Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thomar_of_Uointer 02-17-04, 06:04 PM	I think that way too many of the BBEGs in campaigns are mages or clerics. What happened to the maniacal tyrant waving a sword? This leads people to not be afraid of fighters. "You see 5 mages" is a LOT more scary to players than "you see 5 fighters". It's a carry-over from 2nd edition, when fighters were weaker than mages at higher levels. Now, because of great cleave, fighters can take on as many people as a mage can. Also, any self-respecting high-level evil fighter would have maxed ranks in use magic item and as many wands, scrolls, and potions as he could get his hands on!
Bone-Prince 02-17-04, 06:17 PM	1) Fighters cant use Use Magic Device. 2) Rogues can make realy good BBEG when he is haunting down the PCs for sport. 3) So are Rangers.
primemover003 02-17-04, 06:22 PM	No skill is exclusive anymore. Fighters can have UMD:)
Bone-Prince 02-17-04, 06:22 PM	I hate 3.5.
Not a monkey 02-17-04, 06:24 PM	Who needs magic when bards can get minions the old fashioned way - propaganda?!?! :D You know, a rousing speech from a town square fountain or a balcony, get the masses all riled up kind of thing. Or per Hamlet, "the play's the thing" to put all sorts of ideas into people's heads. And just because someone may be a cleric or a sorceror, doesn't necessarily mean they're using magic to gain power. Rasputin, anyone?
primemover003 02-17-04, 06:25 PM	I'm a 3.25 adherent myself, but I think that was a good change. Fighters should be able to use any weapon available to them, even spell trigger items.
Bone-Prince 02-17-04, 06:28 PM	When did Fighters get the know how to use a scroll or a Wand?
primemover003 02-17-04, 06:35 PM	When thay took ranks in UMD... what do you think that represents? They learned a skill (and an expensive one at that).
Bone-Prince 02-17-04, 06:37 PM	If I had that rule, I would keep it so there must be a wizard, barb, sorc or rogue to teach the character. Its giving the power of magic to a guy with sword-chucks.
DarkThoughts24 02-17-04, 07:13 PM	fighters can command armies, cleave thru minions improve criticals spring attack in past the frontline and slash the pcs spellcaster. fighters can be great bbeg especially if equipped properly and forget use magic device think improved sunder, the old improved sunder which helped get thru hardness (now i dub it superior sunder) the tactical feat that alows you to cleave with sunder. destroy all the pcs toys and lock them in the dungeon. only flaw is that one vow of poverty monk.
Snommelp 02-17-04, 07:21 PM	Here's what you do: set up a whole lot of lesser "boss" type peoples who are all mages. When the party finally meets up with their boss, he's a fighter. The party will think "no problem" and charge right in. However, they don't realize that he has been preparing for this battle, and half of the battleground is in a dead magic zone (Half so that the party mages won't feel completely useless). Since they aren't threatened by the fighter, they're likely to make stupid mistakes and have a tough fight.
DarkThoughts24 02-17-04, 08:22 PM	lots of pcs tend to keep their items as crutches two of the best dms i've played under, almost every campaign left us naked, ill-equiped possibly cursed and requiring our wits to get ourselves out of danger.the anti magic field/magic deadzone isnt a bad idea, but screams of deus ex. litterally you could have ring of spell resistance and not have it seem so contrived. i say look thru find many good feat combos. quick draw mercurial strike, the sunder stuff you can literally fake a surrender and then find most of the characters weapons slaughted before battle begins
PaladinSix 02-17-04, 08:48 PM	Sunder is good; disarm is even better, especially when facing a bunch of magic-sword dependent PC fighters. Throw in a ring of spell turning or some spell resistance and even a tough party will have problems.
