Post/Author/DateTime	Post
stige 07-27-06, 05:40 PM	After so much work I am proud the present my creation (in hope that you'll like it) Battle Aide has been released! General Info ========== " Battle Aide" is a specially made program for D20 gamers.Battle Aide will take your battling experince to the next level.No more pencils and papers battle maps, now you have a new board. Battle Aide will provide you a practical board with a 360 degree enviorment, and actions compatible with the D20 rules. Overview ======= *Easy to use battle board *360 degree enviorment (no grid) *Map Designer *based on the D20 rules. for more information and download visit the site: Stige Productions Site (http://www.stige.co.nr) link 2: Stige Productions (http://stige.awardspace.com)
ccerose 07-27-06, 05:56 PM	I don't think you can use the Dungeons & Dragons name in an unlicensed product. I still check it out when I get a chance.
Dowjin 07-27-06, 06:00 PM	I'm not sure about the legals, but as long as you keep it FREE, and anyone can distribute it to each other likewise free, I /think/ thats the open game liscence and whatnot. But I'm not the person to talk to about that. What I /would/ like to see, is a full-screen option. :)
stige 07-27-06, 06:01 PM	as far as i understood the rules are opensource. Anyway, I can't see why they should worry. The program itself will not suffice to play D&D so I think it will actually support Wizards, plus I dont charge over it money.
ccerose 07-27-06, 06:04 PM	I recommend doing some spell checking. And you might want to include some documentation, either on your forums or as an attached readme file.
wrecan 07-27-06, 07:04 PM	I don't know how to name or otherwise customize characters (ie, add in their Init bonuses) I got an error and crash when I tried a charge. It doesn't seem to sort them in initiative order. Can't insert characters of alternate sizes. Can't customize for characters with reach weapons When using ranged attacks, it doesn't let me know if the person has cover thanks to intervening people. Otherwise, it looks like a promising interface. Keep it up!
Vanigo 07-27-06, 07:42 PM	as far as i understood the rules are opensource.That's mostly correct, but there's enough "incorrect" and "irrelevant" mixed in there that you might want to change the name. The rules are open-source(ish), but the name is not. You can call your stuff "d20" - that's the generic name for the rules - but the name "Dungeons and Dragons" is still trademarked. (It's worth noting that there are a few things in the rulebooks that are not open game content, like illithids and the experience chart.) Of course, I doubt you'd actually get in trouble over it. As you've said, it's not hurting WotC at all. I think it's technically trademark infringement, and they could make some arguments that there's danger of confusing consumers or some such mumbo-jumbo, but I can't see why they'd bother.
stige 07-27-06, 08:08 PM	for all the confused ones I added a guide in the forums. I don't know how to name or otherwise customize characters (ie, add in their Init bonuses) I got an error and crash when I tried a charge. It doesn't seem to sort them in initiative order. Can't insert characters of alternate sizes. Can't customize for characters with reach weapons When using ranged attacks, it doesn't let me know if the person has cover thanks to intervening people. Otherwise, it looks like a promising interface. Keep it up! Characters of alternate sizes and reach weapons are indeed some of the features I already planned to insert in the future. The range attacks should notify of cover when there is one red line. The initiative is also including rolling d20 dice, What you filled was merely the bonus. A feature that I probebly intend to change to the way you though it was. The crash is intresting I will look onto it What I /would/ like to see, is a full-screen option. unfortunatly I think this option will come much later since It's not as essential as other features that are still missing. Hope you don't mind it too much. That's mostly correct, but there's enough "incorrect" and "irrelevant" mixed in there that you might want to change the name. The rules are open-source(ish), but the name is not. You can call your stuff "d20" - that's the generic name for the rules - but the name "Dungeons and Dragons" is still trademarked. (It's worth noting that there are a few things in the rulebooks that are not open game content, like illithids and the experience chart.) Of course, I doubt you'd actually get in trouble over it. As you've said, it's not hurting WotC at all. I think it's technically trademark infringement, and they could make some arguments that there's danger of confusing consumers or some such mumbo-jumbo, but I can't see why they'd bother. Yeah i guess you are right. Well if it will disturb them I will surely wont make any problems and change it right away.
