BBEG idea is TOO B! [Archive] - Wizards Community

BBEG idea is TOO B! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SmiloDan
10-08-03, 01:05 PM I have an idea for a BBEG, but I think she would be too powerful for the PCs right now. Her name is Verdigris, and she is a chaotic evil illborn nymph with the Blighter PrC 10. That makes her CR 17. I gave her all the nymph abilities except she lost her druid spells (a pre-req for the Blighter class), and she has been horribly scarred by a black dragon, so her Blinding Beauty was replaced by the Green Hag's Horrific Appearance ability.

The black dragon that did this Old, with a CR of 16.

Right now, the PCs are 3rd level. What kind of minions should I use. I am thinking of using a Hag Covey, but that's a little extreme at this stage.

Maybe goblins and hobgoblins and bugbears? Why would they ally themselves with a creature that destroys the forest they live in? (Verdigris uses deforestation once per day in a 500 foot radius, which is pretty extreme!)

Maybe dark unseelie elves?
Mike the DM
10-08-03, 01:38 PM I created a very similar BBEG once (without the horrific scarring, that is). She used the fey in the forest as her "cannon fodder" - the dryads were forced to fight for her or she'd would blight their groves, the nixies their lakes, &c. She was also served by a band of goblinoids led by a hobgoblin ranger/druid, who acted as her primary enforcers among the fey.

Interesting how much trouble a lake full of nixie snipers can create for a group of adventurers!
SmiloDan
10-08-03, 01:46 PM The major theme I want to explore is "Civilization versus Nature: Which is Better for Mankind?" So having good and evil fey, as well as good and evil farmer and city folk, should make it interesting.

Right now, I want to somehow create sympathy for the chaotic evil orc barbarians on the plains outside the big fey forest. Foreign settlers (of which the PCs are descendents) have forced them from their traditional lands. These settlers are also making inroads into the Gloaming (fey forest).

I guess I can also focus on darkelves and goblins in the forest, with some different kinds of bosses.
Dash Branaghan
10-08-03, 01:51 PM Even if she is too powerful, she may be akin to the Joker or some other mythic BBEG who doesn't feel that she needs to take on the Party, so she lets her random thugs handle the situation.

As far as random thugs, I have a blighter in my world who basically morphed the animals of the forest. I added the half flesh golem template to standard animals and the PCs could fight those. I warn you now though that the creatures are still pretty powerful, especially the boar and bear. My group was around level 3 as well.

Or alternately you could apply half fiend templates to a handful of goblins and they keep normal goblins in line (like the Uruk-hai and the orcs).
Nived
10-08-03, 01:59 PM Lots of undead forrest creatures.
Fixxxer
10-08-03, 02:54 PM Originally posted by Nived
Lots of undead forrest creatures.

Isn't there a sort of undead druid PrC in Masters of the Wild? A few of these could make for some good allies.
Mr. Wilson
10-08-03, 03:24 PM How about NPC Evil Druids and their animal friends.

In the Unapproachable East FR book, you can have some wicked cool things to throw at them based on this idea.

For instance, you could attack them with Hagspawns, which only have a CR of level +1, the blightspawned template (which also adds a +1 to the CR while turning them into plants that spread infection), and of course, the Talontar Blightlord PrC for your Lt. Evil Druid minions.

PM me or email me for the info on that stuff if you want it, if you don't have the UE book.
Taran Alvein
10-08-03, 03:51 PM Evil, horribly corrupted humans will undoubtedly want to join her cause. Orcs would probably help as well, as long as their is the promise of battle, conquest, and pillage. Chaotic Neutral/any Evil mercenaries might help her as well, but some, only through some negotiations through a human intermediary (not all would be willing to help a Blighter simply because there's money involved). Of course, goblins and undead also make good minions, and by using lots of zombies, you could easily make the players think that they're dealing with an out-of-control Necromancer or perhaps even a Lich.

Simply on the grounds that she's evil, depending on whether she's lawful or chaotic evil, she may be assisted more closely by demons or devils. I might save those for later, though. And, if there are demons or devils about, there can be no doubt in my mind that she will also have some Blackguards in her service, either directly or indirectly.

Also, it's a bit of a stretch, but you might have her in good standing with an Illithid or two, and have them controlling some minor nobles from behind the scenes. In that way, you might create a couple safe places for her to hide when the heroes really start dogging her tracks.

Finally, perhaps you could have some corrupted fey creatures helping her out, as earlier suggested.