Nifft 02-17-04, 08:50 PM	This guy is a fighter all the way, and his tactics are to kill spellcasters (especially mages) first. He's in charge of a very evil extra-planar mercenary company. Khrel-Hadad, Jukhim ("Advanced") Nycaloth Fighter 4 Huge Outsider (Evil) HD 25d8+4d10+232 (366 hp) Init: +3 Speed: 40 ft., fly 90 ft. (good) AC: 25 (-2 size, +3 dex, +9 natural, +5 deflection), Touch 16, Flat 23 BAB/Grapple: +25/+41 Attack: Claw +39 (2d6+15 19/x2 +2d6 Unholy +1 Vile Con) Full Attack: Claw +39/+34/+34/+34 (2d6+15 19/x2 +2d6 Unholy +1 Vile Con) Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft. SA: Spell-like abilities, improved grab, rake +34/+34 (2d6+15 19/x2 +2d6 Unholy +1 Vile Con), vile wounding, summon yugoloth SQ: DR 10/good, SR 38, cold immunity, yugoloth qualities (acid immunity, fire resistance 10) Saves: Fort +27, Ref +22, Will +20 Abil: Str 30, Dex 16, Con 26, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 16 Skills: Bluff 23, Concentration 28, Diplomacy 23, Hide 15, Intimidate 23, Kn(Arcana) 23, Kn(Planes) 23, Kn(Geography) 23, Listen 21, Move Silently 23, Search 23, Sense Motive 21, Spellcraft 25, Spot 21, Survival 21, Languages: Infernal, Abyssal, Goblin, Ignan, Auran, Draconic-A Feats: Flyby Attack, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Natural Attack (Claw), Weapon Focus (Claw), Vile Natural Attack (Claw), Snatch, Combat Reflexes, Weapon Specialization (Claw), Improved Critical (Claw) Equipment: Potions (Gaseous Form, Mage Armor x5), Ring of Djinn Calling (Balithelina), Ring of Pazuzu's Legion, Cloak of Displacement (Major), Dimensional Shackles x2, Glacial Blight Skull Torc, Bag of Holding Type II CR 24 Ring of Pazuzu's Legion: This minor artifact grants a +5 Resistance bonus to saving throws, +5 Deflection bonus to AC, and continual Freedom of Movement. Additionally, the wearer may Plane Shift to Carceri 3/day. Very Strong Conjuration; CL 20, Contageon save DC 25. Glacial Blight Skull Torc: This "amulet" is the sentient skull of a long-dead Winterwight. It grants Khrel-Hadad a +3 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls (as an Amulet of Mighty Fists), as well as imbuing his natural attacks with the Unholy and Ghost Touch special abilities. It also makes him immune to cold damage. It must be fully immersed in mortal blood once every 30 days, or it temporarily loses its potency. Glacial Blight: Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 16, 10 ranks in Bluff, can cast Bless 3/day (ironically enough), Ego 16, AL CE Very Strong Necromancy; CL 20. Improved Grab (Ex): Whenever Khrel-Hadad makes a successful claw attack, he automatically initiates a grapple as a free action. Vile Wounding (Su): In addition to normal damage, with each successful claw attack Khrel-Hadad deals one point of Con damage. This damage is Vile, and can only be healed magically on hallowed ground. Rake (Ex): When Khrel-Hadad begins his action grappling an opponent, he gains an extra 2 Rake attacks, at the indicated bonus, which deal the indicated damage. Spell-Like Abilities: At will: Damning Darkness (BoVD), Desecrate, Fear, Invisibility, Mirror Image, See Invisibility, Greater Teleport (self +50 lbs. only). Caster level 25, save DC 13 + spell level. Khrel-Hadad owns a Ring of Djinn Calling, keyed to a kind-hearted Djinn named Balithelina. She offered herself in service to spare a Auran city from his legion's depredation, not imagining the nature of her service would be permanent. It has been a decade since her enslavement. Khrel-Hadad enjoys making her torture his captives. She's a bitter spirit who would jump at the chance to escape him, even through death. Khrel-Hadad's current mercenary company: 30 Canoloths 14 Mezzoloths 6 Nycaloths 1 Ultroloth (Uxuiral-Majif) Contents of Bag of Holding (Type II): 27,000 gp in Gems (mostly fire opals) 42,500 gp in Greensteel Coins (425 coins) 721 larval souls 1 MW alchemical silver huge greataxe 1 MW cold iron huge greataxe 1 MW adamantine huge greataxe -- N
Nifft 02-17-04, 08:54 PM	For more humanoid foes, consider: - TWF Ranger with a pair of Wounding Kukri - Rogue/Shadowdancer with Spring Attack - A Balor... oops. -- N
DarkThoughts24 02-17-04, 08:56 PM	disarm is very good, but if you deal with pcs who get attached to items sunder can and sometimes does make them cry. especially if the weapon was intelligent. its like slughtering the favorite useful npc. gives everyone that "omg he killed aeris" feeling they got from ff7.
