Beating Traps. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Beating Traps. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Raumz
05-15-07, 10:57 PM Hi. Well in my last session my players went into a dungeon and the first things they encountered were 3 dwarves who were evil and so on. So they killed these dwarves. Then later they found a door that is trapped with a arrow slit (I dont know if I should just tell my player the door is trapped or what it is trapped with and where, most liekly the former but they are new so I told them how it wa trapped and where). So they wanted to open the door and duck to dodge the arrows. But then one of them had an idea. They ran back and dragged a dwarf over and heafted it up so its blocking hte arrow slits.
I wouldl ike to know how should I have ruled this? Do I say the trap is negated or just give the person opening the door a bonus to AC or the person holding the dwarf a bonus to AC? Also how would this work for future traps, such as hail of needles, scythe blade, lightning blast ext.?
Thanks for oyur time.
temparus2000
05-15-07, 11:57 PM I'd say the arrow slit is effectively disarmed, unless you rule that the force of the arrow might be strong enough to penetrate the dead dwarf completely.
Kraleck
05-16-07, 07:31 AM Remember, corpses make for heavy soft cover that will eventually fall apart from the damage it is taking. Even if it works, it won't for very long nor will it be light. If anybody is a dwarf or other dwarven subrace the latter point is not an issue.
northern_bear
05-16-07, 07:42 AM Then later they found a door that is trapped with a arrow slit (I dont know if I should just tell my player the door is trapped or what it is trapped with and where, most liekly the former but they are new so I told them how it wa trapped and where).

Did they check the door to see if it was trapped, or did you just tell them it was trapped?

If they didn't bother checking the door, then they shouldn't even know that it is trapped at all, let alone how it is trapped.

But if the searched the door, and succeeded on their search check, they realise it is trapped. And it should be pretty obvious how it is trapped. Think about it, if they didn't know how it is trapped, then how do they know it is trapped at all? If a character realises a door is trapped, it is probably because he sees or understand the trapping mechanism.

So assuming they sucesfully searched the door and found the trap, you did nothing wrong in telling them how it wored.

(Provided of course it is a mechanical trap. If it was a magical trap, they might realise that there was some sort of magical trap, but not know what the magical effects would be.)

They ran back and dragged a dwarf over and heafted it up so its blocking hte arrow slits.
I wouldl ike to know how should I have ruled this?

Good idea. Then again, don't any of them have a shield? A metal shield should stop an arrow just as well as a darf corpse would.

How does it work? Just use common sense. (That's always a good rule to go by). If there is a hole that arrows come out of, and the hole is blocked, then the arrow doesn't come out.
Free1983
05-16-07, 10:31 AM Then later they found a door that is trapped with a arrow slit (I dont know if I should just tell my player the door is trapped or what it is trapped with and where, most liekly the former but they are new so I told them how it wa trapped and where). So they wanted to open the door and duck to dodge the arrows. But then one of them had an idea. They ran back and dragged a dwarf over and heafted it up so its blocking hte arrow slits.
I wouldl ike to know how should I have ruled this? Do I say the trap is negated or just give the person opening the door a bonus to AC or the person holding the dwarf a bonus to AC?

I would say that northern_bear makes some good points although I don't agree completely.

But if the searched the door, and succeeded on their search check, they realise it is trapped. And it should be pretty obvious how it is trapped. Think about it, if they didn't know how it is trapped, then how do they know it is trapped at all? If a character realises a door is trapped, it is probably because he sees or understand the trapping mechanism.

So assuming they sucesfully searched the door and found the trap, you did nothing wrong in telling them how it worked.

In my game when my players succeed on a search check, I usually tell them about the trap and its functioning, but that doesn't mean that I always tell them what's going on. They might some loose tiles that are the trigger for a trap, but I don't tell them what kind of trap it triggers. In other instances they found tripwires, a decapitated corpse and other things that clearly indicated that something odd was going on.

Also how would this work for future traps, such as hail of needles, scythe blade, lightning blast ext.?
Thanks for oyur time.

If they can find clever solutions for those traps too, by all means, allow them to disable the trap. Your players should be rewarded for thinking out such things. But the traps will become more complicated as their CR goes up. They won't be able to bypass the trap so easily anymore. In those cases they'll need the party rogue to do a disable device check. If the rogue succeeds you could provide a description of the way he disables it.
One other thing that might interest you. In my group we have a rule that if the rogue goes 5 above the DC, he/she knows how to set up the trap himself (if he has the tools, materials,...)

Hope this helps,

Cheers
Kouk
05-16-07, 11:25 AM It depends on the trap. If it just fires a single (normal) arrow by making the trap attack roll as described in the DMG, I would think any fairly solid thing would stop it. Arrows don't tend to go through more than one person after all, without the Penetrating Shot feat.

So, with that single arrow taken care of, they have "defeated" the trap. They didn't exactly disable it, but it no longer functions.

Some traps though, fire multiple arrows, so one may be stopped by the dwarf body, then they move past it, but more arrows come out if they weren't still blocking the hole.

