ur-Priest 1, Mystic Theurge 10, Incantrix 3, For Wizard Spellcaster Level Essentially 16th (8th spells) and Cleric Spells 9th level Question. What are the cleric levels there for? They're adding practically nothing to the build.
CharlieRock 03-27-07, 05:33 PM	Evil doesn't always mean you're bad... :tongue: I'm currently playing in a campaign where I'm facing a god that is so freaking good, he's the enemy of the entire world. Using this book? (http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showbook&bookid=4655) It does have a feature for using Good as bad in a campaign. They're suppose to be evil. But that's pretty much just campaign flavor. If all your gods are evil, are you really evil for rebelling/stealing from them? LOL Um , sure. I guess. :thinks:
lastknightleft 03-27-07, 05:39 PM	When used in conjunction with Mystic Thuerge you get something like this: Wiz3,Cle3,Ur-Priest 1, Mystic Theurge 10, Incantrix 3, For Wizard Spellcaster Level Essentially 16th (8th spells) and Cleric Spells 9th level Yeah, and as a DM if you just ban that kind of cheese in the first place Ur-priest isn't that broken.
Bobby_Da_Fish 03-27-07, 06:50 PM	The only thing I've heard with issues is the Frenzied Berserker. I would engineer an enemy that can stop the berserker in his tracks. (a NPC with time-stop?) Or I would balance the Frenzied Berserker's abilities so they aren't so.... unbalanced So basically, I don't ban anything. Just mess with them.
Sphyre 03-28-07, 12:34 AM	Using this book? (http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showbook&bookid=4655) It does have a feature for using Good as bad in a campaign. Nope... My DM is an extremely seasoned player. He's been playing D&D for like 25+ years. The last campaign we had, we accidentally ended the campaign freeing a good god who was imprisoned in a prison for gods. My character actually became so evil that he took the god's place in the prison. But the problem was, he was imprisoned in the prison for a reason - and he used us, and lied to us to get him out. He was a god of life. He gives life to everything. No matter what it is, no matter if it wants to die. Everything lives. He brought the badlands - a barren waste back to life. Dead animals, dead people, they all came back to life. The god has no judgement on what deserves to be returned to life, and when it's proper to. He's throwing off the balance and terrible things are happening because death is being overthrown. My character for this campaign is a Hellbred Cleric... which really neat because he's a good character who can use evil spells without reprocussions. It just seems very fitting for my character to see that taking care of this sitution would be a task fitted esspecially for him.
CharlieRock 03-28-07, 02:01 AM	Nope... My DM is an extremely seasoned player. He's been playing D&D for like 25+ years. The last campaign we had, we accidentally ended the campaign freeing a good god who was imprisoned in a prison for gods. My character actually became so evil that he took the god's place in the prison. But the problem was, he was imprisoned in the prison for a reason - and he used us, and lied to us to get him out. He was a god of life. He gives life to everything. No matter what it is, no matter if it wants to die. Everything lives. He brought the badlands - a barren waste back to life. Dead animals, dead people, they all came back to life. The god has no judgement on what deserves to be returned to life, and when it's proper to. He's throwing off the balance and terrible things are happening because death is being overthrown. My character for this campaign is a Hellbred Cleric... which really neat because he's a good character who can use evil spells without reprocussions. It just seems very fitting for my character to see that taking care of this sitution would be a task fitted esspecially for him. Reminds me of the Terry Pratchett novel (discworld series) where Death quit his/it's job. :)
Death Unlimited 03-28-07, 08:40 AM	Im in the boat of more campaign-specific bans for the most part. Well, a few things outright: Frenzied Berzerker(as so many other people) Warhulk, Hulking Hurler(simply no need to be PCs.) Classes/Races/Spells/Feats/Etc that don't fit into a particular world. In a sand world, Frost Mage wouldn't be viable, for instance. But in a northern adventure, Frost mages would be welcome. I simply use this on a case by case basis and let everyone know what races/classes are allowed in any given campaign world, and if there are any spell/feat list changes. Discouraged, but not banned: Some of the really 'out there' races. Some may be banned in different worlds; for example, in my homebrew world, there are no Goliaths, so a player can't play one. If someone wants to play an 'out there' race in a typical D&D world, ask. Some PrCs, like Dragon Disciple. I see too many people take them just to get the big Str bonus, and im not too keen on that. (Minmaxing it to have minimum caster levels needed before taking this and fighter levels, for instance.) If you give me a good enough reason, ill think about it. (Ie, youre not doing it just for the bonuses.) Races with a high ECL/LA. This is more for the player's benefit. I let them know that some of them are going to be at a HARSH disadvantage. Im perfectly happy with letting people play paladins/evil characters, should they want, so long as they aren't jerks about it. If you play a character/alignment well, more power to you. However, if a party, say already consists of 3 N characters and one LE character, i would try to discourage someone bringing in a paladin just for sanity's sake, though a CG character might well be able to hang so long as everyone was reasonable. I dont like to go heavy on banning, i havn't ran into too many power issues in my campaigns yet. And yes, even with druids. Maybe i got lucky there. ;)
Zetakya 03-28-07, 08:55 AM	Psionics. They were broken when I made the setting, so the setting excluded them, and I'm not going to retro-fudge them in now. Plus I don't like the overall flavour. Any class (full or PrC) that is setting specific to another setting. Most of the other PrCs (any PrC that's simply a minor variant on an existing character class, but with a crutch for poor RPing) The current campaign is also Human-only, but that's campaign specific. On the other hand, I'm generally pretty lenient with generating and allowing Feats to enable a character to develop their own style.
HagerHobbit 03-29-07, 10:20 AM	Question. What are the cleric levels there for? They're adding practically nothing to the build. I don't quite recall the entire build...but I think you have to give up Previous Divine Casting to qualify. Because you're now stealing spells from the god that granted the Divine spells.
LCD2YOU 03-29-07, 10:57 AM	Actually, my players have "banned" several books by themselves. See, I'll use a monster or PrC or two from many of the splat books but they are very rare and serve up only as the RRBBEG (Really, Really BBEG). If they want 1/2 Troll-Red Dragon half breeds with the Half-Vampire and whatever else sounds munchkin-like, guess what? I can come up with a whole slew of wierd combos too. Besides, the group I'm in prefers a "more realistic, low magic setting" than high fantasy and I'm glad.
ShadowDragon8685 03-29-07, 01:04 PM	Frenzied Berzerker, any non-Good player characters, any player in-fighting.
SilverEyes 03-29-07, 03:25 PM	* The house rule is that you can just forgo the racial HD for a race. So a Lvl 1 Fighter lizardfolk (+1 LA, 2 racial HD) would start out as an ECL 2 instead of ECL 4. Thats a minor example (we've had far worse abuses, i just can't think of a good example at the moment). Can I play a giant in your campaign (I think a hill giant has a +2 LA, and you get something like 16 Strength), or an illithid, or a rakhashah... pretty much anything really?
SilverEyes 03-29-07, 03:33 PM	On what I actually ban though, not much. I have a clause that basically says if something gets out of hand (for the PC's or me), it will be dealt with. This seems to work pretty well. My players like to powergame, so I do too. My players are pretty good at not just making broken characters, so I don't either. It's been a fun (for all of us) and enjoyable campaign for... 4 years or so now (fairly infrequently, not playing for months, then playing every week, so it's an average of around level 12 now). Although I have killed a few PCs. Every death was deserved :evil smile: So far I've only banned; warblades, everything from Magic of Incarnum (haven't even read it; but don't want an extra 1-3 magic systems), death from massive damage, and retraining rules (PHB II). Some things have been modified, but are still in the game.