Barbarism and your code of conduct [Archive] - Wizards Community

Barbarism and your code of conduct [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sakaki22
10-06-07, 03:42 AM This is an ordeal that occured in my biweekly campaign, and I just wanted to share it with the forum. Nothing needs resolution; things were dealt with as the DM and players saw fit. I just wanted to hear how other DMs would resolve it.

The party:
Esseanna - Female Half-elf Barbarian (All other characters male.). CN
Shidate - Dwarf Paladin of Reorx (Dragonlance). LG
Aer - Exalted Hengeyokai Monk, with Vow of Poverty and Stigmata. LG
Ryogard - Gnome Rogue. CN
Boddynock - Gnome Wizard. TN
Cyris - Human Cleric of Heironeous. NG

The night before:
Esseanna, in an act of communing with her deity (Obad-hai) left the rest of the party, forsaking the usual inn visit, to sleep in the wilderness. She was keeping safe a Bag of Holding Type II, with the parties recent swag and coinage. For communing purposes, she left her armor and all of her weapons, excluding a masterword longspear and a mundane dagger, in the Bag.

In her sleep, she was robbed by a rogue from her tribe, who stole the Bag and a sash from her. The sash was relevant as it was a symbol of honor to her; a collection of pelts proving her worth to her tribe, who outcasted her until she proved honor.

She awoke, found the possessions missing, failed to find tracks of her robber, and returned to the party.

The event:
After some divinations, they were lead to a tavern. The rogue was bragging to a bar patron, with the Bag clearly visible. To keep Esseanna from doing anything foolish, Boddynock used hold person to keep her at bay. Shidate confronted the rogue, had a verbal spat with him, and took the Bag away, leaving. Boddynock released Esseanna from the spell, also taking his leave.

Esseanna approached the rogue, freed, and demanded the return of her sash. The rogue spat at her, swearing to never return it, so she can never return home. Esseanna, near rage, begins to pummel the rogue with her bare fists (Improved Unarmed Strike), unarmed and unarmored, demanding her sash with each blow. The rogue returned combat, magical armor and magical rapier in tow, but unsuccessful in successfully beating the female. She eventually uses her fists to render him to -2 hp.

At this point, Aer jumps in, activating his Stigmata to save the rogues life. Shedding his own blood, he brings the stranger rogue to standing (19hp), who swears to Esseanna that he will see to it that she never returns home. Esseanna lets go and activates her Rage, swiftly bringing the rogue back down to -8 hp. She examines his unconscious body, finds her sash, and leaves him for dead. Cyric cures the rogue to exactly 0 hp, tells the barely awake rogue that if he sees his face again, he'll let Esseanna finish the job.

Town guards finally arrive, Cyric, Ryogard, and a badly bleeding Aer remaining at the scene with an downed rogue. Ryogard bluffs the guards into thinking the rogue assaulted Aer, and the guards haul the rogue away.
====================

Obviously Esseanna, Ryogard, and Boddynock have no standard of morality they truly need to answer to. While Ryogard and Boddynock did no actual wrongdoing (except lying and framing a somewhat innocent man on the former's behalf), Esseanna proved a very unbecoming act of brutality.

Aer, while abstaining from combat, did show his true nature in giving of himself to his allies enemy, and breifly did attempt to hold the barbarian back.

Cyric, who venerates a deity of justice and honor, left his hands clean of the affair, and did little in showing mercy in the rogues direction, and even saved his life.

Shidate left the whole affair to "Tribal Justice", not asking details and not passing personal judgements, finding it out of his jurisdiction as a Paladin to mettle with, as far as he knew, a part of their savage lives.

Are there any punishments that you, the DMs of these forums, would have handled differently? Losses of Paladin abilities or Exalted status, atonements, divine disfavor, alignment shifts, local law jurisdiction, anything really. Just your opinions.
JulesCARV
10-06-07, 03:59 AM Shidate -- minorly violated his code by merely taking the bag back, and not personally ensuring that the thief was punished (although that came later). I do not regard that minor violation as sufficient for any consequences in terms of game mechanics, especially since the thief did get turned over to legitimate authority in the end. Also Shidate should probably have informed the town guard that the person in their custody had committed theft, but not assault, but again, I don't regard failure to do so as sufficient to merit consequences.

Cyric (funny name for a cleric of Heironeous, huh?) -- like Shidate, I think he ought to have corrected Ryogard's lie and told the guards that the had stolen the bag from Esseanna, not assaulted Aer. Once again, though, I don't think this is a big deal.

Everyone else seemed to do fine in light of their alignment and such.
Majick
10-06-07, 04:02 AM Shidate is the only one really who might have a strike against the name. Ensuring the Rogue was brought to fair justice rather than beaten would have made more sense for a Paladin to me
Kouk
10-06-07, 04:17 AM Seems like totally awesome RP from everyone to me.

