BBEG problems [Archive] - Wizards Community

BBEG problems [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Solian
06-19-07, 05:14 PM Hey there

I introduced the main BBEG in my campaign in my last session, Krazk, a powerful necromancer with a liking for stealing away the minds of others (dominate person alot).

I just have one problem, my players haven't really gotten into the idea of Krazk yet. I want them to really hate him, and i mean loather and despise him! so as they WANT to hurt this guy, not just out of duty because they want to save a town (his undead horde & goblin allies are kinda attacking this town)

does anybody have any ideas on how i can do this?

Thanks in advance
-Solian
Stumm_Dolch
06-19-07, 05:23 PM Make him extremely ellusive. Here's what I mean. If he's aware of your PCs on his trail, he should leave timesinks and traps and encounters in his wake. When PCs feel they are making progress, oops, they've just stumbled into an ambush.

Make everything they do have his fingerprints on it. Try your best not to let them get too close to him before you're ready, but he should always be (or seem to be) just around the next bend.

Don't prolong this excessively or they'll hate him so much they'll get sick of chasing him.
Ace_of_time
06-19-07, 05:29 PM Use his dominate person on one or two of the party member and then have his army kill the town. After they come to their senses and deal with the army they find that he got away and the town is dead. Now they have to find him and stop him before he can do it again. That should get them not liking him

It would be better to use a DMPC or NPC that they know from the past and make it know that he is trying to stop but can't.
PhantomTrain
06-19-07, 05:30 PM Well, the best way to figure out how to make a BBEG, well, E, is to figure out what motivates him. Yes, I get that he's a necromancer who loves to dominate people, but why does he do those things. The more complex the answer, the better. I mean, if he does it because of some pact with the god of death, well, that isn't all that compelling, and it'll be a little harder to make your platers see him as a person that they can hate rather than the final boss of some video game they're playing.

As for what to do to them, well, the sky's the limit. If he's aware of them (like, say, if they manage to stop his army from taking over this town) then he may start going after them in vindictive, personal ways. PCs are notoriously bad at handling indirect aggression. Do any of them have family? If alive, he might take great effort to find them and kidnap them, maybe do horrible things to them. If dead, well, I can't think of a better way to torment your barbarian PC than having a necromantically animated, necrotech-enhanced cybercorpse of his father as your BBEG's shiny new bodyguard. I mean, after all, if the son is powerful enough to stand in this necromancer's way, then surely the father might be powerful enough to justify resurrecting and...augmenting, leaving him with just enough conciousness to realize what he's being forced to do.

Taking things further is really dependant on the maturity level of your crew. I run for adults, so I have very little hesitation in bringing sexuality into the horron, along with violence and torture (I had a very similar BBEG in a campaign of mine who, once the PCs became a significant threat to him, animated the corpse of the cleric's backstory wife, still pregnant with their unborn child, and explained calmly to the cleric that he would use his necromancy to cause the baby to come to term, augment it, and then send it into battle against the PCs. The player almost cried. And when they finally attacked his citadel at the end of the campaign, that child was the Blackguard Assassin that defended the necromancer in the final battle. Killed the cleric. It was unbelievable roleplaying).

Use your discretion when deciding when you've taken things 'too far'. But as for making them hate him, hit them where it hurts. Don't make things unfair, but make the horror personal.
Jhesstar
06-19-07, 06:03 PM on top of knowing your baddies motivation, I would stop and think about your PC's motivation as well.

Have any of them written backgrounds? (this ties in with Phantom's idea which I LOVE) Find something in there and start pushing buttons. No background? What motivates the PC's? Money? Fame? Let the Baddie start pushing their buttons, using them, manipulating them. Getting them to do his dirty work all in the name of "good"

I guarantee when they find out they were puppets they will NOT be happy
BroadStreetBully
06-20-07, 12:31 AM Recently on the Wizards main site there was a series of 5-6 articles written specifically on designing main villains. It was very well written, and I would suggest reading those.
Solian
06-21-07, 11:03 AM Thanks for the advice guys, i loved phantomtrains post ,really motivated me.

I've come up with the idea that the towns leader has been dominated and the tasks he's asking the PC's to do are actually set in place to help the BBEG with his plans. The BBEG has a goblin city on his side with a huge army at the gates of the town (their king was recently killed by the PC's to help "stop" them, and now the BBEG controls the Army and the city, making him alot more influential to the world, as well as having a powerful, strong army to aid him) and they have just been sent after the leader of the thieves guild who was in league with the BBEG (when he's dead, the BBEG can swoop in and take control of them, too).