From SRD:
Other Ways To Beat A Trap

It’s possible to ruin many traps without making a Disable Device check.

Ranged Attack Traps
Once a trap’s location is known, the obvious way to ruin it is to smash the mechanism—assuming the mechanism can be accessed. Failing that, it’s possible to plug up the holes from which the projectiles emerge. Doing this prevents the trap from firing unless its ammunition does enough damage to break through the plugs.

Melee Attack Traps
These devices can be thwarted by smashing the mechanism or blocking the weapons, as noted above. Alternatively, if a character studies the trap as it triggers, he might be able to time his dodges just right to avoid damage. A character who is doing nothing but studying a trap when it first goes off gains a +4 dodge bonus against its attacks if it is triggered again within the next minute.

Pits
Disabling a pit trap generally ruins only the trapdoor, making it an uncovered pit. Filling in the pit or building a makeshift bridge across it is an application of manual labor, not the Disable Device skill. Characters could neutralize any spikes at the bottom of a pit by attacking them—they break just as daggers do.

Magic Traps
Dispel magic helps here. Someone who succeeds on a caster level check against the level of the trap’s creator suppresses the trap for 1d4 rounds. This works only with a targeted dispel magic, not the area version.

If nobody is Searching for traps in the first place, then you wouldn't tell them there was a trap automatically. But if they are just learning go ahead I guess (but getting shot with an arrow tends to be a good learning experience).

If they get a high result on their Disable Device check, then they can know exactly how it works. Otherwise it is just some kind of trigger for some kind of trap, which can be modified by your understanding of how the trap works. If there are spikes that come out of the floor, and there are holes clearly visible even without a Search check, then you can tell them that there are suspicious holes on the floor. But do those holes have spikes? Arrows? Flame-throwers? Can't tell without a high Disable Device check.
Sajek
05-16-07, 12:45 PM A metal shield should stop an arrow just as well as a darf corpse would.

Not neccesarily. The Welsh longbow had eighty pounds of force behind it's arrows. It could punch through a full set of plate armor at six hundred feet. At point blank? Please. It would tear through the shield like paper.
temparus2000
05-16-07, 03:38 PM Not neccesarily. The Welsh longbow had eighty pounds of force behind it's arrows. It could punch through a full set of plate armor at six hundred feet. At point blank? Please. It would tear through the shield like paper.

