Beguiler Cloaked Casting [Archive] - Wizards Community

Beguiler Cloaked Casting [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CelestialBarbarian
08-04-06, 10:20 AM I was wondering what you think of the beguiler's special ability of cloaked casting, which raises the saving throw and gives a bonus on penetrating spell resistance when the beguiler casts against a creature that would be denied its Dexterity bonus.

I had two thoughts:

1. First it seemed to me that automatically allowing the beguiler at 20th level to overcome the creature's spell resistance grants too much power. It seems like a more balanced idea to double the bonus from +2 (at 8th level) to +4 the way that the ability doubles the bonus to DC from +1 at 2nd level to +2 at 14th level. That way also the beguiler could continue to improve spell penetration at epic levels.

2. Then it occured to me that you don't need to be aware of an attack to gain the benefits of spell resistance (p. 298 DMG, last sentence of the first paragraph under "Spell Resistance"). So why should some power suddenly make your spell resistance weaker just because you're unaware of the attack?

3. Finally it occurred to me that you don't need to be aware of an attack to get a saving throw either, so why should some power suddenly make your saving throw harder just because you're not aware of it?

So am I the only one who sees any problem with the ability? Do you:

A. Think it's fine just as it is;

B. Think that the power at 20th level should be changed from automatically overcoming SR to merely increasing the bonus to overcome SR; or

C. Think the whole power is broken and should be eliminated (or perhaps replaced with something else)?

Thanks!
Richmud
08-04-06, 11:26 AM Personally I think its fine, its a nice enough ability to encourage someone to not go into an prc but not really overpowered.

Also just because its an ability that everyone else is unable to do, doesn't mean its a bad ability.
Neo_Leviathan
08-04-06, 02:39 PM While I'm not sure how I feel about the spell resistance overcoming, especially the auto-pass at 20, I 100% agree with the increased DC.

Think of it this way mate:
Scenario 1:
You're sitting on your bedroll, tired after a hard days adventuring, reading a nice book, completely oblivious to the invisible mage before he blasts you with a fireball.

Scenario 2:
You're in a battle to the death duel with an enemy wizard, you're watching him carefully, you've taken note of every piece of cover nearby, you're ready to leap out of the way at a microsecond's notice, then the fireball comes.

And you expect the person in Scenario 1 to have just as much chance of dodging as the one in Scenario 2?

The same thing applies for Fort and Will saves, if you've ever say, brushed accidently against a fence that you didn't realise was electric, it hits a *lot* harder than when you steel yourself to test if a fence is on or not.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CelestialBarbarian 08-04-06, 10:20 AM	I was wondering what you think of the beguiler's special ability of cloaked casting, which raises the saving throw and gives a bonus on penetrating spell resistance when the beguiler casts against a creature that would be denied its Dexterity bonus. I had two thoughts: 1. First it seemed to me that automatically allowing the beguiler at 20th level to overcome the creature's spell resistance grants too much power. It seems like a more balanced idea to double the bonus from +2 (at 8th level) to +4 the way that the ability doubles the bonus to DC from +1 at 2nd level to +2 at 14th level. That way also the beguiler could continue to improve spell penetration at epic levels. 2. Then it occured to me that you don't need to be aware of an attack to gain the benefits of spell resistance (p. 298 DMG, last sentence of the first paragraph under "Spell Resistance"). So why should some power suddenly make your spell resistance weaker just because you're unaware of the attack? 3. Finally it occurred to me that you don't need to be aware of an attack to get a saving throw either, so why should some power suddenly make your saving throw harder just because you're not aware of it? So am I the only one who sees any problem with the ability? Do you: A. Think it's fine just as it is; B. Think that the power at 20th level should be changed from automatically overcoming SR to merely increasing the bonus to overcome SR; or C. Think the whole power is broken and should be eliminated (or perhaps replaced with something else)? Thanks!
Richmud 08-04-06, 11:26 AM	Personally I think its fine, its a nice enough ability to encourage someone to not go into an prc but not really overpowered. Also just because its an ability that everyone else is unable to do, doesn't mean its a bad ability.
Neo_Leviathan 08-04-06, 02:39 PM	While I'm not sure how I feel about the spell resistance overcoming, especially the auto-pass at 20, I 100% agree with the increased DC. Think of it this way mate: Scenario 1: You're sitting on your bedroll, tired after a hard days adventuring, reading a nice book, completely oblivious to the invisible mage before he blasts you with a fireball. Scenario 2: You're in a battle to the death duel with an enemy wizard, you're watching him carefully, you've taken note of every piece of cover nearby, you're ready to leap out of the way at a microsecond's notice, then the fireball comes. And you expect the person in Scenario 1 to have just as much chance of dodging as the one in Scenario 2? The same thing applies for Fort and Will saves, if you've ever say, brushed accidently against a fence that you didn't realise was electric, it hits a lot harder than when you steel yourself to test if a fence is on or not.