Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Phobos 05-12-07, 09:42 PM	I am a basic DM, nothing great or fancy, but my players enjoy and and I seem to do ok. But, I have tow issues I could use some advice one. The first, how best to scale an adventure up to my players levels? My players are level 8, a shifter ranger, warforged fighter, human dragonmarked paladin and a halfling priest. Mentioning for reference sake. I have a 5th level adventure (Eyes of the Lich Queen) we'd love to run and I'd like to scale it up for them. Advice on a system to do this easily for this and other adventures? The second issue is dealing with players that have imbalanced the game. Our warforged has, without ill intent, managed via feats and good dice rolls, to get himself beyond what most creatures can hit. An AC of about 23, DR 3. Because I make monster rolls in secret, I often just flub them and let them hit enough to make it a fight, but to be honest, less than 10% of what they face really even has a chance. Now, the rest of the party isn't an issue, in fact, he's often the one that pulls them though. Suggestions, or is this actually an OK situation? Thanks
Perseus_Stoned 05-12-07, 09:48 PM	I fear I don't have any experience with scaling adventures, so I can't help you there, but as to your second dilemma there's a golden rule to help you out. "If no one has a problem with it, don't try to fix it." If you feel he's ruining your monster fights, go ahead and try to re-work his character with him, but if you're find with it (and it sounds like everyone else is too) just let it be. (And, for any other posters in this thread, please don't leave comments like, "Well a 23 AC isn't that good for Level 8..." I've seen way too many threads absorbed with pseudo-advice like that.)
Saberus 05-12-07, 10:02 PM	<comment=side>Considering that warforged can't wear armor, and effectivly can't benefit as much as normal from Bracers of armor, 23 doesn't sound low!</comment> Scaling up encounters would usually involve using the advancement rules in the MM, but that just nets most monsters high HP and (maybe) better saves, special abilities end up appearing weaker as a result. You can also give more intelligent (humanoids) class levels, this can bring them on par with the chars in a bit more balanced way. One final method: replace some monsters w/ more powerful creatures of the same type, if a fight is against 5 wolves(CR2ish), replace one or two w/ worgs (Winter wolves if the chars can handle it). Just be mindful not to overdo things.
Horus_Sungod 05-12-07, 10:03 PM	As I like to put my AC up through the roof while my DM curses his weak monsters, I also know what brings such a tank down. Beyond the obvious touch attack, magic works well. Nothing says: AC sucks like a fireball or a gaze attack. If you make encounter with more than big, dumb, brutish monsters, it's not too hard to threaten that character. Beware, using monsters of a high CR will result in that PC's death because if the monster hits, it could be enough to kill very quickly!
TheGreenGriffon 05-13-07, 02:14 AM	1. Give monsters class levels. Give any NPC baddies more class levels. 2. increase the number of baddies in any given encounter. Theres a chart somewhere in the DMG for saying how many of a given CR challenge whatever average CL your party is. scaling adventures really isn't that hard. Usually minor tweaks do the trick.
Optimized_Commoner 05-13-07, 02:22 AM	(And, for any other posters in this thread, please don't leave comments like, "Well a 23 AC isn't that good for Level 8..." I've seen way too many threads absorbed with pseudo-advice like that.) But it's not. That's "I'm wearing full-plate with a tower shield and have a dex of 12". Which is a terrible excuse for "I'm going to cheat my dice rolls" Read this: Tactics and Tips: Hitting the High AC (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/tt/20050314a) and stop cheating.
Baernwulf_of_Nor 05-13-07, 02:26 AM	Giving the creatures better items and tactics can work well. Kobolds with 18 armor saves, healing potions, and shortswords that fight in ranks would scare many a young adventurer. It creeped me out. As for dealing with the warforged, aid another, flanking, trip attacks, but that usually takes multiple creatures. I agree with Horus that you should throw some magic at them. BoN
SturmGrenadier 05-13-07, 03:21 AM	one thing you can do is just pump up the challenge rating of monsters, have an encounter with a rust monster for example.... that would most likely be a bad thing for the warforged, and that would let the rest of the party show their mettle. you just need to see the potential of the party. a few good questions to look at when making stronger monsters are. A) can my party collectively take this monster. ( if not play it anyway but knock down some skills or exclude them entirely) B) what weakness in the party does this monster exploit. (IE. rust, heat, cold, water) C) what kind of "fear" factor does this monster carry (perhaps through a characters background said monster TERRIFIES them) use monsters and technology to your advantage and dont forget to use magic and magic items on your PCs every once in a while, that can help get around high ACs. also is he just a fighter or is he cross classing to Juggernaut. if he doesnt have construct perfection yet, you can try assassin type NPCs, yes he has light fortification but still, when you have several sneaky guys backstabing you, that too is a way to get around the AC. best of luck, and PM me if you have any questions about this topic.
