Barren Glory [Archive] - Wizards Community

Barren Glory [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Insert_Name
01-13-08, 04:56 AM I'm thinking of having one villain/ally who has basically realized quite correctly over the course of his long life that existance is meaningless. This character is pained by this revelation, to the point where he is wallowing in insanity, but the fact is that everything he believes is correct. If the overgod deems the world has grown stagnant and everyone is happy or everyone is miserable, he'll stir up conflict in order to watch their struggles, not realizing that his creations are real beings who have the same emotions as him. The villain has realized after searching through every possibility that the only way to end all conflict and suffering in the world is to erase all life.

Is there any way to present this NPC without having him seem cartoonishly evil at first glance? Or even in a way that the players can empathize with or even agree with him? This character is actually a lich, so there would obviously be that additional prejudice against him. He's already been introduced in the campaign, and the PCs have been his ally in times past before they realized he was a lich, and they don't yet know what goal he's working towards.

(I've been delaying their next encounter with him, since I'm absolutely sure that as soon as the villain says "hey, you guys want to go kill all life?" the players will go "ahh, well this guy's insane, shouldn't have expected any less from an undead".)

Thanks in advance for your help.
Kouk
01-13-08, 02:25 PM Make up some elaborate argument for him which seems believable. Actually, I'm sure there are plenty of real philosophers who make similar arguments.

They can discover his treatises on why the world sucks and must be destroyed, maybe under a pen-name though so they don't know it is him immediately. If they already like the guy and then find out the writings they found are his beliefs, they may be more torn as to how to handle it, perhaps trying to even convince him the world is good as it is...

If an NPC starts spouting world-ending stuff, it is quite likely they will attack him before he finishes, so by using written documents they can find, the players are more likely to see the whole argument.

You might also have a small cult of "followers" like depressed poor folk, women who have lost their children, people with terminal illnesses etc who automatically evoke pity from the heroic PCs. Perhaps the lich provides for them and supports them so they don't have to suffer in the final moments of the world as he works his plans, making him seem more like a "good guy".
wizarddog
01-13-08, 06:57 PM Make a big deal of what the man was before he became a Lich. Perhaps he was a Good man who believed that if he could reach immortality he could in time change the world for better. To do so he had to make sacrifices for the greater good. He began slowly turning to the dark and evil secrets to learn ways for immortality. His obsession, leaving behind the destruction of his family and life's work finally pays off. He becomes a lich and starts to find ways to save the world. Having achieved this immortality, however, he has found the opposite--that he can't change the world and he slowly become mad from the transformation. He concludes, that his only course of action is to destroy the world.

Like the previous post, a record of his thoughts can be found as he, over the centuries, which comes to this conclusion.
Sildatorak
01-13-08, 10:42 PM Is there any way to present this NPC without having him seem cartoonishly evil at first glance? Or even in a way that the players can empathize with or even agree with him?

"I believe that I have a special place in this life. I want to ease the world's pain."

If you go for the misguided visionary angle, this villain can work quite well without sinking to cartoonish, burn-the-world nonsense. If he also has projects that ease some of the suffering of the world (helping with the sick, the starving, victims of war, etc.), he will come off as a more sympathetic character.
metalmayhem80110
01-14-08, 01:58 AM Might I reccomend watching the second season of heroes (Unfortunetly there are only 11 episodes).

There is a character Adam who is doing something *Similar* to this...

I'd introduce the character as an NPC who is saving somebody. When the PC's see a lich save somebody, they're going to obviously go :confused:

Well, have him say he is seeking to end the world's suffering (As the above poster came up with). Have him try to recruit the party into helping him. Just have him say he is going to make something that will cure all diseases and illnesses and plagues. He just needs to aquire some VERY difficult items to get.

Have the people holding these one of a kind items know who the lich is and what he is up to (He tried it once before). They fire off accusations etc. This should bring up suspicions and everything, but not enough to bring up a fight.

Well, once they get all of the ingredients he begings brewing. One of the players with alchemy, or maybe he teaches one of them the trade (So he can help the lich), realizes that this won't do what he has said.

But by the time he realizes what it is, it's too late. It's been made! The lich just needs to get to an ideal spot to release his creation! He can't teleport though, it will do something to the disease/virus or whatever that will stop it from working.

They all know where the ideal spot is, inside of the water system of the largest city. There is one easy access point to this, a well in the center of town :D

(You now have a race to the well, and this can be dragged out for a lot of fun.)