yeah, like I said earlier...whether or not the dwarf corpse would stop the arrow depends on how much force the arrow has behind it. What's the equivelant of the device firing the arrow? Is it a hand-crossbow? A composite longbow? A friggin ballista?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Raumz 05-15-07, 10:57 PM	Hi. Well in my last session my players went into a dungeon and the first things they encountered were 3 dwarves who were evil and so on. So they killed these dwarves. Then later they found a door that is trapped with a arrow slit (I dont know if I should just tell my player the door is trapped or what it is trapped with and where, most liekly the former but they are new so I told them how it wa trapped and where). So they wanted to open the door and duck to dodge the arrows. But then one of them had an idea. They ran back and dragged a dwarf over and heafted it up so its blocking hte arrow slits. I wouldl ike to know how should I have ruled this? Do I say the trap is negated or just give the person opening the door a bonus to AC or the person holding the dwarf a bonus to AC? Also how would this work for future traps, such as hail of needles, scythe blade, lightning blast ext.? Thanks for oyur time.
temparus2000 05-15-07, 11:57 PM	I'd say the arrow slit is effectively disarmed, unless you rule that the force of the arrow might be strong enough to penetrate the dead dwarf completely.
Kraleck 05-16-07, 07:31 AM	Remember, corpses make for heavy soft cover that will eventually fall apart from the damage it is taking. Even if it works, it won't for very long nor will it be light. If anybody is a dwarf or other dwarven subrace the latter point is not an issue.
northern_bear 05-16-07, 07:42 AM	Then later they found a door that is trapped with a arrow slit (I dont know if I should just tell my player the door is trapped or what it is trapped with and where, most liekly the former but they are new so I told them how it wa trapped and where). Did they check the door to see if it was trapped, or did you just tell them it was trapped? If they didn't bother checking the door, then they shouldn't even know that it is trapped at all, let alone how it is trapped. But if the searched the door, and succeeded on their search check, they realise it is trapped. And it should be pretty obvious how it is trapped. Think about it, if they didn't know how it is trapped, then how do they know it is trapped at all? If a character realises a door is trapped, it is probably because he sees or understand the trapping mechanism. So assuming they sucesfully searched the door and found the trap, you did nothing wrong in telling them how it wored. (Provided of course it is a mechanical trap. If it was a magical trap, they might realise that there was some sort of magical trap, but not know what the magical effects would be.) They ran back and dragged a dwarf over and heafted it up so its blocking hte arrow slits. I wouldl ike to know how should I have ruled this? Good idea. Then again, don't any of them have a shield? A metal shield should stop an arrow just as well as a darf corpse would. How does it work? Just use common sense. (That's always a good rule to go by). If there is a hole that arrows come out of, and the hole is blocked, then the arrow doesn't come out.
Free1983 05-16-07, 10:31 AM	Then later they found a door that is trapped with a arrow slit (I dont know if I should just tell my player the door is trapped or what it is trapped with and where, most liekly the former but they are new so I told them how it wa trapped and where). So they wanted to open the door and duck to dodge the arrows. But then one of them had an idea. They ran back and dragged a dwarf over and heafted it up so its blocking hte arrow slits. I wouldl ike to know how should I have ruled this? Do I say the trap is negated or just give the person opening the door a bonus to AC or the person holding the dwarf a bonus to AC? I would say that northern_bear makes some good points although I don't agree completely. But if the searched the door, and succeeded on their search check, they realise it is trapped. And it should be pretty obvious how it is trapped. Think about it, if they didn't know how it is trapped, then how do they know it is trapped at all? If a character realises a door is trapped, it is probably because he sees or understand the trapping mechanism. So assuming they sucesfully searched the door and found the trap, you did nothing wrong in telling them how it worked. In my game when my players succeed on a search check, I usually tell them about the trap and its functioning, but that doesn't mean that I always tell them what's going on. They might some loose tiles that are the trigger for a trap, but I don't tell them what kind of trap it triggers. In other instances they found tripwires, a decapitated corpse and other things that clearly indicated that something odd was going on. Also how would this work for future traps, such as hail of needles, scythe blade, lightning blast ext.? Thanks for oyur time. If they can find clever solutions for those traps too, by all means, allow them to disable the trap. Your players should be rewarded for thinking out such things. But the traps will become more complicated as their CR goes up. They won't be able to bypass the trap so easily anymore. In those cases they'll need the party rogue to do a disable device check. If the rogue succeeds you could provide a description of the way he disables it. One other thing that might interest you. In my group we have a rule that if the rogue goes 5 above the DC, he/she knows how to set up the trap himself (if he has the tools, materials,...) Hope this helps, Cheers
Kouk 05-16-07, 11:25 AM	It depends on the trap. If it just fires a single (normal) arrow by making the trap attack roll as described in the DMG, I would think any fairly solid thing would stop it. Arrows don't tend to go through more than one person after all, without the Penetrating Shot feat. So, with that single arrow taken care of, they have "defeated" the trap. They didn't exactly disable it, but it no longer functions. Some traps though, fire multiple arrows, so one may be stopped by the dwarf body, then they move past it, but more arrows come out if they weren't still blocking the hole. From SRD: Other Ways To Beat A Trap It’s possible to ruin many traps without making a Disable Device check. Ranged Attack Traps Once a trap’s location is known, the obvious way to ruin it is to smash the mechanism—assuming the mechanism can be accessed. Failing that, it’s possible to plug up the holes from which the projectiles emerge. Doing this prevents the trap from firing unless its ammunition does enough damage to break through the plugs. Melee Attack Traps These devices can be thwarted by smashing the mechanism or blocking the weapons, as noted above. Alternatively, if a character studies the trap as it triggers, he might be able to time his dodges just right to avoid damage. A character who is doing nothing but studying a trap when it first goes off gains a +4 dodge bonus against its attacks if it is triggered again within the next minute. Pits Disabling a pit trap generally ruins only the trapdoor, making it an uncovered pit. Filling in the pit or building a makeshift bridge across it is an application of manual labor, not the Disable Device skill. Characters could neutralize any spikes at the bottom of a pit by attacking them—they break just as daggers do. Magic Traps Dispel magic helps here. Someone who succeeds on a caster level check against the level of the trap’s creator suppresses the trap for 1d4 rounds. This works only with a targeted dispel magic, not the area version. If nobody is Searching for traps in the first place, then you wouldn't tell them there was a trap automatically. But if they are just learning go ahead I guess (but getting shot with an arrow tends to be a good learning experience). If they get a high result on their Disable Device check, then they can know exactly how it works. Otherwise it is just some kind of trigger for some kind of trap, which can be modified by your understanding of how the trap works. If there are spikes that come out of the floor, and there are holes clearly visible even without a Search check, then you can tell them that there are suspicious holes on the floor. But do those holes have spikes? Arrows? Flame-throwers? Can't tell without a high Disable Device check.
Sajek 05-16-07, 12:45 PM	A metal shield should stop an arrow just as well as a darf corpse would. Not neccesarily. The Welsh longbow had eighty pounds of force behind it's arrows. It could punch through a full set of plate armor at six hundred feet. At point blank? Please. It would tear through the shield like paper.
temparus2000 05-16-07, 03:38 PM	Not neccesarily. The Welsh longbow had eighty pounds of force behind it's arrows. It could punch through a full set of plate armor at six hundred feet. At point blank? Please. It would tear through the shield like paper. yeah, like I said earlier...whether or not the dwarf corpse would stop the arrow depends on how much force the arrow has behind it. What's the equivelant of the device firing the arrow? Is it a hand-crossbow? A composite longbow? A friggin ballista?