LordMacbeth 02-17-04, 08:56 PM	I would love to say that I use Fighters, but I don't. I guess I'm a lemming like everyone else. Don't knock wizards though. They can be great when they are used well, I find they are better alone than fighters and even better when given time to prepare. Fighters are better when used as captains of a few units, IMHO. I still find they lose power at about lvl.7, when mages get a few lvl 3 spells.
DarkThoughts24 02-17-04, 09:03 PM	bbeg in one adventure i am running is an infernal in the other there are three bbeg on a sorc, one a fighter and the last is a drunken gnome with iaijatsu focus
Edymnion 02-17-04, 10:02 PM	My favorite BBEG is a... NOBLE! Yes, not a class that can fight at all. My favorite BBEG is the rich baron or viceroy, someone with political clout that cannot be fought mano-e-mano, but has all of the money and resources he needs to hire assassins, put bounties on the party's heads for "collateral damage", or any other number of nasty things. For a good example, look at old Wormtongue from Lord of the Rings. He wasn't somebody you could just walk up to and beat the snot out of without having all of Rohan hunting you down. How did they beat him? They broke the spell on Denethor, the king, and had HIM kick the bum out. Thats the best kind of BBEG, IMO. :D
VirgilCaine 02-17-04, 10:05 PM	Rasputin, anyone? Poisoned, shot, stabbed, chained up and put in a bag, thrown in a RUSSIAN RIVER (i.e. COLD) and his body was found... ...unbound, on the shore. That's a high-level character.
Phist 02-17-04, 10:11 PM	I had a really REALLY evil BBEG who was a blackguard. The spellcasters were a bit shocked when he started hacking them up with his +3 bastard sword. And this was a third level adventure.:smirk:
BlaineTog 02-17-04, 10:17 PM	You want to see a non-caster that will send your casters to hell in a handbasket? Try out my Nonmagical (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2564355#post2564355) PrC. :D Seriously, Fighter just don't make terrifying BBEG (usually) since they basically hit stuff. That's just not scary. The PCs have had stuff try to hit them for levels upon levels. Their first battle? Probably orcs of kobolds hitting them with axes. It's old hat. Mages are generally more terrifying because their methods don't have to be relativelly strightforward. They can dominate your beloved meat shield and suddenly, you have the BBEG and what amonts to a Fighter BBEG who you dan't want to kill. And there's also the matter that Fighters are weaker than mages at high levels. So here's how to put the fear of (IIRC) 11 bonus feats back into the PCS: Make your fighter BBEG a fully-twinked-out Poisoned-Chain-spiked-weilding, Leadership-milking, tripper. Give him some UMD ranks (or a level in cleric/sorcerer) to surpirse the PCs. :devil:
Thomar_of_Uointer 02-17-04, 10:41 PM	Wow, lots of posts. Okay, how about a BBEG who has about 100 immovable rods. He grapples the first person he sees, puts a few immovable rods around a key body part (neck, arm, etc), activates them, and walks away?
The Master Weaver Is Warped 02-17-04, 10:50 PM	Originally posted by Thomar of Uointer Wow, lots of posts. Okay, how about a BBEG who has about 100 immovable rods. He grapples the first person he sees, puts a few immovable rods around a key body part (neck, arm, etc), activates them, and walks away? Wow, That's good or is it bad?
Riznar 02-17-04, 10:57 PM	I've found that in a evil campaign, paladins make excellent BBGG's. Especially if you make them charisma based and make them sunder happy. Just remember that you gave them boots of speed and a shield of arrow deflection. EDIT: I'll second that bards make really good BBEGs. They can do anything.
