Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Corrino 01-21-06, 04:15 PM	Does everyone think it is at least aceptable to play without these sort of things? In the group I play with, we tend to use random objects on the table if we need a physical, visual aid for positions. The DM tells us distances. I'm creating a world and slowly learning all of the DM rules and such, and building a book collection. Should I plan on using minis and such or will I be fine without it?
Borris 01-21-06, 04:54 PM	It sure is acceptable to use random objects instead of miniatures. In fact, in my first games, I used things like chess pieces, coins, dice, etc. On the other hand, miniatures make it much clearer what token represents what, make it easier for everyone to visualize the battle scene, and overall makes for a more enjoyable game. They're very nice, but not necessary. The battle grid, however, is a must. The whole point of the miniature (even if they're just beer caps) is to show the position of each creature on the battle grid. Without one, it gets really complicated to check such simple things as move, range, threatened areas, spell area of effects, etc. You'll save yourself a lot of trouble by using a map or battle grid. Vinyl maps can be bought for 10-15$, or you could have the map at the back of the DMG coated with plastic for ever less.
jaspercrey 01-21-06, 04:57 PM	You don't need minis . . . At least not the official D&D minis that cost big bucks . . . And while you can play the game without a grid, it's a lot easier with one . . . Here's how we do it http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/dungeonsunlimited/pics.html My minis are nothing but wooden crafter spools - very cheap and versatile. Follow the Dungeons Unlimited link in my sig to see our collection of free maps.
pres_man 01-21-06, 05:16 PM	Why is it whenever I read a discussion like this I always think of ... TOMMY: What kind of a signal? JASON: Any kind of signal. TOMMY: Okay, I’ll do my hands like this ... And caw, caw, caw. JASON: What are you, an infant? Look. We have these. (shows the VOX) TOMMY (chastened): That – Sorry –
PenderGrass 01-21-06, 05:42 PM	The battle grid, however, is a must. The whole point of the miniature (even if they're just beer caps) is to show the position of each creature on the battle grid. Without one, it gets really complicated to check such simple things as move, range, threatened areas, spell area of effects, etc. You'll save yourself a lot of trouble by using a map or battle grid. Our group does fine - in fact, excellently, IMHO - without the grid. We use small tape measures, pointer lasers and no grid (although we do use battlemats sometimes for quick-drawing terrain - but mostly we use just a table top, or the Dwarven Forge 3D stuff as well as other terrain stuff). Most of the time a player (or myself) can just pick up a miniature and say - "okay, I move to here" without the hassle of counting or being in an exact square. All of our figures have circular bases as well - and all threat "spaces" are measured in a circle around the figurine. What is cool, is that a 20 foot diameter actually looks like a circle and not some cheap, 1970s Artari blocky and pixelated version of a circle! :dragon: ****
StormCrow42 01-21-06, 10:02 PM	Almost everyone here agrees that it isn't important to have the exact miniatures needed, or miniatures at all as long as you're using some alternate form of counter (coins, dice, marbles, monopoly pieces, etc). A large percentage of us believe that some form of battle diagram (be it map or positions drawn on graph paper) is important for adjucating anything much more complicated than a 1 on 1 combat in an empty field. At the very least, you need to warn your characters before character creation if you're going to run "freeform" combat using just descriptions. Were I getting ready to play in such a campaign, I'd certainly avoid creating certain character types that rely at least partially on precise combat movement and measurement, including characters with reach weapons and characters that rely on flanking, as well as toneing back any spellcaster's reliance on AoE spells.
Corrino 01-21-06, 11:07 PM	That is precisely the problem I am having with my sorceror character now; I can't use AoE's because it's not so defined. The DM keeps personal track of whereabouts of people, and tells us distances, so we have a good idea. But it isn't as easy that way, I guess.
jagraham 01-21-06, 11:46 PM	You can skip the grid, but it make life a lot easier, especially for ranges and tactics. I use a Chessex Megamat. It covers the whole table with 1" squares, you can write on it with wet erase pens, and it cushions dice rolls so they are less noisy and stay on the table. It costs about $30, which is about what any D&D book costs. D&D minis come 8 to a pack, so they run about $1.50 each, a whole lot cheaper than metal ones, which come unpainted. If you don't have a lot of cash, beyond the core books, I'd invest in a map and mini's next, since they have a lot of play value.
celtredleg 01-22-06, 01:06 AM	A grid is not needed, but a battle area of some kind is very useful. We dont use the grid, just a foamcore board with clear counter covering on it. I mark in any features with dry-erase markers. Yes you are going to get hosed on AOO as long as there is not some form of representation used. And you may well get more badguys in your FB with it as well. As for the minis costing big bucks, compare them to unpainted metal ones, and you will quickly see they are the best thing on the market.
KDSN 01-22-06, 03:55 AM	I remember GenCon 03, that when I first started using a battlemat. I was talking to a very wise DM about this very subject. Here is what she said. "While the DM can keep records to himself on paper of where people are on the battle field, you need a battlemat. This way, as players, strategy can be incorporated, because a DM will make mistakes and when they do they will always make them in their favor." When I started I started with a battlemat, but i know people who use tape measures. Thats how I learned a Bic mechanical pencil is 30ft of movement on a 1inch grid. While mostly players use mini because they are pretty, and a battlemat because it makes ranges and areas cleaner. You can do it however you like just as long as there is a representation of the area.