You guys slight the Paladin, but I don't think that he could have done much else given the situation. Did the party file a stolen items report? Would the guards even give a rat's butt about adventurers?

I don't think he could have done anything differently, considering he has no real legal options (unless in that town he is the legitimate law), so that would leave as his only options giving a very stern warning or laying the smack down. He chose the more cool-headed approach, which seems very fitting for a Paladin (rather than the "Detect Evil + Smite" brand of justice that often gets thrown around).

EDIT: Clearly by stealing those items from the Barbarian and deliberately provoking her about the sash, the DM wanted some reaction... It would be petty to punish the players for behavior he hadn't anticipated.
JulesCARV
10-06-07, 04:30 AM Well, for better or for worse, the code does demand "punishing those who harm or threaten innocents." The thief stole something, and, if Esseanna hadn't intervened, it sounds like Shidate would have just taken the bag back and then left the thief alone other than taking back the party's possessions. That doesn't sound like adequately punishing someone who harms innocent -- unless the "verbal spat" was somehow sufficient punishment for the theft. Perhaps someone else like Cyric could have gotten the guards (who seemed to be in the vicinity regardless) while Shidate kept an eye on the thief, or vice versa?

Regardless, it's not a big deal, as I said, in light of the fact that the rogue will end up being punished by legitimate authority (although it seems that he may be punished on false charges of assault, rather than true charges of theft, which casts a shadow on this matter). However, it does seem that Shidate would have let the thief get away unpunished if it hadn't been for Esseanna.

Still, no biggy, in my view, and not worth causing anyone to lose any class features.

