Battlefield Counters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Battlefield Counters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mblatcher
04-22-05, 12:32 PM I am planning my largest battle yet. Three squards of orcs are invading a town, 73 orcs total. What do you usually use for counters? Is it best to just rip up some paper and number them or is there something more sophisticated I can try? I usually use D6's, but after number six it gets harder to keep track of what's what.

Along those same lines, in a large scale battle, do I need to roll for each of the fodder orcs who probably won't hit anyway? Is there a simple way to do that? I think the orcs would have to roll a 20 to hit regardless and that is still 60 rolls I'd have to make. Of course the fodder is just that...fodder, there for the PCs to tear through quickly on their way to the tougher enemies.

Thanks for your help.
True Cavalier
04-22-05, 12:45 PM When I ran such a thing (pcs teleported in the middle of a village that was already overwhelmed with orcs) I let the battle everywhere unfold as a video while the pcs were rushing here and there to help on various spots. I needed to roll only for orcs that happened to be in the pcs way (among the general slaughter, most orcs were just ignoring them). But the thing there was that it already was a lost battle, the commoners and militia had stopped fighting back, and so on.

Now you can either determine the course of the battle with "if the pcs do that, this happens" thinking (to save the rolls, simple example: If the pcs kill the leader, orc squads 2&3 leave and the rest keep fighting and die, while if the pcs can't stop the orcs from entering the temple through the back door, the villagers will fall) to get rid of the rolls except for what the pcs do, while all other attacks (from orcs to villagers, from militia to orcs and so on) are just evocative description...

...or just run the entire battle as a number of smaller ones (eg pcs first attack a small number of orcs that camped in the woods, then come back and fight the orc scouts that attack the village, then rush to the town hall to save the mayor from the orcs there, then hunt down any remaining forces). This makes things less complicated but will take just as long.

EDIT: You can also use mass-die rollers, but your brain may explode. And the game will still be rather slow if the pcs have to deal with every single orc.
psionichamster
04-22-05, 12:48 PM i use cardboard circles cut out in Large and Huge sizes (2 in and 3 in, respectively) and numbered them H1, H2, L1, L2, etc

then again, i play a summoner this game, and it was kinda necessary

takes about 5 min to make half a dozen...50 min of drawing and cutting, and you'd have your 60 orcs

also, you can keep them around (shoebox cardboard is great...light enough to cut easily, but tough enough to stand being moved around a lot

there are also paper-mini printing programs...check out the master DM index and look for counters/minis

pennies, and other small objects work best

but the most fun of all

EAT WHAT YOU KILL

get a bag of jellybeans, m&m's, or skittles

each one represents a certain enemy...red is orcs, blue is goblins, etc.

then, when you kill an enemy you get to pick it up and eat

non-edibles serve for good counters...especially when you want to tally up the kills at the end

namaste'
the hamster
Gedrin
04-22-05, 12:51 PM I would divide the larger combat into smaller mini-encounters. Give each a setting and a small goal.

Encounter 1: Start of the battle. Orcs with flaming arros have to be stopped. 6 orcs.

Encounter 2: 1 minute in. Orcs rampaging through town, first melee. 8 orcs.

Encounter 3: Choice, charge the enemy line, or save the villagers that are about to be killed. 4 Orcs, supported by buffs from the commanders.

Encounter 4: Enemy commanders spotted at the edge of town. Must bust through Orc line. 8 orcs. Enemy casters take the chance to drop spells on the stalled pcs.

Encounter 5: Orc Leaders. PC's confront the orc leaders.

Don't forget to drop some environmental information into the event. Villagers battling it out and some other harsh images so you don't loose the impact of an orc attack on a village.
Draco Strang
04-22-05, 12:58 PM If you're doing a giant melee free for all killing orgy, then group the orcs in sub-groups of say...6, and have each figure represent 6 of them. When the PCs get close, actually turn that die into 6 individual orcs, and then fight out that scenario.

Keeps from clogging your battle mat.
milow
04-22-05, 01:06 PM I agree that you want to look at either staging the battle or another option I've seen is to create a larger counter and treat is as a group of creatures with appropriately more hit points.

If you wish to make counters and have access to a computer with a color printer, here is what I do. I copy the monster image I want to a paint program and repeat if for however many I can fit on a page. In this case I put a thin black 1" border around each one, and add a small white square in bottom right to write a number in. I then print it to regular card stock. Once printed I use a glue stick and glue the printed card stock to another sheet of card stock, then cut them out using a steel ruler and an art knife.

