Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pollux_crimson 02-06-04, 11:55 AM	I've got a few (well, 5) evil lords in kind of a Ravenloft style. Much like the Ravenloft lords, I want these to have tragic weaknesses. I want these people to be near-indestructable until the PCs discover their tragic flaws. However, I'm having trouble brainstorming the actual flaws without making them blatantly obvious. Here's a brief rundown of the lords: 1) A lich king in an underground city of the dead. A very small community of humans (2000 - just enough for breeding variety purposes) is used to continually swell the ranks of the undead. 2) An illusionist who runs a theater. The plays and magic shows use audiance participants placed in deadly positions. Illusions and glamers are used to mask the fact that the audiance members are actually killed, and replaced by dopplegangers during the show. 3) A warlord in a massive castle who keeps whipping surrounding tribes of barbarians into a constant frenzy of war. Civilian populations in the region are kept deliberately helpless against them. 4) A gargantuan yeti who wanders a desolate winter wasteland. Small pockets of human tribes live in geothermally-heated caves in this realm. 5) An insane torturer in a well-guarded citadel, who keeps his victims alive via magic for centuries. ----- For those of you who aren't familiar with Ravenloft, most of the Ravenloft Lords have a weakness that's exploitable - Strahd longs for his lost love, who's constantly reincarnated, etc. I'm looking for ideas for something similar for use with the above, but I'd like something new and unique. Any ideas?
Toptomcat 02-06-04, 12:07 PM	Well, frankly...these have weaknesses without needing special story weaknesses. 1) A lich king in an underground city of the dead. A very small community of humans (2000 - just enough for breeding variety purposes) is used to continually swell the ranks of the undead. The human community is likely quite :censored::censored::censored::censored: :censored::censored: off at this, so an insurgancy wouldn't be hard to raise...and liches in particular (and undead in general) have a whole slew of vulnerabilities anyway. 2) An illusionist who runs a theater. The plays and magic shows use audiance participants placed in deadly positions. Illusions and glamers are used to mask the fact that the audiance members are actually killed, and replaced by dopplegangers during the show. An Antimagic Field at a crucial junction should end this farce. 3) A warlord in a massive castle who keeps whipping surrounding tribes of barbarians into a constant frenzy of war. Civilian populations in the region are kept deliberately helpless against them. Frenzy is a random force, easily directed by a strong personality...turn the barbarians against him. 4) A gargantuan yeti who wanders a desolate winter wasteland. Small pockets of human tribes live in geothermally-heated caves in this realm. Standard big-dumb-monster tactics apply. Dig a pit trap, poke it with arrows from ambush... 5) An insane torturer in a well-guarded citadel, who keeps his victims alive via magic for centuries. Hmmm...free a victim or three, and they'll likely help you kill him.
pollux_crimson 02-06-04, 03:01 PM	I'm deliberately leaving out details, since I'm never sure if my players read this board, and I don't want to ruin things for them. However, some notes: The first assumption in all of these areas are that the players are the *only* non-evil beings with any power. All humans are, unless otherwise noted, considered to be 1st level, while the BBEGs are epic or near-epic. (In other words, rediculously overpowered for the environment. I did say this was ravenloft-like...) 1) Lich King - we're look at 2000 1st level humans vs. probably 100,000 undead. Human revolt is not an option - the only reason the humans wouldn't be slaughtered is that the undead need them to breed and eventually die to become more undead. And, other than a really high-level cleric (which the party doesn't have), what "weaknesses" does a lich have? If you can't get to it's phylactery, you can't even kill it permanently. 2) Anti-magic field/ dispel magic might just end up bringing down the curtain, or be seen as part of the show. It's easily countered, especially by an illusionist. People thought Roy being mauled by a tiger was an act, after all. Epic illusions against 1st-level people won't be easily seen through, either... 3) Turning the barbarians against the warlord isn't easy when they are all competing for his favor... it's only the peasants who are constantly mauled, and they're never strong enough to fight the barbarians on their own. This won't be solved by a simple diplomacy skill check... 4) Big, dumb monster traps don't work against intelligent opponents. The Yeti is highly intelligent. (My apologies for failing to mention it earlier. I'm deliberately keeping the information somewhat vague.) Also, all cave-dwellers are 1st level. He'd eat them alive, literally. A garantuan yeti is also, what, 30' tall? You'd need to dig a 70' deep pit to trap it. 5) The victims have all been tortured for decades. They're all quite insane by this point. Even if they found some "fresh" victims, they're 1st level, and so unlikely to be much help.
