Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Golden Zealot 04-13-06, 08:13 AM	there have always been bandits robbing travellers on the mountain path between Essellenar, a large city which gets most of it's wealth through trade with neighbouring cities and kingdoms, Ironguard, a fortress town in a mountain valley the name of which i later realised was a rip off of Isinguard (however it's spelled) but i dont actually care, and a fishing village on the coast which i dont have a name for yet. But recently the bandits have been united under a strong leader who has set his sights above mere highway robbery - he had the bandits kidnap the daughter of a rich merchant leaving a demand for a crippling ransom. The players (a wizard, a rogue, a ranger, and a monk, all level 2) will need to find the bandit base and basically kill all the bandits. They will get a reward from the merchant as well as an extra reward from the city for every bandit they bring back alive instead of killing. Well that's the background, my actual question is when they face the bandit boss what tactics would he use? rogues aren't very good at melee fighting on their own, so im thinking should he have weaker bandits who fight with him, or should he multi calss as a fighter, or what? I want to get the most out of this villain but hes not in a good position for a rogue. He will also have a magic item, which helped him take control of the bandits. maybe an invisibility item or something. nothing too fancy as he's only about level 3. what do you think?
Valeur 04-13-06, 08:21 AM	First and foremost: Traps. Make the little sucker have a high Craft: Trap score. Then, design some poison traps to weaken down the players. Then, battered, bruised, and now poisioned, the players come into the open arms of your rogue. Have a few bandits as 'bodyguards' and make them come out behind the PC's. The rogue now gets a neat flanking bonus, and sneak attack all the time. Have more traps inside the room, that will punish the players for moving out of the Rogue's vicinity. This'll be hard, I'd think.
Maerdash 04-13-06, 08:22 AM	He could have some lessers keeping the partyu off of him while he peppers them with ranged attacks, hit and run tactics using stealth can be very effective also (Sometimes to effective). The best way may be for him to hit them in a trap filled room and use the traps to his advantage.
Zombie Carl 04-13-06, 11:43 AM	I wouldn't make a bandit chief a rogue, personally. I'd make him a fighter, or, even better, a swashbuckler.
Golden Zealot 04-13-06, 04:41 PM	I wouldn't make a bandit chief a rogue, personally. I'd make him a fighter, or, even better, a swashbuckler. a rogue fits his background though, he was just another theif with big ambitions and a few loyal followers who united the bandit's under him. I'm considering multi-classing him as a fighter, but i want to get as much out of his rogue levels as possible but i know rogues arent much good alone in combat
Pagan_Rogue 04-13-06, 06:14 PM	I would agree, traps would be awesome. Also, sneak attacks are a rogue's best friend, and can be very effective in a fight -- especially the ranged SA. We had a party that suffered major damage from an invisible little rogue who kept jumping in and out of the shadows and taking swipes at us. If he had a couple of lackeys around, you could utilize flanking. He could be armed with a bag of tricks, including all kinds of messy stuff like tanglefoot bags, ice flow oil, and other sticky, slippery substances. My guess is that he'll eventually go down, but he can cause a whole lot of pain and turmoil as he does. long live Rogues!! :D
Arganis 04-13-06, 06:28 PM	Well, if you want to be outright brutal, allow me to follow up with Valeur's suggestion: First and foremost: Traps. Make the little sucker have a high Craft: Trap score. Then, design some poison traps to weaken down the players. Then, battered, bruised, and now poisioned, the players come into the open arms of your rogue. Have a few bandits as 'bodyguards' and make them come out behind the PC's. The rogue now gets a neat flanking bonus, and sneak attack all the time. Have more traps inside the room, that will punish the players for moving out of the Rogue's vicinity. This'll be hard, I'd think. Throw traps and weaker minions at the PCs leading up to the final fight, then... Final Fight (CR 6) Leader: Rog3/Brb1 wielding a greatsword. (That's a 4d6 attack when he flanks) Minions: 4 War1 (or humanoid equivalent w/ CR 1/2). These guys will help the leader flank. Weaker Final Fight (CR 5) Leader: Rog2/Brb1 (down to 3d6 on the weapon, less HP, lower BAB, no ability score increase) Minions: 4 War1 (or humanoid equivalent w/ CR 1/2) Tanglefoot bags are a must. If you find this fight a little too high-CR still, perhaps the bandits want to capture and sell the PCs as slaves, not kill them. That would be an ECL -1, down to 4 on the low end.
StevenO 04-13-06, 07:45 PM	A lone rogue against a party of PC will need to rely on traps and hit-n-run tactics. Note that these tactics aren't good for a fair stand-up fight so this will have to come before the conclusion. One very important tactic is the escape route/plan since no boss will ever consider death preferable to easy profit and will not die to keep his prisoner.
Cifer 04-16-06, 03:13 PM	You might want to make several encounters of this guy - make the players run a trapped gauntlet (maybe an abandoned mine or drow outpost), with the rogue appearing and disappearing through secret doorways which are closed by him after passing through them. Let him use some potions when he is hidden.
