Behold! Er... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Behold! Er... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
olodrin
11-29-06, 04:50 PM I'm currently running the Shackled City Advenure Path where one of the villains is a Beholder; I've decided to use the alternate Beholder build recently posted by WoTC.

The issue is this: the players will likely know that they'll be facing an Eye Tyrant, and will likely come equipped with a scroll or two of Anti-Magic Field. So, how do I keep it interesting? Any ideas?

Thanks,
Olodrin
Sildatorak
11-29-06, 05:01 PM The beholder's flight is an (Ex) ability. In case of anti-magic, it is likely to float up, up, and away.
PenderGrass
11-29-06, 05:02 PM I would recommend NOT using the WotC web-published variant.

:dragon:
****
wordserpent
11-29-06, 05:05 PM It seems that it all boils down to who gets the initiative. The partymember with the antimagic field or the beholder with the antimagic field. If the beholder uses his own antimagic field gaze on t a player who is trying to cast his own field the the beholder will nullify that spell for the player and will have control over when and where an antimagic field will be during the encounter.

If the player succesfully casts his own field before the beholder can stop him, yo might want to have the beholder change his location by retreating to a more advantageous position where he can call the shots against the party.
Messer
11-29-06, 05:21 PM Anti magic field??

heck, you wanna make it interesting?

When they do that, you simply use cover.

According to what the WoTC thing about the 'varient beholder' (I have me own issues with beholders) it can "cast the spell" where ever it wants as can your players. Sure... as above init matters but, the way I see it... .and I do see it a strange way.

An Eye Tyrant will certainly have itself a large place. That place will have, imporatntly, "Open Space" and "Cover" which should make things interesting. I dont see why and eye tyrant wouldnt put itself behind cover, given that it can shoot those nifty little eye rays all over creation. Cover would be the darndest thing.... could you imagine it. I can Disitigrate you thought a peep hole! (or any other number of horrid things.)

They drop thier anti magic shell, I move beholder to cover where they can't hit him with arrows, and wait... for someone to become a willing target.

it shouldn't be that devistating, Beholders use the anti-magic deal on themselves all the time.
DM_Shonuff
11-29-06, 05:40 PM Monster Ecology:

Any intelligent monster knows their own shortcomings. And any EVIl monster knows that as history has shown, they MAY be raided by the good guys..
Have the Beholder use some strange magic and place flamestrike into flagstones So when that nifty parchment comes up and out, BOOM. roll that save.

Or have the Beholder hire a rogue for the sole purpose of stealing anything from any local adventurers that could Hinder the beholder's butt-kickingness.
then knowing a beholder's intelliegence, he'd hire an assassin to kill the rogue without telling the assasssin that the rogue held items to defeat him. Assassin will kill the rogue, steal his stuff, and make off into the darkness.. leaving the PCs without said anti magic items..

OR...

OR have the Beholder own a few mage summoner slaves that will use summoned minions as front line fodder, when the scrolls are used up, then the beholder drifts into view..if you close your eyes, you can hear the PCs crying, ... "Man I wish I woulda saved a scroll..."

OR leave the scrolls alone, and go for overpowering defenses for the Beholder. It aint like he just moved into his lair last night... I'm sure he has a few dozen slaves that set up some nice traps..IF the guy with the AM scrolls falls into a pit and dies...oops...no more AM problem...
greatamericanfolkhero
11-29-06, 06:48 PM The AMF doesn't mean squat when the Beholder disintegrates part of the ceiling above the players, allowing rubble and debris to come crashing down on them, and any object that is thrown using the thrust part of telekinesis continues to travel in an AMF. The beholder should use its surroundings.

(This all, of course, is based on my understanding of the "classic beholder", as I haven't seen the variant the OP wishes to use. If the variant doesn't have these options, then disregard this post.)
Gilganarz_the_reporter
11-29-06, 06:54 PM You do know that Vhalantru doesn't have the same stats as an ordinary beholder when the PCs face him, having recieved the Tarterian template right?
sir_dwar
11-29-06, 07:28 PM I'm currently running the Shackled City Advenure Path where one of the villains is a Beholder; I've decided to use the alternate Beholder build recently posted by WoTC.

