Basher in the social sphere [Archive] - Wizards Community

Basher in the social sphere [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
maurezen
11-23-06, 02:19 PM Not long ago I decided to DM some official adventure and chose "For Duty&Deity". It was quickly adapted to 3.5. The party was such : big basher (halfdragon someone field controller, looking really scary), clever mage (calm elf which didn't speak much) and socializer - bardess.
After some playing (having already ventured into Abyss), however, we all realised that
a) Adventure is going to be about brains, not brawn. Players gotta think and socialize, not hack and slash.
b) Player of basher character is completely frustrated by unusual circumstances and cannot think effectively, while the player of the bardess (which wasn't smarter than basher, btw) does nearly all the job and, by this, the bardess almost plays solo.
c) Presence of basher is vital, because it helps to avoid unnecessary fights (it just scares aggressive jerks away)
d) I cannot invent good in-game way to change character for basher's player.

What can you advice on this?
miscellany
11-23-06, 02:39 PM I wouldn't change the basher. Rather change play so the basher has something to do.

Introduce monsters and NPCs that are tough and are not inimidated by the basher's size and look, so this way the basher has necessary fights to take part in.

If these fights really threaten the bardess and the mage, all the better because then the basher is protecting them and he has something to do.

Dasvedaña!
maurezen
11-23-06, 02:53 PM A good idea, but... whatever threatens his companions is (most likely) deadly. Basher is constructed so, that monsters which are physical threat to him must quite a bit stronger than him (he is ECL 12 and can stand against, and possibly kill, a marilith), which means almost certain death for bardess and retreat for mage. :(:(:(

До свидания:)
TwiddleStootch
11-23-06, 03:23 PM shouldn't Basher be the same ECL as the other 2?
you did have him start at a lower level because of his template, right?
tsuyoshikentsu
11-23-06, 06:08 PM He could just be more powerful.

In any event, I think you should cater to the basher. Regardless of "campaign and adventure variety," if someone's not having fun due ot the adventure style it's the DM's fault.
Morrowner
11-23-06, 08:42 PM You have someone in the group who could solo a Marilith, the 3.5 Marilith, the "Oh, and I get to hit you with the kitchen sink, too!" Marilith? Please tell me what the hell sort of cheese is he pulling because I would like to pull it, too.:D
Erato
11-23-06, 09:14 PM Make Basher a hero :fight!: . An ‘unwilling celebrity’, so to speak.

Seriously, if he’s that tough, people will have heard of him (if not, throw an impressive encounter at him, with witnesses). Have people (at least some places) notice him, ask him about his adventures, offer help merely because they’re impressed by him :cheer: :bow: , or challenge him to gain fame themselves. Or have NPCs spread false rumors about him, and make it a side-quest (or a side-benefit of their main quest) to restore his good name.

Force him to socialize, even if the character sucks at it, because his fame makes him better in dealing with some people.

Of course, you shouldn’t give him too much of the spotlight ‘for free’. But giving a character a role-playing advantage can help him shine, despite mechanical weaknesses (I know the character is strong, but not in a way that matters), as long as the other players don’t feel left out.
makeshiftwings
11-24-06, 05:48 AM There are two different things that could be going on. One is that the character is anti-social and thus the player has trouble finding in-character things for him to do. The other thing that might be going on is that the player dislikes social roleplaying and just wants to play combats. Just going off the stereotypes, the fact that he's a minmaxed half-dragon that is overpowered for his level and the other two are weak, makes me think that the bard likes the roleplaying part of the game and the half-dragon likes the combat part of the game. In that case, there's not much you can do besides try to split your time to make them both happy. Have an RP scene where the bard and mage get to talk while the half-dragon yawns, and then "suddenly, you're attacked!" and let the half-dragon roll his dice while the other two sit and wait.

If on the other hand he does like RPing social situations and just can't figure out what he should be doing in character, then there are a few ways you could try to draw him into it. Have some NPC's who only appreciate strength and refuse to treat the bard as anything but a weak, pampered girl who couldn't understand them. Have some NPC's who are also "freaks" like the half-dragon and are only willing to open up to him. Also, you could remind the player that success isn't the most important thing. Sure, it would make sense that in almost all situations, everybody in the party would be quiet and only let the bard with a high Diplomacy score talk to everybody, but in real life it just doesn't work like that. Everybody likes to speak their mind and most people don't really care that they are undiplomatic. Not every social RP situation should be life or death; the player shouldn't be that concerned about his low social skill checks that he just stops talking. Social RP with interesting and flawed personalities is far more fun than with the always-perfect winning-smile diplomat.
maurezen
11-24-06, 03:48 PM Thank you!
Now the answers:

TwiddleStooch: he is the same 12 ECL.

Tsuyoshikentsu: yes it is:(

Morrowner: I will PM you his stats and marilith's, okay? If I don't do it in 2 days, remind me, please.