Autosponge 02-06-04, 05:42 PM	Ok so you want absolutely no realism in your campaign. Sorry, I can't comment on that style of play--I don't subscribe to it nor do I put up with it when I'm a player. Good luck though.
king_of_evil007 02-06-04, 09:05 PM	One question - how did these BBEG's become real powerful? Unlike in many console or PC RPGs, sniping rats from a tree for hours doesn't yield any much XP after the first few levels. Unless the BBEGs are just omnipotent guys who were like gods since the beginning of time, they must have leveled up somehow. Did they kill everybody over level one? How did the PCs level up? Did they snipe rats from a tree? They must have fought something. So if they can grow in level, so can these "level 1 only" citizens. If you design the world so the PCs and BBEGs are the only ones with power, the whole relative realism of the world (relative with the idea of magic and such) goes kaput. 1) A lich king in an underground city of the dead. A very small community of humans (2000 - just enough for breeding variety purposes) is used to continually swell the ranks of the undead. 2000 angry humans can wreak havoc, even if they are outnumbered and screwed from the beginning. If the PCs lead them away from this underground city (not necessarily all the way) then the PCs can come from behind and hit this lich, who wouldn't bother to defend his rear. Story weakness? If the Lich sees a picture of his old self (he was once a noble guy) he realizes what he's done, releases the humans, and turns against the other Dark Lords. 2) An illusionist who runs a theater. The plays and magic shows use audiance participants placed in deadly positions. Illusions and glamers are used to mask the fact that the audiance members are actually killed, and replaced by dopplegangers during the show. Antimagic Field would cause lots of problems, then the PCs can come and "steal the show". You can't easily counter an Antimagic Field once it's in place. Story weakness? EIther he can't stand to see a better illusion than his or he can't injure excellent actors/dancers/musicians. 3) A warlord in a massive castle who keeps whipping surrounding tribes of barbarians into a constant frenzy of war. Civilian populations in the region are kept deliberately helpless against them. Hmm. . . whip the barbarians against him. Just get a bigger barbarian with a bigger axe. Yell once or twice, then lead the charge. Story weakness? The guy is terrified of small people. He sees a small guy, screams and wets himself and loses all of his coolness, barbarians turn against him, yada yada yada. 4) A gargantuan yeti who wanders a desolate winter wasteland. Small pockets of human tribes live in geothermally-heated caves in this realm. Uhh. . . same thing as liches. Lead guerrilla strikes against the camps, wipe them all out (or free them, if the PCs can). Destroy the wasteland (gargantuan creatures usually aren't too fast, and even if they are, let's hope the PCs can fly or teleport). Starve said creature. If you want a story weakness. . . then let's say all this giant wants to see (subconsciously) are mountains and plains. PCs throw up an illusion and the creature stares at it, oblivious to the fighter hacking him in the neck. 5) An insane torturer in a well-guarded citadel, who keeps his victims alive via magic for centuries. Just have the PCs sneak into this citadel, and attack him. Story weakness? He's terrified of being tortured himself.
Linthar 02-06-04, 09:35 PM	Originally posted by pollux_crimson 2) An illusionist who runs a theater. The plays and magic shows use audiance participants placed in deadly positions. Illusions and glamers are used to mask the fact that the audiance members are actually killed, and replaced by dopplegangers during the show. Don't have any ideas for the others but this one strikes my head. Maybe he wasn't evil once but had a horrible accident that disfigured him, and he went to illusions to cover his appearance. Why he went down the path of darkness you could decide better but if you use this approch he may be afraid of mirrors, to seeing his true appearance depending on how mean you want to be. Nasty thought just crossed my mind, if he's afraid of mirrors your players are going to assume that he's a vampire and load up on anti vampire stuff when they go to confront him, to find out he's quite alive.
trentiane 02-06-04, 11:11 PM	2) An illusionist who runs a theater. The plays and magic shows use audiance participants placed in deadly positions. Illusions and glamers are used to mask the fact that the audiance members are actually killed, and replaced by dopplegangers during the show. Hmm...adding to what Linther said, how about portraying the illusionist archvillain as a tragic Phantom of the Opera type character? He knows of a series of secret passages and corridors which connect the theater to an underground hideout. He is infatuated with a beautiful singer (who he hasn't converted to a doppleganger yet) and teaches her how to sing in order to become a star. People that this girl dislikes mysteriously disappear. The girl is completely oblivious to who her mysterious benefactor really is. Players can exploit his obsession for this girl. - Good luck.