FriendoftheDork 04-16-06, 04:17 PM	I wouldn't make this a fighting scenario at all. The party has one great advantage - stealth. Rangers, Monks and rogues should be able to sneak in, and the wizard might have some magic to disguise himself. If not he can be backup, casting spells to confuse the bandits if the heroes are detected, allowing the others to escape. The real challenge would be to free the daughter from the bandits without them killing her. The girl could be kept near their leader's tent, either bound or being guarded by one or two bandits (war 1). The camp itself should have some guards set out the perimeter unless their leader is a fool. As for the leader, I see a few possible archetypes: The brute: A fighter or ranger, possibly a barbarian. He leads both because he's the best warrior of them all, unequalled in single combat, and because of his leadership abilities (charisma and/or int/wis.) This one leads from the front and his heedless charge makes him feared. The Sneak: A Rogue or Ranger. This guy has skills. He can sneak better than anyone, steal anything, and might know alot about woodcraft as well. Nothing goes by him. People who speak out at him tends to end up dead, and when he looks at you his eyes seem to bore right through you (intimidate). He might even have a gorilla with him, some loyal and stupid brute that crushes his enemies easily and keeps his back safe. The Mystic: Wizard/Sorc, Cleric or Adept. The leader is not only successful because he's got a fast sword or light step, there are plenty of those. No this one has mystical power, magic or the blessings of a dark god to protect himself and bring destruction to his enemies. Now as for tactics: It varies. The Brute might have 1 or two guards stationed outside his tent, and rely on them to wake him if attacked. He doesen't need much preparion and launches himself head on into melee. The Sneak his another matter. He might not trust his guards, and will have at least two of them outside, pluss some sort of trap, animal or henchman inside. If attacked he will withdraw and consider the opposition before joining any fight, and when he does he will attack from suprise. If things go against him, he will withdraw, disappear and seek help or attack from a stronger position. The Mystic will of course have protective spells, perhaps Alarm or some such. He is also more likely to have magic items and knowing what they do. Wizards will use getaway spells first so to protect himself before attacking with spellcasting. Clerics might do the same if of sneaky god (invisibility from Trickery domain), or just buff himself and his allies before attacking But as I said at first this should not be a fighting scenario in the first place, as the PCs are rather low level and the BBEG should be of 3-10th level. Fighting should only happen if the PCs screw up (very likely) and then their prime concerns should be to get away with the girl not kill bandits.
Aldarionn 04-16-06, 04:31 PM	Give him a Sudden Stunning weapon. It's only 2,000 gold to apply to a weapon, and it lets you make a stunning attack as a swift action a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier (the nice thing is, you can decide to use the stun AFTER you have hit, so you don't waste it by missing with the attack). It stuns for 1d4+1 rounds, and the DC is 10 + 1/2 level + Charisma Modifier, so a 4th level rogue with a Charisma of 16 or so would have a DC of 15 on his stun and be able to use it 3 times per day. Decent to use against a lower level party. This way he can stun people to get sneak attack damage against them even when they are not flanked. You could also give him an amulet of health to ensure more HP and more surviveability, and minions are never a bad idea in a BBEG fight, perhaps a few 1st level rogues that could benefit from their leader's ability to stun PC's. It should be a tough fight, but a memorable one. The leader could have a bit more gear for his level than is the norm, seeing as he leads a ring of thievs. He should be somewhat wealthy after all. Poison was mentioned as a good way to slow down PC's. Combine it with a bag of Caltrops and your PC's will be weaker and moving at half speed. Anyway, hope that helps. Aldarionn
FriendoftheDork 04-16-06, 04:34 PM	Give him a Sudden Stunning weapon. It's only 2,000 gold to apply to a weapon, and it lets you make a stunning attack as a swift action a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier (the nice thing is, you can decide to use the stun AFTER you have hit, so you don't waste it by missing with the attack). It stuns for 1d4+1 rounds, and the DC is 10 + 1/2 level + Charisma Modifier, so a 4th level rogue with a Charisma of 16 or so would have a DC of 15 on his stun and be able to use it 3 times per day. Decent to use against a lower level party. This way he can stun people to get sneak attack damage against them even when they are not flanked. You could also give him an amulet of health to ensure more HP and more surviveability, and minions are never a bad idea in a BBEG fight, perhaps a few 1st level rogues that could benefit from their leader's ability to stun PC's. It should be a tough fight, but a memorable one. The leader could have a bit more gear for his level than is the norm, seeing as he leads a ring of thievs. He should be somewhat wealthy after all. Poison was mentioned as a good way to slow down PC's. Combine it with a bag of Caltrops and your PC's will be weaker and moving at half speed. Anyway, hope that helps. Aldarionn Sudden stunning? Ouch that sounds like a horribly underpriced weapon. Where did you find it? Or did you make it yourself? In any case, such a weapon should not be priced less than 8000 gp. Stun for 1d4+ rounds is incredibly powerful and any melee combatant would want one.
Landman 04-17-06, 04:32 PM	battle tactics of a lone rogue Three words. Coup de grace. Hey, everybody sleeps (or meditates) sooner or later.
Blazinghand 04-17-06, 08:42 PM	I always find it's easiest to play out NPCs by putting yourself in their shoes. Imagine you are a bandit leader who recently rose to power and kidnapped a merchant's daughter. Things are looking good, but then... Worst-Case Scenario *Wham*, you hear a thud, and the guard outside your tent thuds to the ground. The tent flap opens, and you see not one, not two, but four fully-armed adventurers. My first reaction: Run. Run like the wind. If you can, grab the daughter as a hostage. Bad Scenario *Wham*, you hear the sounds of battle coming from your sentries and four fully-armed adventurers, who are handling them with ease.. My first reaction: Wake up the three War1s in area B, and get the two War1s from area C. Secure the daughter and again, run like the wind. Good Scenario *Wham*, you hear your sentry cleverly conk the enemy fighter over the head. The campground is already springing to life as your bandit minions charge into combat. My first reaction: Again, secure the daughter, but this time, start sneak attacking. If that battle turns sour, take her hostage. Best Scenario *Wham*, you hear the enemy rogue walk into your (lit) campfire as he sneaks towards your tent. He curses and drops his weapon. My first reaction: Draw weapon and go to town on this guy.
Vaelan 04-17-06, 09:38 PM	Sudden Stunning is from DMG2. The lone Rogue's tactics are as follows. 1. Run. 2. Hide. 3. Ambush later.