Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Finarin Panjoro 10-24-07, 02:50 PM	I'm running a campaign with only two players currently and I'm looking for ways to beef up the party without requiring them to play two characters. I've been using NPCs, but that takes too much time away from the players (if I roll for the bad guys and the allied npcs they're basically watching me fight myself when its not their turn). The party consists of a half-elf bard2/fighter2 reach fighter and an elf sorceror 4. A few thoughts I've had are: 1. Award a cohort for good roleplay. (I don't want them to have to take the leadership feat that just further weakens them), this is however akin to playing two characters. 2. The Draconic familiar feat can give the sorceror a dragon side-kick (this will probably happen since she likes this idea). 3. Allow them to acquire a Shield Guardian (until they hit around 10th level I would probably have this be a lesser shield guardian- something similar but medium size and more like CR 5). I think they would enjoy the shield guardian and it certailnly would improve their survivability, but its also too powerful to implement any time in the near future. If I did use a shield guardian, its addition would be similar to gaining a new party member rather than gaining a magic item (I would not count its 120k value toward their wealth by level guideline). I can certainly continue to tailor encounters to their lesser numbers but its getting hard to offer challenges that aren't lopsided (either too easy or likely to kill them both) and yet are new and interesting. Part of the problem is that a single critical hit can totally turn the tide of battle against these guys. Any suggestions at all would be appreciated, but revising their characters is not an option, they have been playing them for a while and really like their existing characters (so no gestalts, etc.)
Ultima0071 10-24-07, 03:15 PM	I'm running a campaign with only two players currently and I'm looking for ways to beef up the party without requiring them to play two characters. I've been using NPCs, but that takes too much time away from the players (if I roll for the bad guys and the allied npcs they're basically watching me fight myself when its not their turn). The party consists of a half-elf bard2/fighter2 reach fighter and an elf sorceror 4. A few thoughts I've had are: 1. Award a cohort for good roleplay. (I don't want them to have to take the leadership feat that just further weakens them), this is however akin to playing two characters. 2. The Draconic familiar feat can give the sorceror a dragon side-kick (this will probably happen since she likes this idea). 3. Allow them to acquire a Shield Guardian (until they hit around 10th level I would probably have this be a lesser shield guardian- something similar but medium size and more like CR 5). I think they would enjoy the shield guardian and it certailnly would improve their survivability, but its also too powerful to implement any time in the near future. I can certainly continue to tailor encounters to their lesser numbers but its getting hard to offer challenges that aren't lopsided (either too easy or likely to kill them both) and yet are knew and interesting. Part of the problem is that a single critical hit can totally turn the tide of battle against these guys. Any suggestions at all would be appreciated, but revising their characters is not an option, they have been playing them for a while and really like their existing characters (so no gestalts, etc.) Give them magic items. It helps them in smal amounts without increasing their power too much. Give one of them a cleric cohort. Give their cohort a cure light wounds staff. This will beef up their party a ton.
zenlike 10-24-07, 03:38 PM	You can let them acquire some kind of minor template (LA +1 or 2) and not apply the adjustment. Half-Vampire, Shadow creature, etc. Pitty about the no gestalt thing. I run a game with only a couple of players and the gestalt works great. Good luck.
Phrennzy 10-24-07, 04:21 PM	A magic item that lets them summon an elemental 3/day. As they improve in power, so does the elemental. No RP necessary. No out of combat need. Similar to the shield guardian, but easier to manage. You could also allow to find a magic pool that bumps one, a few, or all of their stats up a point or two.
rlor 10-24-07, 05:51 PM	You may want to look at the action surge feat and action point system from Eberron for a few extra things they can do in a round as well as increased survivability. Basically a free standard action can be really nice at times. I think there are a few variants and it is the Eberron version of action surge that gives you a free standard or move, but I could be mistaken.
wizarddog 10-25-07, 03:47 AM	Magic items are the best and easy way. The bard can be the healer and give him wands with cure wounds. The sor can given scrolls and wands with spells on their spell list. Other good items: Spell storing items weapons with energy/bane damage Or you can simply send them easier to defeat enemies.
Marcus Majarra 10-25-07, 04:07 AM	You're faced with two problems: 1) You're lacking party roles. Two characters cannot do what an entire party could do. 2) You're lacking firepower. Two characters can't do as much as a party could. Using cohorts will work well towards solving both issues. Gestalt rules will help the two-man party fill the missing party roles, but you'll have to tone down the intensity of encounters to what you would set up for a 3-man party.