Edit: Oh yes, and don't forget that a little fear can go quite a long way. If she and her troops have impressed some unfortunate soldiers into her service, so much the better. Strive to make your BBEGs as evil as possible.
MinusInnocence
10-08-03, 04:10 PM You're right: the Illithid IS a stretch. However...

Perhaps there are a few nobles who are willing to expend their manpower to help the local baron/knight/whatever to clear the forest of evil, if they are allowed a piece of the pie when the situation is resolved. In actuality, though, they are sponsoring the Fey Blighter for exactly this reason: if the land is obliterated to the point where the powers-that-be no longer want anything to do with it, it will be easy pickings.

Obviously, this small group of nobles will have to be of the variety that are willing to think in the long-term: planning for their families in a few generations, when the Blight has been cleared. So, it stands to reason that there is at least one among them that doesn't want to think in the long-term: he wants it all NOW. This individual would not be above betraying his fellows AND the Blighter if the price (or opportunity) was right.

The other ideas were good: goblinoids are, as a whole, concerned with conquest and capturing slaves, not preserving nature... so they make very decent "mundane" minions. Orcs, too, just want phat lewt and food, but it is more difficult to rally them all to a common cause, so the Blighter would have probably needed to decimate one or more rival clans before the remaining orcs were willing to comply.

Don't forget about the black dragon, either! Depending on the circumstances of its final bout with the Blighter, it may still be looking to finish the job. The PCs should be able, if they are willing, to look to it for assistance (if they feel they can trust it). For kicks, its kobold minions would be an unwilling, but certainly available, fighting force against the Blighter's armies: better yet, lizardfolk (who also may or may not have a propensity for worship of a black wyrm) are more traditionally attuned with Nature and so are likely to take offense to this Fey destroying everything in her path.

And, finally, the Unseelie court would probably grant Verdigris their full support... in that her goals are directly opposed to the "good" Fey. The mortal realm may be hopelessly grotesque, at least as far as the Seelie are concerned... but this Blighter ruining everything she touches isn't going to improve matters much. Thus, an interplanar war springing up out of all the massive conflict that this person is causing isn't unlikely.

It sounds like you have a great campaign concept on your hands. Truthfully, the Blighter doesn't need to be nearly that powerful; only powerful enough for various factions to want to either ally with her or stand against her.
SmiloDan
10-08-03, 04:44 PM Lots of good ideas!

The main flavor of the campaign I want to project is a cross between the Wild West and Faerieland. I am also emphasizing the Law vs Chaos over the Good vs Evil axis. I have a Lawful Neutral with Good tendencies deity whose dogma is to cut down the forest to make more farmland to improve society. The Unseelie live in the forest because they like living in forests, not plains or deserts, so most would be in opposition to deforestation. Goblins also live in the woods; orcs on the plains (at least in this region of my campaign world). The goblins and the elves fall under the aegis of the Seelie and Unseelie courts of the Sidhe, so they'll probably be allies, even if they don't trust each other.

My current plan is for Verdigris to somehow get the PCs to take out the dragon that wounded her so much in the past. Old black dragons are CR 16, Verdigris is CR 17. Guess what I want to happen.

Right now, I have 2 main PCs and 2 less involved ones. Of the 2 main PCs, one is a half-orc wizard 2/barbarian 1 who claims to have the true neutrality of a druid. I offered a healthy bounty on wolfskins, and he turned that down. He wants to go after the wolf HUNTERS for free, which is unusual for this mercenary group. The second primary PC is a rogue 3 gonna be a ranger wannabe a shadowdancer. So hopefully he'll pick up some concern for nature at some point. He is Chaotic Neutral, but not the crazy kind, the egocentric kind. They are also currently wanted for a crime they did commit--the murder of some townguards from a town that worships the deity of community. So that makes things interesting.

Ideally, I would like to get an alliance formed between the paladins and cleric of Praxis (LN deity of community and deforestation) and the forces of Verdigris. Of course, Verdigris will have to get some non-evil allies to act as an intermediaries.

Other political forces in the region is the city of Thingminster (ruled by an uncaring sorcerer of great power), Blackcrown Keep (ruled by a LE ranger 6/blackguard 10), and the miser of Parsimony (an EXTREMELY wealthy and old human rogue 15).