LordMacbeth 02-17-04, 11:20 PM	Alignment isn't my favorite part of the D&D system. even so, Paladins can make great vilans regardless. They don't even need to be fallen paladins, you don't even need an evil party. Human slaying Elves cold be paladins, maybe there exists an ancient genocidal hatred between the races in your campaign. "Evil" paladins might not be legal under a narrow interpratation of the alignment rules, but divergant interpretations makes for great roleplaying. Besides, it would be a great way to mess with your players. ^_^
Mock26 02-17-04, 11:56 PM	My favorite BBEG, whom I put into one of my campaigns, was a 12-year old rogue (level 6 at the time the campaign started, and level 8 and 14 years old when the group found him, and they were level 15+) who was born with a super high intelligence (24). Well, this super evil super genius ran everything from behind the scenes. The group, on about 5 different occasions, thought they had taken out the BBEG, only to discover they were dealing with a "puppet on a string." When they finally found him, it was in a castle, in the throne room, and the "BBEG" was a high level mage sitting upon the throne. Well, someone in the group just happens to state they are looking up at a balcony in one corner, and the true BBEG rolled a crit failure on his hiding in shadow, and the group spotted him. Since they had seen him hanging around some of the taverns in town begging for money, they quickly figured out who he was, and given the level difference, they caught and subdued him quite quickly, once they fought their way through the BBEH (Big Bad Evil Henchmen). IT was quite an anticlimatic ending to that part of the campaign, but they loved it! ciao, john. :b:
PaladinSix 02-18-04, 02:38 AM	BlaineTog, I like that Nonmagical PrC you came up with. It does seem a little overpowered to me, especially the Conditioning special ability, but the idea is outstanding. Should cause no end of problems, even for a high-level party.
BlaineTog 02-18-04, 02:45 AM	Originally posted by Mock26 Well, someone in the group just happens to state they are looking up at a balcony in one corner, and the true BBEG rolled a crit failure on his hiding in shadow, and the group spotted him.For Future Reference, you can't "Critically fail" skill checks. I've found that in a evil campaign, paladins make excellent BBGG's. Especially if you make them charisma based and make them sunder happy. Just remember that you gave them boots of speed and a shield of arrow deflection. EDIT: I'll second that bards make really good BBEGs. They can do anything.Oh yes. Highly deluded Paladins work wonders, even against Good/Neutral parties (although you COULD always just have a pally/blackgaurd). And bard BBEG are just scary, especially in their full-Leadership-glory. Dozens of 1st level Barbarians/fighters (all being buffed with Inspire Courage) is truly a force to be reconed with, especially if the Bard's cohort is a wizard who specializes in Dispelling :devil:. BlaineTog, I like that Nonmagical PrC you came up with. It does seem a little overpowered to me, especially the Conditioning special ability, but the idea is outstanding. Should cause no end of problems, even for a high-level party. Thank you. Conditioning isn't really all that powerful since the PC could otherwise just buy some stat-boosting-items that do the same thing for a relatively cheap price. It also makes them better BBEG since you don't end up giving all their uberexpensive stuff to the PCs (since they probably don't have any).
Alegron Blackwell 02-18-04, 09:32 AM	I always thought a half fiend fighter/blackguard is the way to go. The Half fiend template gives immunities some good spell like abilities, immunities and element resistance. They also have magic resistance and flight, which is good for escaping and coming back to plague your pcs. The fighter aspects will give it a good amount of feats and hit dice as well as combat ability. The blackguard gets cleric spells for buffs, summoning minions, and healing. Also some command undead ability. They also have an aura of dispair and dark blessing, which helps with the saves. Get some boots of speed and some other items and he can be a pain for your pcs. I also use a standard where I give the BBEG money and equipment equivelent to pc at his level..instead of the Npc amount.:b:
Woas 02-18-04, 11:34 AM	Originally posted by primemover003 No skill is exclusive anymore. Fighters can have UMD:) Wait..... Really? So anyone can take say.. Lockpick or Tumble or Spellcraft or something just at Cross Class progression? See, I've always though that you could only put points into cross-classed skills that can be used untrained... I feel embrassed not knowing this... :embarrass
meabolex 02-18-04, 11:45 AM	A truly evil character is one that turns the party against itself. This is probably the most horrible villain, because the party loses control of their characters. An evil bard with some toughs as bodyguards makes for a nasty final encounter. Have the bard simply use mass suggestion/song of discord/dominate person/confusion until the party is going nuts. The toughs are to soak up some damage until the group's melee fighters are under your control. Even if you aren't that high of a level, a well-used charm person can spell potential doom for a party. EDIT: I guess the bard *does* count as a caster (: But the bard does work better with a fighter BBEG.
