BBEGs and Artifacts [Archive] - Wizards Community

BBEGs and Artifacts [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
allenchan
06-14-07, 06:32 PM Just curious, how do you (as fellow DMs) adjudicate the power level of your BBEGs if they have a powerful artifact in their control? Do you increase their CR, or treat it the same as favorable terrain (like red dragons fighting in lava pits)?
cypherx
06-14-07, 08:45 PM i think if the characters are at the level where artifacts come into play, and they chase down a mad frothing BBEG with an artifact in hand on his own ground,

they sure as hell better be able to kill him. or they're dead.
:fight!::duel: :mrt: :ghosted:

on on a serious note, make your BBEG as strong as you can with no punches held. the characters will do their best to take him or remember that this isn't worth dying for. Frequently, you find the characters are more creative than you thought.
:ghosted:
Dragonchild
06-14-07, 09:03 PM If you're going to involve artifacts, I wouldn't be so methodical about it. A BBEG with an artifact should be fought in a climactic point of the campaign, where a major portion of the experience should come from the quest itself.

I really don't deal with CR's, as there's more to my campaigns than just killing stuff (though there's plenty of that). But either way, because the power (and resolution) of an artifact is sometimes hard to quantify, its influence should be included in the quest's XP, not the BBEG's CR.
ein9
06-14-07, 10:20 PM Its called Deus Ex Macina. Learn to love it.

I dont really use artifacts in direct combat with the PCs, instead only giving vague descriptions of their power and showcasing that power, usually melting mountains or dominating entire friendly armies. Make the PC's feel totally helpless against it.

It will lead to even more fun when they finally overcome the BBEG.

Do you mind if i ask what type of artifact is this?
allenchan
06-14-07, 10:44 PM Its called Deus Ex Macina. Learn to love it.

I dont really use artifacts in direct combat with the PCs, instead only giving vague descriptions of their power and showcasing that power, usually melting mountains or dominating entire friendly armies. Make the PC's feel totally helpless against it.

Those are more along the lines of "eldritch machines" etc, that don't actually have game statistics and are more along the lines of plot devices.

Do you mind if i ask what type of artifact is this?

In this specific case, the Crown of Horns (Magic of Faerun). So if you wouldnt increase CR solely because of an artifact (any artifact), what about due to the fact that the artifact gives the BBEG a template (in this case, Lich).
ein9
06-14-07, 11:03 PM Ohhhhh ok.

Well, the lich from the MM adds 2 to the CR rating of a monster. If the crown adds additional powers, increase it by +1 or +2 for each power, depending on its effectiveness.

Thats what I would do.
TheAnthroDM
06-14-07, 11:42 PM My PCs are often faced against a BBEG wielding an artifact, the best thing to do is make sure there is a way that the BBEG can be disarmed of the powerful devise, or that it can be use against him.

Example:

Crazed Psionic Warlock(Very easy transitional class) wielding the annulus, our Psychic Warrior got him in a grapple and used the Annulus to destroy the BBEG(Unfortunately the BBEG used it to destroy him to)

Oh and if there are any questions about why it didn't take 10 rounds... Action Points.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
allenchan 06-14-07, 06:32 PM	Just curious, how do you (as fellow DMs) adjudicate the power level of your BBEGs if they have a powerful artifact in their control? Do you increase their CR, or treat it the same as favorable terrain (like red dragons fighting in lava pits)?
cypherx 06-14-07, 08:45 PM	i think if the characters are at the level where artifacts come into play, and they chase down a mad frothing BBEG with an artifact in hand on his own ground, they sure as hell better be able to kill him. or they're dead. :fight!::duel: :mrt: :ghosted: on on a serious note, make your BBEG as strong as you can with no punches held. the characters will do their best to take him or remember that this isn't worth dying for. Frequently, you find the characters are more creative than you thought. :ghosted:
Dragonchild 06-14-07, 09:03 PM	If you're going to involve artifacts, I wouldn't be so methodical about it. A BBEG with an artifact should be fought in a climactic point of the campaign, where a major portion of the experience should come from the quest itself. I really don't deal with CR's, as there's more to my campaigns than just killing stuff (though there's plenty of that). But either way, because the power (and resolution) of an artifact is sometimes hard to quantify, its influence should be included in the quest's XP, not the BBEG's CR.
ein9 06-14-07, 10:20 PM	Its called Deus Ex Macina. Learn to love it. I dont really use artifacts in direct combat with the PCs, instead only giving vague descriptions of their power and showcasing that power, usually melting mountains or dominating entire friendly armies. Make the PC's feel totally helpless against it. It will lead to even more fun when they finally overcome the BBEG. Do you mind if i ask what type of artifact is this?
allenchan 06-14-07, 10:44 PM	Its called Deus Ex Macina. Learn to love it. I dont really use artifacts in direct combat with the PCs, instead only giving vague descriptions of their power and showcasing that power, usually melting mountains or dominating entire friendly armies. Make the PC's feel totally helpless against it. Those are more along the lines of "eldritch machines" etc, that don't actually have game statistics and are more along the lines of plot devices. Do you mind if i ask what type of artifact is this? In this specific case, the Crown of Horns (Magic of Faerun). So if you wouldnt increase CR solely because of an artifact (any artifact), what about due to the fact that the artifact gives the BBEG a template (in this case, Lich).
ein9 06-14-07, 11:03 PM	Ohhhhh ok. Well, the lich from the MM adds 2 to the CR rating of a monster. If the crown adds additional powers, increase it by +1 or +2 for each power, depending on its effectiveness. Thats what I would do.
TheAnthroDM 06-14-07, 11:42 PM	My PCs are often faced against a BBEG wielding an artifact, the best thing to do is make sure there is a way that the BBEG can be disarmed of the powerful devise, or that it can be use against him. Example: Crazed Psionic Warlock(Very easy transitional class) wielding the annulus, our Psychic Warrior got him in a grapple and used the Annulus to destroy the BBEG(Unfortunately the BBEG used it to destroy him to) Oh and if there are any questions about why it didn't take 10 rounds... Action Points.