I need to develop a Chaotic Good/Chaotic Neutral/Neutral Good bastion in the Gloaming of the elves, fey, and goblins. Probably an branch of the Court of Dreams or one of the other Sidhe Courts.
dawgfan
10-08-03, 04:49 PM By the way i was wondering what BBEG standed for i know it basically means the campaigns main bad guy but what does it stand for?
SmiloDan
10-08-03, 04:52 PM Big Bad Evil Guy. It took me like 6 months on these boards to find that out!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SmiloDan 10-08-03, 01:05 PM	I have an idea for a BBEG, but I think she would be too powerful for the PCs right now. Her name is Verdigris, and she is a chaotic evil illborn nymph with the Blighter PrC 10. That makes her CR 17. I gave her all the nymph abilities except she lost her druid spells (a pre-req for the Blighter class), and she has been horribly scarred by a black dragon, so her Blinding Beauty was replaced by the Green Hag's Horrific Appearance ability. The black dragon that did this Old, with a CR of 16. Right now, the PCs are 3rd level. What kind of minions should I use. I am thinking of using a Hag Covey, but that's a little extreme at this stage. Maybe goblins and hobgoblins and bugbears? Why would they ally themselves with a creature that destroys the forest they live in? (Verdigris uses deforestation once per day in a 500 foot radius, which is pretty extreme!) Maybe dark unseelie elves?
Mike the DM 10-08-03, 01:38 PM	I created a very similar BBEG once (without the horrific scarring, that is). She used the fey in the forest as her "cannon fodder" - the dryads were forced to fight for her or she'd would blight their groves, the nixies their lakes, &c. She was also served by a band of goblinoids led by a hobgoblin ranger/druid, who acted as her primary enforcers among the fey. Interesting how much trouble a lake full of nixie snipers can create for a group of adventurers!
SmiloDan 10-08-03, 01:46 PM	The major theme I want to explore is "Civilization versus Nature: Which is Better for Mankind?" So having good and evil fey, as well as good and evil farmer and city folk, should make it interesting. Right now, I want to somehow create sympathy for the chaotic evil orc barbarians on the plains outside the big fey forest. Foreign settlers (of which the PCs are descendents) have forced them from their traditional lands. These settlers are also making inroads into the Gloaming (fey forest). I guess I can also focus on darkelves and goblins in the forest, with some different kinds of bosses.
Dash Branaghan 10-08-03, 01:51 PM	Even if she is too powerful, she may be akin to the Joker or some other mythic BBEG who doesn't feel that she needs to take on the Party, so she lets her random thugs handle the situation. As far as random thugs, I have a blighter in my world who basically morphed the animals of the forest. I added the half flesh golem template to standard animals and the PCs could fight those. I warn you now though that the creatures are still pretty powerful, especially the boar and bear. My group was around level 3 as well. Or alternately you could apply half fiend templates to a handful of goblins and they keep normal goblins in line (like the Uruk-hai and the orcs).
Nived 10-08-03, 01:59 PM	Lots of undead forrest creatures.
Fixxxer 10-08-03, 02:54 PM	Originally posted by Nived Lots of undead forrest creatures. Isn't there a sort of undead druid PrC in Masters of the Wild? A few of these could make for some good allies.
Mr. Wilson 10-08-03, 03:24 PM	How about NPC Evil Druids and their animal friends. In the Unapproachable East FR book, you can have some wicked cool things to throw at them based on this idea. For instance, you could attack them with Hagspawns, which only have a CR of level +1, the blightspawned template (which also adds a +1 to the CR while turning them into plants that spread infection), and of course, the Talontar Blightlord PrC for your Lt. Evil Druid minions. PM me or email me for the info on that stuff if you want it, if you don't have the UE book.
Taran Alvein 10-08-03, 03:51 PM	Evil, horribly corrupted humans will undoubtedly want to join her cause. Orcs would probably help as well, as long as their is the promise of battle, conquest, and pillage. Chaotic Neutral/any Evil mercenaries might help her as well, but some, only through some negotiations through a human intermediary (not all would be willing to help a Blighter simply because there's money involved). Of course, goblins and undead also make good minions, and by using lots of zombies, you could easily make the players think that they're dealing with an out-of-control Necromancer or perhaps even a Lich. Simply on the grounds that she's evil, depending on whether she's lawful or chaotic evil, she may be assisted more closely by demons or devils. I might save those for later, though. And, if there are demons or devils about, there can be no doubt in my mind that she will also have some Blackguards in her service, either directly or indirectly. Also, it's a bit of a stretch, but you might have her in good standing with an Illithid or two, and have them controlling some minor nobles from behind the scenes. In that way, you might create a couple safe places for her to hide when the heroes really start dogging her tracks. Finally, perhaps you could have some corrupted fey creatures helping her out, as earlier suggested. Edit: Oh yes, and don't forget that a little fear can go quite a long way. If she and her troops have impressed some unfortunate soldiers into her service, so much the better. Strive to make your BBEGs as evil as possible.
