battling a avatar? [Archive] - Wizards Community

battling a avatar? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rbrt_Spade
08-24-05, 03:22 PM in the next campaign im planning, im would like the pcs to fight an avatar of a god-somehow if the avatar is killed, the god is slain(dont like epic) :P what do you think the avatar stats for a god would be? mabye just use normal npc stats? also my fellow dms, what do you think would be a good avatar of my custom make for nerull?-any ideas taken(but not things like a chicken) ;)
Illion the Red
08-24-05, 03:38 PM Umm...if killing the avatar kills the god, then isn't the avatar the god? Use the stats for the god.

If you want something more toned-down, use the Aspect of Nerull from the Minatures Handbook.
rbrt_Spade
08-24-05, 03:41 PM i was thinking red of somehow the avatar being killed kills the god somehow not fighting the god itself-like in the avatar books of fr-on fr its just the avatars of the gods. in dl fizban is just a avatar of paladine not the god himself coming from the upper panes
Pyritefoolsgold
08-24-05, 04:58 PM If using an avatar exposes a god to posible death at the hands of mere mortals, then why in the names of the heavens and the hells would any god ever use an avatar?
DaveReaves
08-24-05, 05:19 PM Yea, I'm going to have to go along with what the other guys have said here. Killing an avitar should in no way kill the god. Personaly, I don't think that imortals should be killable by any means, but thats an argument for another thread.

Now if you wanted the gods to be a little more connected to their avitars, you could say that avitars work kind of like familars. When one is slain, the god takes damage (assuming that your deities have hit points) and a new one can't be constucted for a year or so (A long time to humans, but a deity would not miss the time).
Solik
08-24-05, 05:49 PM You quoted the Avatar books (great trilogy, btw), so I have an idea of what you want. What you need to do is set it up so that the god is actually reduced to the status of a mortal (just like in those books). You'll probably want to use some other reason (something easily tied into your campaign), but the same idea will work.

For stats, use the normal NPC stats as a starting guide. Then, boost the most important stats to that deity by a good amount (at least 5 points I'd say) and the others by maybe two. Toss in a couple special abilities tied into that deity (some may be spell-like abilities or powers, while others may just be free feats, like automatic weapon focus & specialization for every weapon for the avatar of a war god, or all the sudden metamagics for the avatar of a god of magic). Make sure the equipment is top-notch, but be careful what you give to the players. You can make magic items that only work for the deity's avatar, but that'll feel a little cheap to your players.
Jagyr Ebonwood
08-24-05, 06:03 PM If using an avatar exposes a god to posible death at the hands of mere mortals, then why in the names of the heavens and the hells would any god ever use an avatar?
Maybe it should be more like...a god puts a lot of his personal energy into an avatar, similar to Sauron and the One Ring. When the avatar is killed, the god loses that energy, and becomes much weaker. The god could then go into hiding for several millenia or so to build up his strength again, making him effectively dead to the campaign world.

I did something like this recently with a pit fiend who was semi-possessing a paladin. He basically put half of himself into the paladin, trying to corrupt his soul. The paladin managed to have the pit fiend exorcised from him, and it destroyed that half of the fiend's soul. When the pally faced the fiend as the final battle, the fiend was only half as effective as he normally would be.
It's a good way, I think, to tone down an otherwise deadly encounter. It makes sense from an RP perspective.
Seraph of Babel
08-25-05, 07:19 AM An avatar has half the divine ranks of a god. So the avatar of a greater god is effectively a lesser god. Killing an avatar does not kill a god. The rules are in Deities & Demigods or Divine SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/).