revnk 07-27-06, 10:00 PM	As Vanigo noted, "Dungeons And Dragons" is copyrighted, but the d20 rules have been released under the "Open Gaming License" so that 3rd parties can make use of the system. Certain things--e.g. mind flayers and beholders--are not covered by the OGL. Most of what is covered, in fact, includes things that may not be copyrightable at this point because of the way D&D developed back in the 1970s and early 1980s (a lot of things adapted from public domain, a lot of contributions from freelancers whose intellectual property rights are now horribly tangled, etc.). Actual harm to a copyright holder may be an issue for damages, but it's not an issue for the actual violation or for a nasty "cease and desist" letter. And even if your product has a low enough profile to slip under the radar, you presumably want it to be popular at some point. You'd probably save yourself a lot of future headaches if you simply called it "Battle Aide"* and changed the references to "Dungeons And Dragons" into references to the "3.5 SRD" (the SRD is the "System Reference Document," the OGL-covered D&D rules). (E.g., replace "'Dungeons And Draongs [sic] Battle Aide' is a specially made program for D&D (dungeons and dragons [sic]) gamers. DNDBA will be your new battle board. No more pencils and papers. DNDBA will provide you a practical board with a 360 degree enviorment." with "Battle Aide' is a specially made program for SRD 3.5 gamers. 'Battle Aide' will be your new battle board. No more pencils and papers. 'Battle Aid' will provide you a practical board with a 360 degree enviorment.") You might also review the OGL and decide whether you need to include a link to the OGL boilerplate page (a legal document that has to be included in any SRD-based material). That document can be accessed here: http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/OGLv1.0a.rtf. More information about the OGL can be found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/welcome. Hope that helps. Good luck with your new venture! *This is assuming that the name "Battle Aide" is not already copyrighted by someone else. That's something else you might want to check. Good luck.
Vanigo 07-28-06, 12:30 AM	Actually, it's much less cumbersome and more understandable to refer to it as the d20 system. d20 is to SRD as Dungeons and Dragons is to Player's Handbook. (And no one calls himself a Player's Handbook player.)
Journeyman Samwise 07-28-06, 01:34 AM	This looks really cool! Thanks!
stige 07-28-06, 12:23 PM	As Vanigo noted, "Dungeons And Dragons" is copyrighted, but the d20 rules have been released under the "Open Gaming License" so that 3rd parties can make use of the system. Certain things--e.g. mind flayers and beholders--are not covered by the OGL. Most of what is covered, in fact, includes things that may not be copyrightable at this point because of the way D&D developed back in the 1970s and early 1980s (a lot of things adapted from public domain, a lot of contributions from freelancers whose intellectual property rights are now horribly tangled, etc.). Actual harm to a copyright holder may be an issue for damages, but it's not an issue for the actual violation or for a nasty "cease and desist" letter. And even if your product has a low enough profile to slip under the radar, you presumably want it to be popular at some point. You'd probably save yourself a lot of future headaches if you simply called it "Battle Aide"* and changed the references to "Dungeons And Dragons" into references to the "3.5 SRD" (the SRD is the "System Reference Document," the OGL-covered D&D rules). (E.g., replace "'Dungeons And Draongs [sic] Battle Aide' is a specially made program for D&D (dungeons and dragons [sic]) gamers. DNDBA will be your new battle board. No more pencils and papers. DNDBA will provide you a practical board with a 360 degree enviorment." with "Battle Aide' is a specially made program for SRD 3.5 gamers. 'Battle Aide' will be your new battle board. No more pencils and papers. 'Battle Aid' will provide you a practical board with a 360 degree enviorment.") You might also review the OGL and decide whether you need to include a link to the OGL boilerplate page (a legal document that has to be included in any SRD-based material). That document can be accessed here: http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/OGLv1.0a.rtf. More information about the OGL can be found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/welcome. Hope that helps. Good luck with your new venture! *This is assuming that the name "Battle Aide" is not already copyrighted by someone else. That's something else you might want to check. Good luck. Oh well I guess I'll change it with the next update. On the subject, I can understand why my program can't be named with the D&D trademark but can't I even mention it in the description like so :" Battle Aide" is a program made for Dungeon and Dragons players" or something like this? Isn't restriction like that abit too extreme?