I'm thinking about maybe having the PC's kill the Elves that are helping the town as "traitors" because they are "working in line with the goblins", when really their not and the BBEG just can't get close enough to the leader to dominate him, and so wants him destroyed.
Confusion567
06-21-07, 01:51 PM Thanks for the advice guys, i loved phantomtrains post ,really motivated me.

I've come up with the idea that the towns leader has been dominated and the tasks he's asking the PC's to do are actually set in place to help the BBEG with his plans. The BBEG has a goblin city on his side with a huge army at the gates of the town (their king was recently killed by the PC's to help "stop" them, and now the BBEG controls the Army and the city, making him alot more influential to the world, as well as having a powerful, strong army to aid him) and they have just been sent after the leader of the thieves guild who was in league with the BBEG (when he's dead, the BBEG can swoop in and take control of them, too).

I'm thinking about maybe having the PC's kill the Elves that are helping the town as "traitors" because they are "working in line with the goblins", when really their not and the BBEG just can't get close enough to the leader to dominate him, and so wants him destroyed.

Oh yeah, that'll tick off the players. Just be sure to have the BBEG smile and say "Thank you for all your help" when he meets them.
(Hehe. Then have him possess one of the players and make the player say "You're welcome, it was our pleasure.")
Zcorpio
06-22-07, 10:42 AM Nice ideas you all have here. Like them, and might use some of them in my upcomming campaign. :thumbsup:

Anyway, i just wants to point out a slight problem in making your players hating the BBEG too much. Personal experience: I have, as a player in different campaigns, experienced some big baddie (usually set up to be a recurring villan) that in one way or the other got too personal in using / punishing the PC's. Like killing / kidnapping / raping etc. family or loved ones, or using / manipulating the PC's just at tad too much.
If it gets too personal, the party may go to any and all lengths to get the guy.
Last time i tried this was when a half-demon mortalhunter was hired to off our party. He was hired to "make us know fear, then to know pain, and then we were to die..."
Anyway, he threatned our families, made feint attacks on us, destroyed our property and the like. This made us take him seriously, and we spent a lot of money to get info about him.
What made the cup flow over was when he stunned the party cleric with Blasphemy, then he shaved the beard of dwarf cleric / divine deciple of Clangeddin with his glaive, and left laughing. And three days later he was dead.
Our party used over 150.000 GP, called in most of our favors and markers, and ended up owing a cuple of major favors to some very powerfull people, including a epic-level necromancer. (we were a good(ish) party)...

My point beeing: watch out about getting too personal... They just might get offended, and shove back... Very hard.