Although if the guards later find out that the assault story is false, and the thief can find a way of showing that the story that he assaulted Aer was BS, the authorities might be mad at Ryogard for lying to them. At this point, Cyric and Shidate might have a second chance to correct Ryogard's lie and tell them that the man in custody stole something, but didn't assault Aer.
Count Arioch the 28th
10-06-07, 02:14 PM I think the barbarian was a lot more merciful than most of my characters. They wouldn't have even asked him for the item back, they would have gutted the theif right then and there, in front of everybody, took the item back, then left.
spectralphoenix
10-06-07, 02:21 PM I don't think anyone acted outside the bounds of their code, but I do think they should have talked about what they were going to do when they found the rogue before they went into the tavern. I think a little more planning and communication would have made things much easier.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sakaki22 10-06-07, 03:42 AM	This is an ordeal that occured in my biweekly campaign, and I just wanted to share it with the forum. Nothing needs resolution; things were dealt with as the DM and players saw fit. I just wanted to hear how other DMs would resolve it. The party: Esseanna - Female Half-elf Barbarian (All other characters male.). CN Shidate - Dwarf Paladin of Reorx (Dragonlance). LG Aer - Exalted Hengeyokai Monk, with Vow of Poverty and Stigmata. LG Ryogard - Gnome Rogue. CN Boddynock - Gnome Wizard. TN Cyris - Human Cleric of Heironeous. NG The night before: Esseanna, in an act of communing with her deity (Obad-hai) left the rest of the party, forsaking the usual inn visit, to sleep in the wilderness. She was keeping safe a Bag of Holding Type II, with the parties recent swag and coinage. For communing purposes, she left her armor and all of her weapons, excluding a masterword longspear and a mundane dagger, in the Bag. In her sleep, she was robbed by a rogue from her tribe, who stole the Bag and a sash from her. The sash was relevant as it was a symbol of honor to her; a collection of pelts proving her worth to her tribe, who outcasted her until she proved honor. She awoke, found the possessions missing, failed to find tracks of her robber, and returned to the party. The event: After some divinations, they were lead to a tavern. The rogue was bragging to a bar patron, with the Bag clearly visible. To keep Esseanna from doing anything foolish, Boddynock used hold person to keep her at bay. Shidate confronted the rogue, had a verbal spat with him, and took the Bag away, leaving. Boddynock released Esseanna from the spell, also taking his leave. Esseanna approached the rogue, freed, and demanded the return of her sash. The rogue spat at her, swearing to never return it, so she can never return home. Esseanna, near rage, begins to pummel the rogue with her bare fists (Improved Unarmed Strike), unarmed and unarmored, demanding her sash with each blow. The rogue returned combat, magical armor and magical rapier in tow, but unsuccessful in successfully beating the female. She eventually uses her fists to render him to -2 hp. At this point, Aer jumps in, activating his Stigmata to save the rogues life. Shedding his own blood, he brings the stranger rogue to standing (19hp), who swears to Esseanna that he will see to it that she never returns home. Esseanna lets go and activates her Rage, swiftly bringing the rogue back down to -8 hp. She examines his unconscious body, finds her sash, and leaves him for dead. Cyric cures the rogue to exactly 0 hp, tells the barely awake rogue that if he sees his face again, he'll let Esseanna finish the job. Town guards finally arrive, Cyric, Ryogard, and a badly bleeding Aer remaining at the scene with an downed rogue. Ryogard bluffs the guards into thinking the rogue assaulted Aer, and the guards haul the rogue away. ==================== Obviously Esseanna, Ryogard, and Boddynock have no standard of morality they truly need to answer to. While Ryogard and Boddynock did no actual wrongdoing (except lying and framing a somewhat innocent man on the former's behalf), Esseanna proved a very unbecoming act of brutality. Aer, while abstaining from combat, did show his true nature in giving of himself to his allies enemy, and breifly did attempt to hold the barbarian back. Cyric, who venerates a deity of justice and honor, left his hands clean of the affair, and did little in showing mercy in the rogues direction, and even saved his life. Shidate left the whole affair to "Tribal Justice", not asking details and not passing personal judgements, finding it out of his jurisdiction as a Paladin to mettle with, as far as he knew, a part of their savage lives. Are there any punishments that you, the DMs of these forums, would have handled differently? Losses of Paladin abilities or Exalted status, atonements, divine disfavor, alignment shifts, local law jurisdiction, anything really. Just your opinions.
JulesCARV 10-06-07, 03:59 AM	Shidate -- minorly violated his code by merely taking the bag back, and not personally ensuring that the thief was punished (although that came later). I do not regard that minor violation as sufficient for any consequences in terms of game mechanics, especially since the thief did get turned over to legitimate authority in the end. Also Shidate should probably have informed the town guard that the person in their custody had committed theft, but not assault, but again, I don't regard failure to do so as sufficient to merit consequences. Cyric (funny name for a cleric of Heironeous, huh?) -- like Shidate, I think he ought to have corrected Ryogard's lie and told the guards that the had stolen the bag from Esseanna, not assaulted Aer. Once again, though, I don't think this is a big deal. Everyone else seemed to do fine in light of their alignment and such.
Majick 10-06-07, 04:02 AM	Shidate is the only one really who might have a strike against the name. Ensuring the Rogue was brought to fair justice rather than beaten would have made more sense for a Paladin to me
Kouk 10-06-07, 04:17 AM	Seems like totally awesome RP from everyone to me. You guys slight the Paladin, but I don't think that he could have done much else given the situation. Did the party file a stolen items report? Would the guards even give a rat's butt about adventurers? I don't think he could have done anything differently, considering he has no real legal options (unless in that town he is the legitimate law), so that would leave as his only options giving a very stern warning or laying the smack down. He chose the more cool-headed approach, which seems very fitting for a Paladin (rather than the "Detect Evil + Smite" brand of justice that often gets thrown around). EDIT: Clearly by stealing those items from the Barbarian and deliberately provoking her about the sash, the DM wanted some reaction... It would be petty to punish the players for behavior he hadn't anticipated.
JulesCARV 10-06-07, 04:30 AM	Well, for better or for worse, the code does demand "punishing those who harm or threaten innocents." The thief stole something, and, if Esseanna hadn't intervened, it sounds like Shidate would have just taken the bag back and then left the thief alone other than taking back the party's possessions. That doesn't sound like adequately punishing someone who harms innocent -- unless the "verbal spat" was somehow sufficient punishment for the theft. Perhaps someone else like Cyric could have gotten the guards (who seemed to be in the vicinity regardless) while Shidate kept an eye on the thief, or vice versa? Regardless, it's not a big deal, as I said, in light of the fact that the rogue will end up being punished by legitimate authority (although it seems that he may be punished on false charges of assault, rather than true charges of theft, which casts a shadow on this matter). However, it does seem that Shidate would have let the thief get away unpunished if it hadn't been for Esseanna. Still, no biggy, in my view, and not worth causing anyone to lose any class features. Although if the guards later find out that the assault story is false, and the thief can find a way of showing that the story that he assaulted Aer was BS, the authorities might be mad at Ryogard for lying to them. At this point, Cyric and Shidate might have a second chance to correct Ryogard's lie and tell them that the man in custody stole something, but didn't assault Aer.
Count Arioch the 28th 10-06-07, 02:14 PM	I think the barbarian was a lot more merciful than most of my characters. They wouldn't have even asked him for the item back, they would have gutted the theif right then and there, in front of everybody, took the item back, then left.
spectralphoenix 10-06-07, 02:21 PM	I don't think anyone acted outside the bounds of their code, but I do think they should have talked about what they were going to do when they found the rogue before they went into the tavern. I think a little more planning and communication would have made things much easier.