The issue is this: the players will likely know that they'll be facing an Eye Tyrant, and will likely come equipped with a scroll or two of Anti-Magic Field. So, how do I keep it interesting? Any ideas?

Thanks,
Olodrin

I am of the vehement belief that that is overpowered.

1. Disintegrate+wizard=no more wizard. Similar story for the rouge. So why did it stay here?

2. You want to get rid of (Ok, just sit aroubnd and wait)s, and you add a stunning ability. Did I miss something here?

3. Part of the thing with antimagic field is that it impeded the beholders own abilities, thus forcing the beholder to make a desicion about what to use. Without that, you might as well trash it.

4. The new antimagic field leaves Mind Flayer wizards Falling off their chair, Illumnian wizards laughing, other wizards smirking, and Clerics, Sorcerers, and other non-int based spellcasters spell-less.

5. Part of my like of beholders was the versatility of their eye rays. Why did that have to go?

Hence, you're better sticking with the origonal one.
Cherubaddon
11-29-06, 07:53 PM Where is this "revised beholder"?
olodrin
11-29-06, 10:06 PM Hey all,

First, thanks for the feedback. For those who have not seen the new Beholder build, it is here: [URL="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20061028a"]

I had also been thinking about the Disintegrate/Telekinesis combo, as well as using the Disintegrate ray to essentially create a "firebreak" between the Beholder and the party, forcing some of them to leave the AM shell when attempting to cross the gap, then shooting them out of the air.

Any other thoughts on how to use a Beholder when it's potential victims are in a handy little AM field?

Thanks,
Olodrin
Salla
11-29-06, 11:47 PM Any other thoughts on how to use a Beholder when it's potential victims are in a handy little AM field?