Edit: Spelling...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Solian 06-19-07, 05:14 PM	Hey there I introduced the main BBEG in my campaign in my last session, Krazk, a powerful necromancer with a liking for stealing away the minds of others (dominate person alot). I just have one problem, my players haven't really gotten into the idea of Krazk yet. I want them to really hate him, and i mean loather and despise him! so as they WANT to hurt this guy, not just out of duty because they want to save a town (his undead horde & goblin allies are kinda attacking this town) does anybody have any ideas on how i can do this? Thanks in advance -Solian
Stumm_Dolch 06-19-07, 05:23 PM	Make him extremely ellusive. Here's what I mean. If he's aware of your PCs on his trail, he should leave timesinks and traps and encounters in his wake. When PCs feel they are making progress, oops, they've just stumbled into an ambush. Make everything they do have his fingerprints on it. Try your best not to let them get too close to him before you're ready, but he should always be (or seem to be) just around the next bend. Don't prolong this excessively or they'll hate him so much they'll get sick of chasing him.
Ace_of_time 06-19-07, 05:29 PM	Use his dominate person on one or two of the party member and then have his army kill the town. After they come to their senses and deal with the army they find that he got away and the town is dead. Now they have to find him and stop him before he can do it again. That should get them not liking him It would be better to use a DMPC or NPC that they know from the past and make it know that he is trying to stop but can't.
PhantomTrain 06-19-07, 05:30 PM	Well, the best way to figure out how to make a BBEG, well, E, is to figure out what motivates him. Yes, I get that he's a necromancer who loves to dominate people, but why does he do those things. The more complex the answer, the better. I mean, if he does it because of some pact with the god of death, well, that isn't all that compelling, and it'll be a little harder to make your platers see him as a person that they can hate rather than the final boss of some video game they're playing. As for what to do to them, well, the sky's the limit. If he's aware of them (like, say, if they manage to stop his army from taking over this town) then he may start going after them in vindictive, personal ways. PCs are notoriously bad at handling indirect aggression. Do any of them have family? If alive, he might take great effort to find them and kidnap them, maybe do horrible things to them. If dead, well, I can't think of a better way to torment your barbarian PC than having a necromantically animated, necrotech-enhanced cybercorpse of his father as your BBEG's shiny new bodyguard. I mean, after all, if the son is powerful enough to stand in this necromancer's way, then surely the father might be powerful enough to justify resurrecting and...augmenting, leaving him with just enough conciousness to realize what he's being forced to do. Taking things further is really dependant on the maturity level of your crew. I run for adults, so I have very little hesitation in bringing sexuality into the horron, along with violence and torture (I had a very similar BBEG in a campaign of mine who, once the PCs became a significant threat to him, animated the corpse of the cleric's backstory wife, still pregnant with their unborn child, and explained calmly to the cleric that he would use his necromancy to cause the baby to come to term, augment it, and then send it into battle against the PCs. The player almost cried. And when they finally attacked his citadel at the end of the campaign, that child was the Blackguard Assassin that defended the necromancer in the final battle. Killed the cleric. It was unbelievable roleplaying). Use your discretion when deciding when you've taken things 'too far'. But as for making them hate him, hit them where it hurts. Don't make things unfair, but make the horror personal.
Jhesstar 06-19-07, 06:03 PM	on top of knowing your baddies motivation, I would stop and think about your PC's motivation as well. Have any of them written backgrounds? (this ties in with Phantom's idea which I LOVE) Find something in there and start pushing buttons. No background? What motivates the PC's? Money? Fame? Let the Baddie start pushing their buttons, using them, manipulating them. Getting them to do his dirty work all in the name of "good" I guarantee when they find out they were puppets they will NOT be happy
BroadStreetBully 06-20-07, 12:31 AM	Recently on the Wizards main site there was a series of 5-6 articles written specifically on designing main villains. It was very well written, and I would suggest reading those.
Solian 06-21-07, 11:03 AM	Thanks for the advice guys, i loved phantomtrains post ,really motivated me. I've come up with the idea that the towns leader has been dominated and the tasks he's asking the PC's to do are actually set in place to help the BBEG with his plans. The BBEG has a goblin city on his side with a huge army at the gates of the town (their king was recently killed by the PC's to help "stop" them, and now the BBEG controls the Army and the city, making him alot more influential to the world, as well as having a powerful, strong army to aid him) and they have just been sent after the leader of the thieves guild who was in league with the BBEG (when he's dead, the BBEG can swoop in and take control of them, too). I'm thinking about maybe having the PC's kill the Elves that are helping the town as "traitors" because they are "working in line with the goblins", when really their not and the BBEG just can't get close enough to the leader to dominate him, and so wants him destroyed.
Confusion567 06-21-07, 01:51 PM	Thanks for the advice guys, i loved phantomtrains post ,really motivated me. I've come up with the idea that the towns leader has been dominated and the tasks he's asking the PC's to do are actually set in place to help the BBEG with his plans. The BBEG has a goblin city on his side with a huge army at the gates of the town (their king was recently killed by the PC's to help "stop" them, and now the BBEG controls the Army and the city, making him alot more influential to the world, as well as having a powerful, strong army to aid him) and they have just been sent after the leader of the thieves guild who was in league with the BBEG (when he's dead, the BBEG can swoop in and take control of them, too). I'm thinking about maybe having the PC's kill the Elves that are helping the town as "traitors" because they are "working in line with the goblins", when really their not and the BBEG just can't get close enough to the leader to dominate him, and so wants him destroyed. Oh yeah, that'll tick off the players. Just be sure to have the BBEG smile and say "Thank you for all your help" when he meets them. (Hehe. Then have him possess one of the players and make the player say "You're welcome, it was our pleasure.")
Zcorpio 06-22-07, 10:42 AM	Nice ideas you all have here. Like them, and might use some of them in my upcomming campaign. :thumbsup: Anyway, i just wants to point out a slight problem in making your players hating the BBEG too much. Personal experience: I have, as a player in different campaigns, experienced some big baddie (usually set up to be a recurring villan) that in one way or the other got too personal in using / punishing the PC's. Like killing / kidnapping / raping etc. family or loved ones, or using / manipulating the PC's just at tad too much. If it gets too personal, the party may go to any and all lengths to get the guy. Last time i tried this was when a half-demon mortalhunter was hired to off our party. He was hired to "make us know fear, then to know pain, and then we were to die..." Anyway, he threatned our families, made feint attacks on us, destroyed our property and the like. This made us take him seriously, and we spent a lot of money to get info about him. What made the cup flow over was when he stunned the party cleric with Blasphemy, then he shaved the beard of dwarf cleric / divine deciple of Clangeddin with his glaive, and left laughing. And three days later he was dead. Our party used over 150.000 GP, called in most of our favors and markers, and ended up owing a cuple of major favors to some very powerfull people, including a epic-level necromancer. (we were a good(ish) party)... My point beeing: watch out about getting too personal... They just might get offended, and shove back... Very hard. Edit: Spelling...