Finarin Panjoro 10-25-07, 09:51 AM	Marcus has summed up the problems nicely. I don't believe that a template (even a discounted one), free magic items, or stronger abilities or powers are going to solve the problem. What they need is more man/firepower and the filling of certain party roles. A shield guardian fills two of the missing party roles- tank and healer (it can store a healing spell to be used when one of them falls in battle, can cast friend shield on one of the PCs, and fast heals itself). A Dragon familiar ups their man and fire power and may help with scouting and healing (via UMD). Phrennzy's summoning item does address these issues (it provides more targets for enemies, more actions for the party, someone to fill the tank role, and more options if both PCs are taken down). But I'm thinking something with greater free will and perhaps healing powers might be better (such as summoning a celestial unicorn or something like that). rlor's suggestion about implementing action points may have merit as well because, from what little I know about it, that system seems like it might do a good job of providing extra boosts in critical situations and help prevent random chance from causing a TPK. I'll look into that. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's ideas and I appreciate all of your comments, so please keep them coming.
BW0222 10-25-07, 11:45 AM	Finarin Panjoro, Marcus is correct in the two problems -- lack of party roles and lack of firepower. However, there are lots of ways to solve each without adding more party members. 1. Magical items can be used to fill roles. The two roles missing from the party are rogue and cleric. A wand or two of cure light or cure moderate wounds, some healing and/or buffing potions, a clock of elvenkind, scrolls of invisibility and knock, etc., etc. can allow folks to handle much of the cleric and rogue's roles fairly well. 2. You can reduce the need to certain types of roles. Don't put too many undead encounters, stealth missions, or traps in. This reduces their need for such roles. 3. They can beef themself up with non-magical firepower. At low levels they can take warhorses or riding dogs. These provide blocking, extra eyes for guard duty, etc. You can make use of the sorcerors familiar to provide suggestions, help with guard duty or scouting, etc. Alchemists fire, tanglefoot bags, or thunderstones are effective at low levels. (A bit of extra coin at low levels is helpful). 4. You can use magical items to provide extra bodies. A wand of summon monster III, figurines of wondrous power, a bag of tricks, etc. all help to quickly even out combats. 5. You can lower the EL of combats. The APL if the party (with only two folks is likely 2 lower than a four person group - at about APL 5+). You can either lower the number or CR of creatures by a couple, give the PCs fewer combats per day, give the PCs some defensive positions, greater chance of surprise on major combats, etc. 6. PCs can take leadership. That doesn't mean that they necessarily control the NPCs - although it is typically less work for the DM. 7. Place the PCs in settings where they have a better chance. For example, they'll likely do a lot better in a long term plot arc set in a city than one involving lots of overland travel. Access to temples, use of NPC spell casting and services, greater chance to rest, etc. If you are going to take them to remote places, put in more useful mundane items and consumables -- arrows, flasks of oil, alchemists fire, etc. 8. Introduce them to a greater range of friendly NPCs. These don't have to adventure with them, but it is nice to have someone who the PCs can go to for advice, spellcasting services, etc. 9. I always recommend giving the PCs the occational "get out of jail free" item. A single-user items of higher power which ensures that they can get out of a jam no matter what. Players make mistakes, however with a larger group if you accidently forget to put up a guard, fall into a pit trap when the ogres come, or fail a save vs. a hold person spell, half your party likely isn't out of the combat in the first round. I recommend something like a scroll of summon monster III at low levels, an elemental gem at mid levels, etc. Something that pretty much ensures that they can get through one combat no matter how bad things get. They shouldn't get more than one of these every few levels, but you want some type of hedge against mistakes. 10. You can put less combat encounters and more roleplaying ones in. They should be gaining XP rather quickly due to only having two folks.