However, if you are talking about the Time of Troubles in Forgotten Realms, then it is a different case. Those avatars are much weaker than normal avatars - it is more like Ao stripped the gods of their divinity and cast them from the planes. These would be like NPCs with high ability scores and divine rank 0 (quasi-deity) or some kind of template (e.g. divinely-infused template from d20 Requiem of a God). You may want to build Nerull in this way as a true necromancer (Libris Mortis).
Kalidor
08-25-05, 02:19 PM You could rule that if an Avatar is killed on a plane other than his home plane then he cannot visit that plane for 1000 years or something. That would effectively 'kill' him as far as the players are concerned.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rbrt_Spade 08-24-05, 03:22 PM	in the next campaign im planning, im would like the pcs to fight an avatar of a god-somehow if the avatar is killed, the god is slain(dont like epic) :P what do you think the avatar stats for a god would be? mabye just use normal npc stats? also my fellow dms, what do you think would be a good avatar of my custom make for nerull?-any ideas taken(but not things like a chicken) ;)
Illion the Red 08-24-05, 03:38 PM	Umm...if killing the avatar kills the god, then isn't the avatar the god? Use the stats for the god. If you want something more toned-down, use the Aspect of Nerull from the Minatures Handbook.
rbrt_Spade 08-24-05, 03:41 PM	i was thinking red of somehow the avatar being killed kills the god somehow not fighting the god itself-like in the avatar books of fr-on fr its just the avatars of the gods. in dl fizban is just a avatar of paladine not the god himself coming from the upper panes
Pyritefoolsgold 08-24-05, 04:58 PM	If using an avatar exposes a god to posible death at the hands of mere mortals, then why in the names of the heavens and the hells would any god ever use an avatar?
DaveReaves 08-24-05, 05:19 PM	Yea, I'm going to have to go along with what the other guys have said here. Killing an avitar should in no way kill the god. Personaly, I don't think that imortals should be killable by any means, but thats an argument for another thread. Now if you wanted the gods to be a little more connected to their avitars, you could say that avitars work kind of like familars. When one is slain, the god takes damage (assuming that your deities have hit points) and a new one can't be constucted for a year or so (A long time to humans, but a deity would not miss the time).
Solik 08-24-05, 05:49 PM	You quoted the Avatar books (great trilogy, btw), so I have an idea of what you want. What you need to do is set it up so that the god is actually reduced to the status of a mortal (just like in those books). You'll probably want to use some other reason (something easily tied into your campaign), but the same idea will work. For stats, use the normal NPC stats as a starting guide. Then, boost the most important stats to that deity by a good amount (at least 5 points I'd say) and the others by maybe two. Toss in a couple special abilities tied into that deity (some may be spell-like abilities or powers, while others may just be free feats, like automatic weapon focus & specialization for every weapon for the avatar of a war god, or all the sudden metamagics for the avatar of a god of magic). Make sure the equipment is top-notch, but be careful what you give to the players. You can make magic items that only work for the deity's avatar, but that'll feel a little cheap to your players.
Jagyr Ebonwood 08-24-05, 06:03 PM	If using an avatar exposes a god to posible death at the hands of mere mortals, then why in the names of the heavens and the hells would any god ever use an avatar? Maybe it should be more like...a god puts a lot of his personal energy into an avatar, similar to Sauron and the One Ring. When the avatar is killed, the god loses that energy, and becomes much weaker. The god could then go into hiding for several millenia or so to build up his strength again, making him effectively dead to the campaign world. I did something like this recently with a pit fiend who was semi-possessing a paladin. He basically put half of himself into the paladin, trying to corrupt his soul. The paladin managed to have the pit fiend exorcised from him, and it destroyed that half of the fiend's soul. When the pally faced the fiend as the final battle, the fiend was only half as effective as he normally would be. It's a good way, I think, to tone down an otherwise deadly encounter. It makes sense from an RP perspective.
Seraph of Babel 08-25-05, 07:19 AM	An avatar has half the divine ranks of a god. So the avatar of a greater god is effectively a lesser god. Killing an avatar does not kill a god. The rules are in Deities & Demigods or Divine SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/). However, if you are talking about the Time of Troubles in Forgotten Realms, then it is a different case. Those avatars are much weaker than normal avatars - it is more like Ao stripped the gods of their divinity and cast them from the planes. These would be like NPCs with high ability scores and divine rank 0 (quasi-deity) or some kind of template (e.g. divinely-infused template from d20 Requiem of a God). You may want to build Nerull in this way as a true necromancer (Libris Mortis).
Kalidor 08-25-05, 02:19 PM	You could rule that if an Avatar is killed on a plane other than his home plane then he cannot visit that plane for 1000 years or something. That would effectively 'kill' him as far as the players are concerned.