Arganis 07-28-06, 12:43 PM	can't I even mention it in the description like so :" Battle Aide" is a program made for Dungeon and Dragons players" or something like this? Use of Product Identity: You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility, except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of each element of that Product Identity. You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark. The use of any Product Identity in Open Game Content does not constitute a challenge to the ownership of that Product Identity. The owner of any Product Identity used in Open Game Content shall retain all rights, title and interest in and to that Product Identity. Isn't restriction like that abit too extreme? Couldn't say really. Depends on who you ask! I'm looking forward to downloading this and giving it a try. I'll post my thoughts once I have.
utilitarian 07-28-06, 12:47 PM	Aye, looks nifty, I'll try it out when I get home. Just change it to the d20 Battle Aide so you don't get sued or something -_^
revnk 07-28-06, 03:06 PM	Actually, it's much less cumbersome and more understandable to refer to it as the d20 system. d20 is to SRD as Dungeons and Dragons is to Player's Handbook. (And no one calls himself a Player's Handbook player.) True, but you'll want to double-check the OGL and the Wizards' page regarding the use of the "d20" trademark: apparently an OGL product has to meet certain restrictions in order to include the logo and possibly the term. It's a pain in the ass, and it probably is unnecessarily cumbersome, but it would suck to get nasty letters from Hasbro lawyers. Having things set up "right" early on means not having to change things later when it might be harder to work in a name change or website redesign. (It's less of a pain now then it might be later.) Good luck.
tsuyoshikentsu 07-28-06, 05:29 PM	Okay, there are a number of flaws here -- but don't worry ,that's normal for womehting this early. :) I like the concept of this program, though, and what little there is is quite interesting. Some things to think about: The installer creates two desktop icons. While the interface may seem user-friendly to you, I can't make heads or tails of it. This isn't an attack on you; it's just that you've probably memorized how to do things, and I haven't. Tooltips would work wonders. The "Waste Action" button appears to waste your action whather you hit Cancel or Okay. As noted above, there are a few spelling errors. Still, for what's essentially a very early alpha, it looks great! I'd love to test this a little more through several versions... I think it has real potential.
Gottwick 07-28-06, 05:35 PM	Legally, there's a world of difference between "Dungeons & Dragons Battle Aide" and "Battle Aide, usable with Dungeons & Dragons". For example, I made a bunker for sale and called it a "Warhammer 40k Bunker". GW's lawyer corrected me, and I changed it to "Bunker, usable with Warhammer 40k, Warmachine, Void, etc.". Imagine a (TM) symbol and put their product on the right of that.
stige 07-28-06, 06:24 PM	Okay, there are a number of flaws here -- but don't worry ,that's normal for womehting this early. :) I like the concept of this program, though, and what little there is is quite interesting. Some things to think about: The installer creates two desktop icons. While the interface may seem user-friendly to you, I can't make heads or tails of it. This isn't an attack on you; it's just that you've probably memorized how to do things, and I haven't. Tooltips would work wonders. The "Waste Action" button appears to waste your action whather you hit Cancel or Okay. As noted above, there are a few spelling errors. Still, for what's essentially a very early alpha, it looks great! I'd love to test this a little more through several versions... I think it has real potential. Like I mentioned earlier there is a manual in the forums that might help you. But tooltips will probebly be added soon, maybe in the next version. It ain't something hard to add as far as I remember. The waste action sure has a bug. I'm actually suprised that after 100 aprox downloads you are the first to notice it and notify it. Anyway I already noticed it and fixed it, and you will be able to download it tommorrow. oh and BTW nothing is considered an attack , I need the good and... the bad feedbacks to make it better.