A quote you have to use from Adam, just because it's pure awesome and it fits this soooo well :D
"God had the right idea with the plagues and diseases ravaging this world. There was just one problem, they didn't quite work... They would never wipe the planet clean like it needs to be."
toucanbuzz
01-14-08, 11:23 AM Any chance the party might run across this lich's old mortal house/tower and find his discarded poetry/diary/notes about his thoughts on existence? Maybe just some teasers will do, but enough to make the villain more complex!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Insert_Name 01-13-08, 04:56 AM	I'm thinking of having one villain/ally who has basically realized quite correctly over the course of his long life that existance is meaningless. This character is pained by this revelation, to the point where he is wallowing in insanity, but the fact is that everything he believes is correct. If the overgod deems the world has grown stagnant and everyone is happy or everyone is miserable, he'll stir up conflict in order to watch their struggles, not realizing that his creations are real beings who have the same emotions as him. The villain has realized after searching through every possibility that the only way to end all conflict and suffering in the world is to erase all life. Is there any way to present this NPC without having him seem cartoonishly evil at first glance? Or even in a way that the players can empathize with or even agree with him? This character is actually a lich, so there would obviously be that additional prejudice against him. He's already been introduced in the campaign, and the PCs have been his ally in times past before they realized he was a lich, and they don't yet know what goal he's working towards. (I've been delaying their next encounter with him, since I'm absolutely sure that as soon as the villain says "hey, you guys want to go kill all life?" the players will go "ahh, well this guy's insane, shouldn't have expected any less from an undead".) Thanks in advance for your help.
Kouk 01-13-08, 02:25 PM	Make up some elaborate argument for him which seems believable. Actually, I'm sure there are plenty of real philosophers who make similar arguments. They can discover his treatises on why the world sucks and must be destroyed, maybe under a pen-name though so they don't know it is him immediately. If they already like the guy and then find out the writings they found are his beliefs, they may be more torn as to how to handle it, perhaps trying to even convince him the world is good as it is... If an NPC starts spouting world-ending stuff, it is quite likely they will attack him before he finishes, so by using written documents they can find, the players are more likely to see the whole argument. You might also have a small cult of "followers" like depressed poor folk, women who have lost their children, people with terminal illnesses etc who automatically evoke pity from the heroic PCs. Perhaps the lich provides for them and supports them so they don't have to suffer in the final moments of the world as he works his plans, making him seem more like a "good guy".
wizarddog 01-13-08, 06:57 PM	Make a big deal of what the man was before he became a Lich. Perhaps he was a Good man who believed that if he could reach immortality he could in time change the world for better. To do so he had to make sacrifices for the greater good. He began slowly turning to the dark and evil secrets to learn ways for immortality. His obsession, leaving behind the destruction of his family and life's work finally pays off. He becomes a lich and starts to find ways to save the world. Having achieved this immortality, however, he has found the opposite--that he can't change the world and he slowly become mad from the transformation. He concludes, that his only course of action is to destroy the world. Like the previous post, a record of his thoughts can be found as he, over the centuries, which comes to this conclusion.
Sildatorak 01-13-08, 10:42 PM	Is there any way to present this NPC without having him seem cartoonishly evil at first glance? Or even in a way that the players can empathize with or even agree with him? "I believe that I have a special place in this life. I want to ease the world's pain." If you go for the misguided visionary angle, this villain can work quite well without sinking to cartoonish, burn-the-world nonsense. If he also has projects that ease some of the suffering of the world (helping with the sick, the starving, victims of war, etc.), he will come off as a more sympathetic character.
metalmayhem80110 01-14-08, 01:58 AM	Might I reccomend watching the second season of heroes (Unfortunetly there are only 11 episodes). There is a character Adam who is doing something Similar to this... I'd introduce the character as an NPC who is saving somebody. When the PC's see a lich save somebody, they're going to obviously go :confused: Well, have him say he is seeking to end the world's suffering (As the above poster came up with). Have him try to recruit the party into helping him. Just have him say he is going to make something that will cure all diseases and illnesses and plagues. He just needs to aquire some VERY difficult items to get. Have the people holding these one of a kind items know who the lich is and what he is up to (He tried it once before). They fire off accusations etc. This should bring up suspicions and everything, but not enough to bring up a fight. Well, once they get all of the ingredients he begings brewing. One of the players with alchemy, or maybe he teaches one of them the trade (So he can help the lich), realizes that this won't do what he has said. But by the time he realizes what it is, it's too late. It's been made! The lich just needs to get to an ideal spot to release his creation! He can't teleport though, it will do something to the disease/virus or whatever that will stop it from working. They all know where the ideal spot is, inside of the water system of the largest city. There is one easy access point to this, a well in the center of town :D (You now have a race to the well, and this can be dragged out for a lot of fun.) A quote you have to use from Adam, just because it's pure awesome and it fits this soooo well :D "God had the right idea with the plagues and diseases ravaging this world. There was just one problem, they didn't quite work... They would never wipe the planet clean like it needs to be."
toucanbuzz 01-14-08, 11:23 AM	Any chance the party might run across this lich's old mortal house/tower and find his discarded poetry/diary/notes about his thoughts on existence? Maybe just some teasers will do, but enough to make the villain more complex!