MinusInnocence 10-08-03, 04:10 PM	You're right: the Illithid IS a stretch. However... Perhaps there are a few nobles who are willing to expend their manpower to help the local baron/knight/whatever to clear the forest of evil, if they are allowed a piece of the pie when the situation is resolved. In actuality, though, they are sponsoring the Fey Blighter for exactly this reason: if the land is obliterated to the point where the powers-that-be no longer want anything to do with it, it will be easy pickings. Obviously, this small group of nobles will have to be of the variety that are willing to think in the long-term: planning for their families in a few generations, when the Blight has been cleared. So, it stands to reason that there is at least one among them that doesn't want to think in the long-term: he wants it all NOW. This individual would not be above betraying his fellows AND the Blighter if the price (or opportunity) was right. The other ideas were good: goblinoids are, as a whole, concerned with conquest and capturing slaves, not preserving nature... so they make very decent "mundane" minions. Orcs, too, just want phat lewt and food, but it is more difficult to rally them all to a common cause, so the Blighter would have probably needed to decimate one or more rival clans before the remaining orcs were willing to comply. Don't forget about the black dragon, either! Depending on the circumstances of its final bout with the Blighter, it may still be looking to finish the job. The PCs should be able, if they are willing, to look to it for assistance (if they feel they can trust it). For kicks, its kobold minions would be an unwilling, but certainly available, fighting force against the Blighter's armies: better yet, lizardfolk (who also may or may not have a propensity for worship of a black wyrm) are more traditionally attuned with Nature and so are likely to take offense to this Fey destroying everything in her path. And, finally, the Unseelie court would probably grant Verdigris their full support... in that her goals are directly opposed to the "good" Fey. The mortal realm may be hopelessly grotesque, at least as far as the Seelie are concerned... but this Blighter ruining everything she touches isn't going to improve matters much. Thus, an interplanar war springing up out of all the massive conflict that this person is causing isn't unlikely. It sounds like you have a great campaign concept on your hands. Truthfully, the Blighter doesn't need to be nearly that powerful; only powerful enough for various factions to want to either ally with her or stand against her.
SmiloDan 10-08-03, 04:44 PM	Lots of good ideas! The main flavor of the campaign I want to project is a cross between the Wild West and Faerieland. I am also emphasizing the Law vs Chaos over the Good vs Evil axis. I have a Lawful Neutral with Good tendencies deity whose dogma is to cut down the forest to make more farmland to improve society. The Unseelie live in the forest because they like living in forests, not plains or deserts, so most would be in opposition to deforestation. Goblins also live in the woods; orcs on the plains (at least in this region of my campaign world). The goblins and the elves fall under the aegis of the Seelie and Unseelie courts of the Sidhe, so they'll probably be allies, even if they don't trust each other. My current plan is for Verdigris to somehow get the PCs to take out the dragon that wounded her so much in the past. Old black dragons are CR 16, Verdigris is CR 17. Guess what I want to happen. Right now, I have 2 main PCs and 2 less involved ones. Of the 2 main PCs, one is a half-orc wizard 2/barbarian 1 who claims to have the true neutrality of a druid. I offered a healthy bounty on wolfskins, and he turned that down. He wants to go after the wolf HUNTERS for free, which is unusual for this mercenary group. The second primary PC is a rogue 3 gonna be a ranger wannabe a shadowdancer. So hopefully he'll pick up some concern for nature at some point. He is Chaotic Neutral, but not the crazy kind, the egocentric kind. They are also currently wanted for a crime they did commit--the murder of some townguards from a town that worships the deity of community. So that makes things interesting. Ideally, I would like to get an alliance formed between the paladins and cleric of Praxis (LN deity of community and deforestation) and the forces of Verdigris. Of course, Verdigris will have to get some non-evil allies to act as an intermediaries. Other political forces in the region is the city of Thingminster (ruled by an uncaring sorcerer of great power), Blackcrown Keep (ruled by a LE ranger 6/blackguard 10), and the miser of Parsimony (an EXTREMELY wealthy and old human rogue 15). I need to develop a Chaotic Good/Chaotic Neutral/Neutral Good bastion in the Gloaming of the elves, fey, and goblins. Probably an branch of the Court of Dreams or one of the other Sidhe Courts.
dawgfan 10-08-03, 04:49 PM	By the way i was wondering what BBEG standed for i know it basically means the campaigns main bad guy but what does it stand for?
SmiloDan 10-08-03, 04:52 PM	Big Bad Evil Guy. It took me like 6 months on these boards to find that out!