Atirakis 07-28-06, 06:33 PM	Website wont open but am I better off just waiting till the next version? Also is this a map tool as well? (i.e. can you edit the terrain to match the battle field?) On a related topic I am waiting for the day that someone makes the software that allows you to create maps like you find in the pages of the players handbook that the D&D Minis are standing on and basically play D&D Minis except I dont really like the Minis rules concerning damage and Activations so keep it 3.5 rules.
stige 07-28-06, 07:19 PM	Website wont open but am I better off just waiting till the next version? Also is this a map tool as well? (i.e. can you edit the terrain to match the battle field?) On a related topic I am waiting for the day that someone makes the software that allows you to create maps like you find in the pages of the players handbook that the D&D Minis are standing on and basically play D&D Minis except I dont really like the Minis rules concerning damage and Activations so keep it 3.5 rules. The program itself wont provide you a good map tool, In addition the map editor is currently really underdeveloped. In the future I plan to make obstacles. Actual terrain changes are not something I think of doing in the near future. about the link, I can see there is a problem currently with the redirect link so you can try to get to the site through the direct link: stige productions (http://stige.awardspace.com)
Dowjin 07-28-06, 09:13 PM	stige - I have a sort-of simple idea on mapping. Make a genric set of textures accompanied by colors, which can be selected between at the top of the Battle Aide menu. Selecting one changes that white background color, into a colored background texture. (Snow, dirt, a meshing dungeon-brick floor... Cover simple and basic stuff) Then, put in drop-and-pin terrain blocks. Open a menu next to the texture picker, for instance, and it shows you walls, doors, rooms, boulders, and other terrain blocks you can post onto the battle map. You can edit the terrain while the menu is open, and it locks the terrain features into place when its closed.
stige 07-29-06, 04:14 AM	stige - I have a sort-of simple idea on mapping. Make a genric set of textures accompanied by colors, which can be selected between at the top of the Battle Aide menu. Selecting one changes that white background color, into a colored background texture. (Snow, dirt, a meshing dungeon-brick floor... Cover simple and basic stuff) Then, put in drop-and-pin terrain blocks. Open a menu next to the texture picker, for instance, and it shows you walls, doors, rooms, boulders, and other terrain blocks you can post onto the battle map. You can edit the terrain while the menu is open, and it locks the terrain features into place when its closed. as far as the textures goes it's pretty easy. But when you talk about doors and walls and the like it gets really complicated since it's not just handeling the map editor it's also making sure you can't move beyond it, certine spells cannot go around corners and stuff like that. And these things are not as easy to program...it's pain in the ass math problems. Anyway the obstacles is a must and they will be added sooner or later. It will take time though, just to program it.
wrecan 07-29-06, 08:50 AM	Not to put too much pressure on you, but the one feature that would make me put my battle map away and use this is if you could somehow get it to accomodate three-dimensional battles (ie, underwater and aerial). I'd pay good money for a battle map program that could help me coordinate that!
stige 07-29-06, 10:25 AM	Not to put too much pressure on you, but the one feature that would make me put my battle map away and use this is if you could somehow get it to accomodate three-dimensional battles (ie, underwater and aerial). I'd pay good money for a battle map program that could help me coordinate that! Although the map itself is not going to be three-dimensional anytime soon or ever, it is possible for me to make the option to fly higher or Swim down, I can also make movement in any angle you choose. to put it short, graphically I wont make it 3D techniqually I can. Money will defentily speed things up. like I mentioned without any donors I wont keep this project running for too long, since its a pretty damn huge project consuming tons of time. and because of that donors get first priority when it comes to making new features.
stige 07-29-06, 12:07 PM	Say, what if I call it "Dragons and Dungeons Battle Aide" is it still illegal? (if you havent noticed the dragons and the dungeons were switched in place)
revnk 07-29-06, 01:00 PM	Say, what if I call it "Dragons and Dungeons Battle Aide" is it still illegal? (if you havent noticed the dragons and the dungeons were switched in place) I don't think that would fool anyone. You'd still have the same legal issue.