lantzer 02-18-04, 12:04 PM	Parties _hate_ fighting high-level barbarian/rogues. Reasonably good saves, excellent self-defense potential, and it will take a little while to drop them. Especially if, like all BBEGs, he has guards. And Monks. Monks make great LE BBEGs.
Twisted Puppy 02-18-04, 01:45 PM	TheMasterWeaverisWarped will certainly be able to tell you how very nasty one of my villains is: an Erinyes Devil, with 6 levels of Ranger and 6 levels of Mortal Hunter. Not very hard to hit, but the Spell Resistance is enough to defeat MOST of the wands the party carries. The nasty thing about her is she's tough to SEE. Excellent Hide skill, plus move silently, and teleport at will - vicious.
The Master Weaver Is Warped 02-18-04, 01:55 PM	Originally posted by Twisted Puppy TheMasterWeaverisWarped will certainly be able to tell you how very nasty one of my villains is: an Erinyes Devil, with 6 levels of Ranger and 6 levels of Mortal Hunter. Not very hard to hit, but the Spell Resistance is enough to defeat MOST of the wands the party carries. The nasty thing about her is she's tough to SEE. Excellent Hide skill, plus move silently, and teleport at will - vicious. I hate that winged :censored:. Fade's spot is +26 and he has to track her down from the tragectory of arrows she plugs into his human friends. To add insult to injury, she always leaves before he can take her out. :headexplo One of his biggest pet peeves. Bloody annoying. I say again, I hate that winged :censored:.
Lord T Hawkeye 02-18-04, 04:33 PM	Lots of the villains of my campaign are warriors. One of my faves is Naberus. A lv.6 narzugon warrior of darkness currently. Last time he fought the PC's, he was riding a black dragon. Wish I had a picture of that scene. ^^
Xeviat-DM 02-18-04, 04:49 PM	The BBEG in the campaign I'm currently running is a supergenious Werewolf Barbarian. He had been on his own little quest to obtain two artifacts from around the world. He got one of them, and ended up "letting" it fall into the hands of the PC. In their quest to determine what it was, they obtained the second artifact, and he muscled it from them. Because the party is warrior heavy (the two spellcasters are only partial spellcasters, in a 13th level party there's someone who casts as an 8th level sorcerer and someone who casts as an 8th level druid). So non-casters are quite fun.
Mock26 02-18-04, 04:52 PM	Blaine Tog, I still play 2nd edtion, and when rolling thief skills (d%), any roll of 00 is a critical failure by my house rules. Well, I rolled a 00, and the thief was quite obvious in his failure to hide! ciao, john. PS Please, no one comment on my use of 2nd edition. I've played both, and 2e works best for me and my campaign.
Thomar_of_Uointer 02-19-04, 11:49 AM	The Eldritch Staff This is a normal-looking staff, that can be made of any material, although steel is the most common. It can only be used by Eldritch Knights, or anyone who succeeds at a Use Magic Device check to emulate that. It automatically recharges itself by 1 charge each hour, to a maximum of 5 charges. It can be activated for the following: Mage armor (1 charge) Shield (1 charge) Cat's grace (1 charge) Bull's strength (1 charge) Mirror image (1 charge) Resistance (1 charge) Expeditious retreat (1 charge) Phase door (2 charges) Blur (2 charges) Tenser's Transformation (3 charges) Fireball (3 charges) Any holder who has activated the staff at least once will always have a +2 bonus to attack rolls whenever it is on his/her person. My PCs are going to hate me... :angel:
Nived 02-19-04, 12:03 PM	I agree with lantzer Monks can be awesome BBEGs. Especially if they are trained in the art of OldMan-Fu. Few things are as embarrasing to the PCs as being beaten half to dead by a little old man.