Phobos 05-13-07, 12:10 PM	Thank you all for the advice. Still tough to properly scale adventures up, but I think I can try a few extra HP and maybe up their + to hit to help. As for the warforged, he plans to go Juggernaut, but has not yet. I enjoy the pre-made WotC adventures, like the one we plan to do next, but it sure would be nice of they came with an extra two page detailing the stats to scale the mobs up. :) Thanks again. BTW, a rust monster might be a really nice wrench at some point.
CryoSilver 05-13-07, 12:19 PM	I am a basic DM, nothing great or fancy, but my players enjoy and and I seem to do ok. But, I have tow issues I could use some advice one. The first, how best to scale an adventure up to my players levels? I suggest giving each intelligent monster one or two class levels, and giving the other monsters more Hit Dice. The DMG also has rules for simply having more creatures to fight and how that influences EL. The second issue is dealing with players that have imbalanced the game. Our warforged has, without ill intent, managed via feats and good dice rolls, to get himself beyond what most creatures can hit. An AC of about 23, DR 3. Because I make monster rolls in secret, I often just flub them and let them hit enough to make it a fight, but to be honest, less than 10% of what they face really even has a chance. Once you scale up the adventure, this should not be an issue. Monsters generally have more Hit Dice than their CR, so a CR 5 or 6 monster probably has 8-10 Hit Dice and a +6 to +7 attack bonus, plus Strength modifier. Assuming said monster has 16 Strength, that's a +9 to +10 to hit. Toss in a masterwork weapon and Weapon Focus and it's +11 to +12, which hits the warforged just under half the time. Spellcasting enemies can use touch attacks, which totally bypasses armor.
Man in the Funny Hat 05-13-07, 12:41 PM	The first, how best to scale an adventure up to my players levels?With a specific adventure in hand the process is a bit tedious but doable. Use the advancement rules to increase the CR of individual creatures. Use more monsters. Use similar monsters that are higher CR. Change circumstances of encounters to add challenges to the PC's. Add entirely new encounters that present greater challenge to the PC's. The second issue is dealing with players that have imbalanced the game. Our warforged has, without ill intent, managed via feats and good dice rolls, to get himself beyond what most creatures can hit. An AC of about 23, DR 3. Because I make monster rolls in secret, I often just flub them and let them hit enough to make it a fight, but to be honest, less than 10% of what they face really even has a chance. Now, the rest of the party isn't an issue, in fact, he's often the one that pulls them though. Suggestions, or is this actually an OK situation?It's an OK situation. The character is actually good at something? LET HIM BE GOOD AT IT. It is not a crime for a character to be good at something. Next, don't focus on ONE character in this way. Your goal as DM is not to ensure that you can always easily dominate PC's with whatever you throw at them. I've seen people post just this sort of problem before and usually they've made the problem even worse by throwing over-equipped hordes at the character, failing to CHANGE the basic fact of his having a high AC in doing so, and resulting only in transferring cash and magic to now over-equipped PC's spiralling the "problem" to even greater heights. Don't fight fire with fire - fight it with water. As mentioned use spells and effects that do not concern themselves with his high AC. But don't forget that there are still other PC's there too. You need to keep them ALL challenged and interested. You don't need to think that it is your job to keep them in their place. Their place is at the table having fun. Facilitate that - don't fight it. Its quite possible that as the PC levels increase this will balance out again anyway with the warforged's AC remaining where it is, but the monsters catching up with their attack bonuses. Just keep an eye on things. Don't give the warforged any easy means to increase his AC further for a few levels. If the problem continues or worsens talk to the player. Tell him your problem and ask for his cooperation in mitigating it or correcting it. Don't be in the least hesitant to discuss behind-the-scenes problems that you have as DM with the players. It isn't as if running the game has to be done behind a veil of secrecy and silence between you and the players. In fact, lack of communication between DM and players is responsible for more game meltdowns than every other factor combined.