stige 07-29-06, 01:06 PM	I don't think that would fool anyone. You'd still have the same legal issue. It's not about fooling anyone. The question is if wizards own the name "Dragons and Dungeons" too.
revnk 07-29-06, 02:09 PM	It's not about fooling anyone. The question is if wizards own the name "Dragons and Dungeons" too. Wizards doesn't have to own the name if a competing name would infringe by causing substantial market confusion or otherwise dilute their trademark. I think any judge seeing a product called "Dragons And Dungeons _______" would agree the trademark was being infringed much the same way a soft drink company might infringe the Coca-Cola trademark if they started producing a soda called "Cola Coca." And, as a practical matter, even in the unlikely event that Hasbro didn't prevail, their lawyers could still make you miserable in the meantime. I don't know which international trademark agreements Israel is signatory to, or how Israeli courts handle intellectual property suits, or whether Hasbro (Wizards' parent company) would even bother to do more than send mean letters--but why take the risk of finding out when a few keystrokes can make you uncontrovertably legal? It's almost always better to avoid legal hassles, and the best time to avoid them is from the start. Suppose that your product does well, gains a following, and has commercial potential: do you want to have to change the name at that point, sowing confusion among your potential customers, because you finally got big enough for the trademark holder to notice you and come after you? On that note, I'd also point out that making your product an "OGL" or "d20" product might broaden your customer base: you might be able to get folks playing other OGL games (Blackmoor, Iron Heroes, Star Wars, etc.) to support (or purchase) your efforts. After all, D&D is not the only d20 game out there anymore.... Hope that helps.
stige 07-29-06, 02:59 PM	Wizards doesn't have to own the name if a competing name would infringe by causing substantial market confusion or otherwise dilute their trademark. I think any judge seeing a product called "Dragons And Dungeons _______" would agree the trademark was being infringed much the same way a soft drink company might infringe the Coca-Cola trademark if they started producing a soda called "Cola Coca." And, as a practical matter, even in the unlikely event that Hasbro didn't prevail, their lawyers could still make you miserable in the meantime. I don't know which international trademark agreements Israel is signatory to, or how Israeli courts handle intellectual property suits, or whether Hasbro (Wizards' parent company) would even bother to do more than send mean letters--but why take the risk of finding out when a few keystrokes can make you uncontrovertably legal? It's almost always better to avoid legal hassles, and the best time to avoid them is from the start. Suppose that your product does well, gains a following, and has commercial potential: do you want to have to change the name at that point, sowing confusion among your potential customers, because you finally got big enough for the trademark holder to notice you and come after you? On that note, I'd also point out that making your product an "OGL" or "d20" product might broaden your customer base: you might be able to get folks playing other OGL games (Blackmoor, Iron Heroes, Star Wars, etc.) to support (or purchase) your efforts. After all, D&D is not the only d20 game out there anymore.... Hope that helps. Oh geez this business talk is taking all the fun away. Anyway thanks for all the info. gonna change it soon...gotta fill some space.
revnk 07-29-06, 03:28 PM	Oh geez this business talk is taking all the fun away. Anyway thanks for all the info. gonna change it soon...gotta fill some space. Sorry, yeah it kinda sucks to have to deal with this kind of thing. :)
stige 07-29-06, 07:02 PM	I released a new version. Not much have changed but I'm just making sure you guys will have a bug free program before i'm going abroad.
AtmaWeapon 07-29-06, 08:18 PM	Oh geez this business talk is taking all the fun away. Anyway thanks for all the info. gonna change it soon...gotta fill some space. Let's put it this way - It's better for someone to point it out for you now then 40,000 lines of code later on, which happened to me. Let's just say because of that, it never made it past beta.
stige 07-30-06, 02:54 AM	Let's put it this way - It's better for someone to point it out for you now then 40,000 lines of code later on, which happened to me. Let's just say because of that, it never made it past beta. Ouch. was it with wizards? or some other company?