Erato: The problem about being someone famous is that the are now in Abyss. In Samora city of Grazzt's realm. But thank you nevertheless... at least I know where I should search.

makeshiftwings: yes he likes RPing. "Have some NPC's who only appreciate strength and refuse to treat the bard as anything but a weak, pampered girl who couldn't understand them" is a good idea, thanks! But I want to add, that checks are not really that important. Roleplay is. So he could go through difficult diplomacy with a good roleplay... if he could overcome his frustration and start thinking.
Maybe I should clarify: basher's frustration is mainly from the fact that usual schemes don't work. When on Prime Material his (usually roguish) character could do some covert operations, in Abyss this won't go. When on Prime party could quickly and silently kill the guards, here they can't. And, worst of all, he thinks that he cannot successfully lie to NPC:(

Many thanks for your replies! Goodbye.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
maurezen 11-23-06, 02:19 PM	Not long ago I decided to DM some official adventure and chose "For Duty&Deity". It was quickly adapted to 3.5. The party was such : big basher (halfdragon someone field controller, looking really scary), clever mage (calm elf which didn't speak much) and socializer - bardess. After some playing (having already ventured into Abyss), however, we all realised that a) Adventure is going to be about brains, not brawn. Players gotta think and socialize, not hack and slash. b) Player of basher character is completely frustrated by unusual circumstances and cannot think effectively, while the player of the bardess (which wasn't smarter than basher, btw) does nearly all the job and, by this, the bardess almost plays solo. c) Presence of basher is vital, because it helps to avoid unnecessary fights (it just scares aggressive jerks away) d) I cannot invent good in-game way to change character for basher's player. What can you advice on this?
miscellany 11-23-06, 02:39 PM	I wouldn't change the basher. Rather change play so the basher has something to do. Introduce monsters and NPCs that are tough and are not inimidated by the basher's size and look, so this way the basher has necessary fights to take part in. If these fights really threaten the bardess and the mage, all the better because then the basher is protecting them and he has something to do. Dasvedaña!
maurezen 11-23-06, 02:53 PM	A good idea, but... whatever threatens his companions is (most likely) deadly. Basher is constructed so, that monsters which are physical threat to him must quite a bit stronger than him (he is ECL 12 and can stand against, and possibly kill, a marilith), which means almost certain death for bardess and retreat for mage. :(:(:( До свидания:)
TwiddleStootch 11-23-06, 03:23 PM	shouldn't Basher be the same ECL as the other 2? you did have him start at a lower level because of his template, right?
tsuyoshikentsu 11-23-06, 06:08 PM	He could just be more powerful. In any event, I think you should cater to the basher. Regardless of "campaign and adventure variety," if someone's not having fun due ot the adventure style it's the DM's fault.
Morrowner 11-23-06, 08:42 PM	You have someone in the group who could solo a Marilith, the 3.5 Marilith, the "Oh, and I get to hit you with the kitchen sink, too!" Marilith? Please tell me what the hell sort of cheese is he pulling because I would like to pull it, too.:D
Erato 11-23-06, 09:14 PM	Make Basher a hero :fight!: . An ‘unwilling celebrity’, so to speak. Seriously, if he’s that tough, people will have heard of him (if not, throw an impressive encounter at him, with witnesses). Have people (at least some places) notice him, ask him about his adventures, offer help merely because they’re impressed by him :cheer: :bow: , or challenge him to gain fame themselves. Or have NPCs spread false rumors about him, and make it a side-quest (or a side-benefit of their main quest) to restore his good name. Force him to socialize, even if the character sucks at it, because his fame makes him better in dealing with some people. Of course, you shouldn’t give him too much of the spotlight ‘for free’. But giving a character a role-playing advantage can help him shine, despite mechanical weaknesses (I know the character is strong, but not in a way that matters), as long as the other players don’t feel left out.
makeshiftwings 11-24-06, 05:48 AM	There are two different things that could be going on. One is that the character is anti-social and thus the player has trouble finding in-character things for him to do. The other thing that might be going on is that the player dislikes social roleplaying and just wants to play combats. Just going off the stereotypes, the fact that he's a minmaxed half-dragon that is overpowered for his level and the other two are weak, makes me think that the bard likes the roleplaying part of the game and the half-dragon likes the combat part of the game. In that case, there's not much you can do besides try to split your time to make them both happy. Have an RP scene where the bard and mage get to talk while the half-dragon yawns, and then "suddenly, you're attacked!" and let the half-dragon roll his dice while the other two sit and wait. If on the other hand he does like RPing social situations and just can't figure out what he should be doing in character, then there are a few ways you could try to draw him into it. Have some NPC's who only appreciate strength and refuse to treat the bard as anything but a weak, pampered girl who couldn't understand them. Have some NPC's who are also "freaks" like the half-dragon and are only willing to open up to him. Also, you could remind the player that success isn't the most important thing. Sure, it would make sense that in almost all situations, everybody in the party would be quiet and only let the bard with a high Diplomacy score talk to everybody, but in real life it just doesn't work like that. Everybody likes to speak their mind and most people don't really care that they are undiplomatic. Not every social RP situation should be life or death; the player shouldn't be that concerned about his low social skill checks that he just stops talking. Social RP with interesting and flawed personalities is far more fun than with the always-perfect winning-smile diplomat.
maurezen 11-24-06, 03:48 PM	Thank you! Now the answers: TwiddleStooch: he is the same 12 ECL. Tsuyoshikentsu: yes it is:( Morrowner: I will PM you his stats and marilith's, okay? If I don't do it in 2 days, remind me, please. Erato: The problem about being someone famous is that the are now in Abyss. In Samora city of Grazzt's realm. But thank you nevertheless... at least I know where I should search. makeshiftwings: yes he likes RPing. "Have some NPC's who only appreciate strength and refuse to treat the bard as anything but a weak, pampered girl who couldn't understand them" is a good idea, thanks! But I want to add, that checks are not really that important. Roleplay is. So he could go through difficult diplomacy with a good roleplay... if he could overcome his frustration and start thinking. Maybe I should clarify: basher's frustration is mainly from the fact that usual schemes don't work. When on Prime Material his (usually roguish) character could do some covert operations, in Abyss this won't go. When on Prime party could quickly and silently kill the guards, here they can't. And, worst of all, he thinks that he cannot successfully lie to NPC:( Many thanks for your replies! Goodbye.