BRJN 02-06-04, 11:33 PM	Originally posted by pollux_crimson 1) A lich king in an underground city of the dead. A very small community of humans (2000 - just enough for breeding variety purposes) is used to continually swell the ranks of the undead. Liches have their own weaknesses (with which I am not very familiar) such as needing a phylactery. For this guy, another weakness would be that, you can only control so many undead. The extras could be usurped by another master. And of course, the living will hate, fear, and resent the lich. Somebody with a supply of +1 Swords, +3 vs undead to give away could really put a crimp in his day. 2) An illusionist who runs a theater. The plays and magic shows use audiance participants placed in deadly positions. Illusions and glamers are used to mask the fact that the audiance members are actually killed, and replaced by dopplegangers during the show. Read the book or get the musical's soundtrack: The Phantom of the Opera. :cool: 3) A warlord in a massive castle who keeps whipping surrounding tribes of barbarians into a constant frenzy of war. Civilian populations in the region are kept deliberately helpless against them. The villian may enjoy the sight of bloodshed from time to time and so come out of his castle to watch a village get The Treatment. He will be vulnerable compared to when he stays in the castle; a Magic Missile does not miss. Or the civilians could be taught jujitsu (or something) by a group of outsiders, who are actually organizing a rebellion with an elf-life time scale. What does the warlord do if his pet barbarians are too busy fighting their other neighbors to trash his civilians? 4) A gargantuan yeti who wanders a desolate winter wasteland. Small pockets of human tribes live in geothermally-heated caves in this realm. The PCs can teach the innate sorcerers in the region Fireball. ;) Or see the climate spell I sketch out in my thread 'The Elven King must be stopped!' for another idea. Once the yeti was an elf (ala Beauty and the Beast). Then he ticked off a powerful illusionist. He dimly remembers that time and seeks to be changed back. 5) An insane torturer in a well-guarded citadel, who keeps his victims alive via magic for centuries. Dwarves are supposed to be magic-resistant. This might screw up his spells, or exhaust him trying to make them keep working. Other races, an individual could be sent out to get captured, who was himself enspelled to cause havoc when tortured. (Sort of like magical suicide bombers, only in a good cause.)
Bromabaz Silvertwister 02-07-04, 01:01 AM	1. He has to convert at least one human a week in order to survive. Stop the ceramony, kill the lich. 2. Wears a phantom of the opera mask, break the mask, he melts like the wicked witch of the west. 3. Since they are going for his favor, whip them all up and have them kill each other off. 4. The yeti is trying to find his cat Mr. Wiggley. 5. Tell the Yeti the lord has Mr. Wiggley.
jkovacik 02-07-04, 09:18 AM	There are some excellent ideas here. Thanks, all. :) For those of you that are worried about realism, allow me to fill in a few blanks. I mentioned in the first post that these are Ravenloft-like lords. While I'm not running a session in Ravenloft, there are several parallels. These lords are trapped in their realms (although in this case, willingly). The realms are self-contained demiplanes, so no neighbors to worry about. The lords are immortal, and have been around for a long, long time. The PCs are coming from another location entirely, and are 17-20th level. If it's too hard to imagine all 1st levels, assume that everyone in the realm other than the BBEG and their minions are under 8th level except for a couple of exceptional people. (In other words, people may have some experience, but it won't be enough to help.) Also, I don't want anything that would kill the BBEGs outright without a fight - I'm more looking for triggers that the players can use to render the villains vulnerable (assume that the nature of the realms gives them AC 70 and SR 50 as long as they are "in control", and certain events, items, or triggers will shake their confidence, and render them vulnerable). Thanks to you, I've now got firm ideas for the illusionist, the warlord, and the yeti (#2, #3, #4). I still need some ideas for the lich and the torturer. (Since the PCs are good, "magical suicide bombers" are not an option.) Thanks for all your help so far! (edit: so much for posting under an assumed name to make it harder for my players to find this post... *smacks forehead*)
BRJN 02-13-04, 10:45 PM	For the lich, how about a background like that of Hamlet? Two generations ago the king ruled. He was a magic-dabbler, trying to find spells to make him live longer. As he grew older, he became besotted with the fear of death. He researched deep secrets usually known only by the gods (or Dr. Frankenstein). His findings were kept a deep dark secret, hidden away in a laboratory-dungeon beneath his castle. The old king had at least two sons. The second son was ambitious and selfish; the first rather arrogant and seemingly blind to the notion that other people could be a danger to him. More fool he. When the old king died - maybe he was actually killed, given what happened next - the eldest son assumed the throne. He had married earlier and had a small child, his heir. He arranged a marriage for his brother and the brother soon had an heir. The second brother shortly killed his older brother in such a manner that the child seemed also to have died (like The Lion King but invent another trap). So the second son assumed the throne. His own son and heir, recognizing the future threat to himself that his murderer-father represented, looked for a way to protect himself. Seeking a physical hiding place, the heir found the old king's lab. He secretly researched the materials therein. After not a very long time, the usurper-king and his son - a young man by now - had a falling-out. The son used death magic to kill his father, who was threatening to stab him with a poleaxe, and pretending that it was a game. The son, now king, put the formidable resources of the realm into his personal passion for magical power. Building on the secrets from the old lab, he and his wizard-servants discovered the way to become a lich and 'live' forever. Although not yet old, he used it. The people of the realm were by now disgusted with the ruling family and tried to revolt. Most were slain and the lich-king created the realm as the PCs will come to know it, to prevent any more threats to his personal position. Unknown to everybody, the true heir had not been killed in the trap that killed his father. He had been hidden away by some kind souls among the simple folk. While in their care, he had a spiritual encounter with Good. He now is something like Mohatmas Gandhi. He will lead whatever revolt can be generated against the lich-king. Indeed, his nonviolent philosophy of social change will, when put into practice, severely weaken the lich because much of the lich's power flows from death.