Absynthe_minded21 10-25-07, 02:52 PM	The most important question is always How Do The Players Feel? Solo campaigns work great and have even less to work with then this duo, as long as both the DM and player have the right mindset. A few other questions, for my own personal curiousity. 1: Does the bard/fighter know what he's doing? Reach fighters are great for dealing damage without taking any, but without something to stand behind it's rather useless. Is he new to the game and thought that the idea sounded cool or does the party have some rather clever tactic for keeping foes beyond arms reach? Did he take his first level as a fighter for the bonus feat? 2: Does the sorceror know what he's doing? In a small party it's entirely too easy to have a sorceror's entire "spellbook" taken up by spells he doesn't get to use often and having to really rely on one or two spells over and over. Coupled with a bard he should be able to leave out some divination and buff/debuff type spells and be alright. You seem to have a very versitile pair of characters with alot of potential to box themselves in. I suggest letting them swap out feats/skills/spells or even classes/races if the transition is small (Fighter to Barbarian, Human to Halfelf for example) so they can be sure to have the talents they need rather then taking something it turns out they never use. 3: What have you done to fix the situation before it comes to game altering levels which very well may need to be maintained during the entire life of the characters? Have you asked them if they have any friends who would be interested in playing? Haunted the local RPG store for other interested people? In a community of any size it shouldn't be hard to scrounge up one or two more regulars if you want to fill seats. 4: My final question (and please don't take this as an insult, it's not meant as one) are you sure you're asking this because you want the party to work more effectively? All too often DMs want to dive right into "The Good Stuff" and begin getting frustrated with their PCs not being able to handle it yet. The ones that can't resist the temptation begin to buff their PCs and in the long run it trivializes the satisfaction of earning advancement. Not every adventure needs to be an epic quest to save the world, an Oger Mage with a tribe of Goblins makes every bit as effective a villian as a Balor with a legion of fiends, and a Dragon that isn't Red is still a Dragon. At their current point a 7th level Cleric is indistinguishable from a Deity; both can outright kill them with a touch. To recap, make sure the players know both what they are doing and what they want out of the game and try to give it to them in a way you can enjoy too. Add more players before you add golems if you can. Make certain you are building the adventures to fit the party, not trying to build the party to fit the adventures. If you're doing all of this already, then feel free to tinker away! And again, nothing in here was meant as an insult, just as advice. Please take no offense.
Finarin Panjoro 10-25-07, 04:32 PM	BWO222 and Absynthe-minded21, Thank you both for your thoughtful and well-reasoned suggestions and comments. The problem I'm facing is that a simple, below CR encounter, can turn fatal in a heartbeat depending on a few die rolls. Even though the bard is also a fighter they both have relatively low hit points. So one critical hit, even by a low CR monster, can nearly kill either of them. This downs half the party. My problem is random chance combined with low numbers of PCs leading to encounters that were intended to be relatively easy suddenly becoming extremely deadly. The problem with lowering the difficulty of encounters is that in many cases those encounters then become too easy. A CR 2 creature is usually toast (one scorching ray usually kills it). The PCs (both are ladies btw) actually make a fairly effective team and are learning to work together well. But both are casual players, they don't think in terms of builds or party roles or min/maxing. They just want to play a cool character and both of them love what they are playing now. They have already caught on to adapting to fill party roles (the bard has a wand of CLW, the sorceror purchased scrolls of knock, and so on). They have no interest in re-defining their characters to make them more effective, they want to play these characters effectively (so templates are mostly out, re-choosing feats/skills/etc). I have gone out of my way to make sure that these concepts play well (custom feats that allow things they can't normally do, house-rules that make sorceror's spell level advance at the same rate as a wizard, etc). They also defined the setting for me, they wanted a pirate campaign. So they're serving on a ship and probably eventually going to captain their own. I figured this setting was nearly as good as urban for providing back up and support (lots of warriors, a cleric and druid on board for spellcasting and item creation, plus who knows what all those crewmen are capable of...if I need a rogue all of a sudden, then one of the crew is actually a former thief or some such). But again using a lot of npcs slows down combat and takes the focus away from them. Essentially I need more bodies in the party to spread the pain amongst. Several of your ideas have merit (trained animals, monster summoning magic, etc). Due to scheduling issues for us adding additional players would simply mean playing less often. Additionally they like the pace of the game as is (it does play faster with fewer people at the table) and they've already invested a lot in these characters and this story line. So I'm really looking for something that can be smoothly introduced into the game world to help with this situation. I'll combine that with the other techniques that have been mentioned (making certain things available to them, perhaps a few buffs for good measure, etc,) and be careful not to try to rush them into anything they shouldn't be facing yet (which may have happenend a time or two!) So more suggestions please!