I'll also often bend one corner up so that they are easier to pick up. The double layer of card stock is especially important when you make larger counters as it makes them lie flat. Also works great for tiles containing terrain etc.
mblatcher
04-22-05, 04:20 PM Those are some great ideas. I'll think about splitting the battle into smaller encounters, and the cardboard cut outs...that's just crazy enough to work! Seriously I amaze myself with how something that simple could escape me. I don't know what that says about me, but anyways, thanks for the help.
sburnhamh
04-22-05, 06:07 PM You would be surprised at what a few dollars can get you in common D&D minis. If you don't like eBay you may be able to find a game store that has a minis skirmish night. Even if you don't want to play you can talk to the people who show up about possible buys/trades. While you're there you can even check out some of the game mechanics for skirmish battles, maybe browse the bigger D&D minis guidebook on mass combat and formations / facing / movement.
mblatcher
04-22-05, 06:19 PM I did look into buying the orc minis, but to buy 70-something orcs that I'll probably never use again, is pretty extreme. Very high cool factor, unfortunately too high in the wallet factor.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mblatcher 04-22-05, 12:32 PM	I am planning my largest battle yet. Three squards of orcs are invading a town, 73 orcs total. What do you usually use for counters? Is it best to just rip up some paper and number them or is there something more sophisticated I can try? I usually use D6's, but after number six it gets harder to keep track of what's what. Along those same lines, in a large scale battle, do I need to roll for each of the fodder orcs who probably won't hit anyway? Is there a simple way to do that? I think the orcs would have to roll a 20 to hit regardless and that is still 60 rolls I'd have to make. Of course the fodder is just that...fodder, there for the PCs to tear through quickly on their way to the tougher enemies. Thanks for your help.
True Cavalier 04-22-05, 12:45 PM	When I ran such a thing (pcs teleported in the middle of a village that was already overwhelmed with orcs) I let the battle everywhere unfold as a video while the pcs were rushing here and there to help on various spots. I needed to roll only for orcs that happened to be in the pcs way (among the general slaughter, most orcs were just ignoring them). But the thing there was that it already was a lost battle, the commoners and militia had stopped fighting back, and so on. Now you can either determine the course of the battle with "if the pcs do that, this happens" thinking (to save the rolls, simple example: If the pcs kill the leader, orc squads 2&3 leave and the rest keep fighting and die, while if the pcs can't stop the orcs from entering the temple through the back door, the villagers will fall) to get rid of the rolls except for what the pcs do, while all other attacks (from orcs to villagers, from militia to orcs and so on) are just evocative description... ...or just run the entire battle as a number of smaller ones (eg pcs first attack a small number of orcs that camped in the woods, then come back and fight the orc scouts that attack the village, then rush to the town hall to save the mayor from the orcs there, then hunt down any remaining forces). This makes things less complicated but will take just as long. EDIT: You can also use mass-die rollers, but your brain may explode. And the game will still be rather slow if the pcs have to deal with every single orc.
psionichamster 04-22-05, 12:48 PM	i use cardboard circles cut out in Large and Huge sizes (2 in and 3 in, respectively) and numbered them H1, H2, L1, L2, etc then again, i play a summoner this game, and it was kinda necessary takes about 5 min to make half a dozen...50 min of drawing and cutting, and you'd have your 60 orcs also, you can keep them around (shoebox cardboard is great...light enough to cut easily, but tough enough to stand being moved around a lot there are also paper-mini printing programs...check out the master DM index and look for counters/minis pennies, and other small objects work best but the most fun of all EAT WHAT YOU KILL get a bag of jellybeans, m&m's, or skittles each one represents a certain enemy...red is orcs, blue is goblins, etc. then, when you kill an enemy you get to pick it up and eat non-edibles serve for good counters...especially when you want to tally up the kills at the end namaste' the hamster
Gedrin 04-22-05, 12:51 PM	I would divide the larger combat into smaller mini-encounters. Give each a setting and a small goal. Encounter 1: Start of the battle. Orcs with flaming arros have to be stopped. 6 orcs. Encounter 2: 1 minute in. Orcs rampaging through town, first melee. 8 orcs. Encounter 3: Choice, charge the enemy line, or save the villagers that are about to be killed. 4 Orcs, supported by buffs from the commanders. Encounter 4: Enemy commanders spotted at the edge of town. Must bust through Orc line. 8 orcs. Enemy casters take the chance to drop spells on the stalled pcs. Encounter 5: Orc Leaders. PC's confront the orc leaders. Don't forget to drop some environmental information into the event. Villagers battling it out and some other harsh images so you don't loose the impact of an orc attack on a village.
Draco Strang 04-22-05, 12:58 PM	If you're doing a giant melee free for all killing orgy, then group the orcs in sub-groups of say...6, and have each figure represent 6 of them. When the PCs get close, actually turn that die into 6 individual orcs, and then fight out that scenario. Keeps from clogging your battle mat.
milow 04-22-05, 01:06 PM	I agree that you want to look at either staging the battle or another option I've seen is to create a larger counter and treat is as a group of creatures with appropriately more hit points. If you wish to make counters and have access to a computer with a color printer, here is what I do. I copy the monster image I want to a paint program and repeat if for however many I can fit on a page. In this case I put a thin black 1" border around each one, and add a small white square in bottom right to write a number in. I then print it to regular card stock. Once printed I use a glue stick and glue the printed card stock to another sheet of card stock, then cut them out using a steel ruler and an art knife. I'll also often bend one corner up so that they are easier to pick up. The double layer of card stock is especially important when you make larger counters as it makes them lie flat. Also works great for tiles containing terrain etc.
mblatcher 04-22-05, 04:20 PM	Those are some great ideas. I'll think about splitting the battle into smaller encounters, and the cardboard cut outs...that's just crazy enough to work! Seriously I amaze myself with how something that simple could escape me. I don't know what that says about me, but anyways, thanks for the help.
sburnhamh 04-22-05, 06:07 PM	You would be surprised at what a few dollars can get you in common D&D minis. If you don't like eBay you may be able to find a game store that has a minis skirmish night. Even if you don't want to play you can talk to the people who show up about possible buys/trades. While you're there you can even check out some of the game mechanics for skirmish battles, maybe browse the bigger D&D minis guidebook on mass combat and formations / facing / movement.
mblatcher 04-22-05, 06:19 PM	I did look into buying the orc minis, but to buy 70-something orcs that I'll probably never use again, is pretty extreme. Very high cool factor, unfortunately too high in the wallet factor.