Thanks,
Olodrin

Minions. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
olodrin 11-29-06, 04:50 PM	I'm currently running the Shackled City Advenure Path where one of the villains is a Beholder; I've decided to use the alternate Beholder build recently posted by WoTC. The issue is this: the players will likely know that they'll be facing an Eye Tyrant, and will likely come equipped with a scroll or two of Anti-Magic Field. So, how do I keep it interesting? Any ideas? Thanks, Olodrin
Sildatorak 11-29-06, 05:01 PM	The beholder's flight is an (Ex) ability. In case of anti-magic, it is likely to float up, up, and away.
PenderGrass 11-29-06, 05:02 PM	I would recommend NOT using the WotC web-published variant. :dragon: ****
wordserpent 11-29-06, 05:05 PM	It seems that it all boils down to who gets the initiative. The partymember with the antimagic field or the beholder with the antimagic field. If the beholder uses his own antimagic field gaze on t a player who is trying to cast his own field the the beholder will nullify that spell for the player and will have control over when and where an antimagic field will be during the encounter. If the player succesfully casts his own field before the beholder can stop him, yo might want to have the beholder change his location by retreating to a more advantageous position where he can call the shots against the party.
Messer 11-29-06, 05:21 PM	Anti magic field?? heck, you wanna make it interesting? When they do that, you simply use cover. According to what the WoTC thing about the 'varient beholder' (I have me own issues with beholders) it can "cast the spell" where ever it wants as can your players. Sure... as above init matters but, the way I see it... .and I do see it a strange way. An Eye Tyrant will certainly have itself a large place. That place will have, imporatntly, "Open Space" and "Cover" which should make things interesting. I dont see why and eye tyrant wouldnt put itself behind cover, given that it can shoot those nifty little eye rays all over creation. Cover would be the darndest thing.... could you imagine it. I can Disitigrate you thought a peep hole! (or any other number of horrid things.) They drop thier anti magic shell, I move beholder to cover where they can't hit him with arrows, and wait... for someone to become a willing target. it shouldn't be that devistating, Beholders use the anti-magic deal on themselves all the time.
DM_Shonuff 11-29-06, 05:40 PM	Monster Ecology: Any intelligent monster knows their own shortcomings. And any EVIl monster knows that as history has shown, they MAY be raided by the good guys.. Have the Beholder use some strange magic and place flamestrike into flagstones So when that nifty parchment comes up and out, BOOM. roll that save. Or have the Beholder hire a rogue for the sole purpose of stealing anything from any local adventurers that could Hinder the beholder's butt-kickingness. then knowing a beholder's intelliegence, he'd hire an assassin to kill the rogue without telling the assasssin that the rogue held items to defeat him. Assassin will kill the rogue, steal his stuff, and make off into the darkness.. leaving the PCs without said anti magic items.. OR... OR have the Beholder own a few mage summoner slaves that will use summoned minions as front line fodder, when the scrolls are used up, then the beholder drifts into view..if you close your eyes, you can hear the PCs crying, ... "Man I wish I woulda saved a scroll..." OR leave the scrolls alone, and go for overpowering defenses for the Beholder. It aint like he just moved into his lair last night... I'm sure he has a few dozen slaves that set up some nice traps..IF the guy with the AM scrolls falls into a pit and dies...oops...no more AM problem...
greatamericanfolkhero 11-29-06, 06:48 PM	The AMF doesn't mean squat when the Beholder disintegrates part of the ceiling above the players, allowing rubble and debris to come crashing down on them, and any object that is thrown using the thrust part of telekinesis continues to travel in an AMF. The beholder should use its surroundings. (This all, of course, is based on my understanding of the "classic beholder", as I haven't seen the variant the OP wishes to use. If the variant doesn't have these options, then disregard this post.)
Gilganarz_the_reporter 11-29-06, 06:54 PM	You do know that Vhalantru doesn't have the same stats as an ordinary beholder when the PCs face him, having recieved the Tarterian template right?
sir_dwar 11-29-06, 07:28 PM	I'm currently running the Shackled City Advenure Path where one of the villains is a Beholder; I've decided to use the alternate Beholder build recently posted by WoTC. The issue is this: the players will likely know that they'll be facing an Eye Tyrant, and will likely come equipped with a scroll or two of Anti-Magic Field. So, how do I keep it interesting? Any ideas? Thanks, Olodrin I am of the vehement belief that that is overpowered. 1. Disintegrate+wizard=no more wizard. Similar story for the rouge. So why did it stay here? 2. You want to get rid of (Ok, just sit aroubnd and wait)s, and you add a stunning ability. Did I miss something here? 3. Part of the thing with antimagic field is that it impeded the beholders own abilities, thus forcing the beholder to make a desicion about what to use. Without that, you might as well trash it. 4. The new antimagic field leaves Mind Flayer wizards Falling off their chair, Illumnian wizards laughing, other wizards smirking, and Clerics, Sorcerers, and other non-int based spellcasters spell-less. 5. Part of my like of beholders was the versatility of their eye rays. Why did that have to go? Hence, you're better sticking with the origonal one.
Cherubaddon 11-29-06, 07:53 PM	Where is this "revised beholder"?
olodrin 11-29-06, 10:06 PM	Hey all, First, thanks for the feedback. For those who have not seen the new Beholder build, it is here: [URL="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20061028a"] I had also been thinking about the Disintegrate/Telekinesis combo, as well as using the Disintegrate ray to essentially create a "firebreak" between the Beholder and the party, forcing some of them to leave the AM shell when attempting to cross the gap, then shooting them out of the air. Any other thoughts on how to use a Beholder when it's potential victims are in a handy little AM field? Thanks, Olodrin
Salla 11-29-06, 11:47 PM	Any other thoughts on how to use a Beholder when it's potential victims are in a handy little AM field? Thanks, Olodrin Minions. :)