BW0222 10-25-07, 05:06 PM	Finarin Panjoro, For critical avoidance, they'll honestly need to gain a few levels. It is an issue for most low-level folks. However, AC, con-boasting item, defensive spells (protection from evil, blur, mirror image, etc.) usually solve this quickly. Just have the PCs find a wand of mirror image (15 charges), some scrolls of displacement, and some potions of protection from evil. With these, and lowering the EL, they shouldn't be hit that often -- let alone crit'd. The problem with lowering the difficulty of encounters is that in many cases those encounters then become too easy. A CR 2 creature is usually toast (one scorching ray usually kills it). There are ways to lower the EL of an encounter without adjusting the creatures of numbers. For example, suppose your party is 5th-level, but with only two that is only say APL 3. You typically, wish them to fight EL 3 combats, which isn't terribly impressive - say 4 orcs. Not much of a challenge against 5th-level PCs. However, you could use an EL 5 encounter (8 orcs) and merely add: * Surprise. Setup the encounter such that the orcs are likely likely to be surprised -- say arguing or busy digging with their weapons out of reach. * Defensible positions. The orcs are attacking the PCs who are stationed behind a barricade or in a narrow hall or across a bridge such that the PCs have an advantage. * PCs have prep-time. Orcs are coming down a road which the PCs can see from a distance. They have time to put up spells, buff, etc. * PCs have special equipment. Lots of alchemists fire, an old balista, etc. which can be employed. * Combat conditions. Several of the orcs aren't too happy about the mission and they will flee as soon as half are drowned. * The orcs have poor equipment. No big axes, just some cheap padded armor and crude clubs and rocks. * The creature is out of its element. Goblins in the day, winter wolves chained to a wall, etc. * Lower the number of encounters per day - which some idea that the PC will rest. They can then unload their daily limits into the PCs. etc. There are lots of ways to make a normal EL 5 encounter an EL 3 encounter (or the opposite). In this way, the PCs get the accomplishment for defeating larger groups or more powerful creatures, but the DM is providing some encounter modifiers to put the EL back into the reasonable catagory. There are also ways to make lower EL encounters to look more dangerous. For example, you only have four orcs, but two immediately toss alchemists fire, one drinks a potion of enlarge person, and the fourth (around a corner) starts making noises like more orcs are coming.
Dragonsblood 10-25-07, 05:23 PM	Put them in a dungeon. At some room in the dungeon, they trigger a surge of magic. Suddenly they're gestalt with max HP per level, and they continue to advance this way.
Absynthe_minded21 10-26-07, 07:57 AM	Finarin, Sounds like what you may need to do is cheat. Start making your attack roles behind the screen and if it looks like the PCs are going down too fast, fudge the rolls in your PCs favor. Just be sure to occassionally drop them down to near death, so they never suspect that you aren't killing them on purpose. Also, if you'd like, stack some secret penalties onto your mobs, your PCs don't need to know that you stifled that oger with a -2/-2 penalty, or that the evil mage's spell caused one fewer die of damage then it should have. It sounds to me like you have a really great pair of players there, the kind that care more about the story then owning in fictional combat. For a pair like that, it's totally worth the extra effort of keeping them alive. B.T.W. I actually do think a shield gaurdian or something of the sort is a good idea now that I know the situation.
Finarin Panjoro 10-26-07, 09:58 AM	Thanks guys, Between all of your suggestions I think I'm starting to narrow in on a few courses of action. 1. I think I will implement action points (or something similar), but I'll probably have that be something special that happens to them (as in this is a power others don't possess). 2. I will tailor encounter conditions more to balance out encounters to an appropriate EL. 3. I will continue to fudge when necessary. 4. I will make a lesser shield guardian available to them. Eventually becoming a real shield guardian (I don't want it dominating combats at lower levels). Once the sorceror takes the Draconic familiar feat this will give her a shield guardian and a dragon companion while the fighter/bard will be captain of a ship and crew. I think this will work out well. Thanks all for your help, More comments and suggestions are certainly welcome!
Nino 11-18-07, 11:28 PM	I believe you're simply lacking players. Too many magic items can spoil role-playing and turn it into a game of numbers. By adding one or two more players you can increase character interaction and a dependency on different roles without all of the random extra magic items...