Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Epicweaver 01-16-07, 09:13 AM	My party has been tasked with rooting out and defeating a Beholder and I really don't want them to incorrectly gauge the difficulty of the battle and get themselves wiped out... so I'm looking for advice on how to handle the battle (environment setup, encounter setup, etc). The party consists of... half-orc barbarian human fighter/rogue/spellthief human fighter/lurk/elocator human sorcerer/force missile mage human wiz/clr/mystic theurge elf warmage/binder/anime mage elf swashbuckler/fighter/dervish yuan-ti soulknife They are each 32pt ECL10 with appropriate gear for their level going up against a standard out of the book CR13 Beholder... with given preparation and/or good luck on the initiative I think they can really destroy it in one or two rounds. The objective is to make it a tough fight but not really expose the party to too much risk of death (I can easily see one of the party members failing the disintegrate save). They will have an opportunity to buy a few scrolls and possibly a wondrous item or two before they depart for the Beholders lair... any suggestions?
WCH 01-16-07, 09:47 AM	*obligatory comment about parties of eight being ridiculous, stupid and balance destroying* Now that that's out of the way... if they know it's a Beholder, they can make their own plan, not really for you to decide. Note that the party has an EL of 16... so they should really breeze through a CR 13, but because of the Beholder's special abilities it's not really that simple. Don't really need to playtest it so much, but compare their saving throws against its powers, see how likely they are to fail... and realise that they'll probably kill it in two rounds, tops. If they get a surprise round, it will never have a chance to use any eye-rays.
TheCarrionCrawler 01-16-07, 09:51 AM	Control the battlefield. Make the fight on your terms. Try to battle it where you have access to cover. Also, ranged attacks are a must. Give the barbarian and the fighters composite longbows and aim for the central eye. Buy alchemical items and poison. Aberrations are still supceptable to poison. If you can, find a troll/minotaur/ogre barbarian and shrink it. Put it in a jar and shake it up until it gets real mad. Throw the jar so that it shatters in front of the beholder. One antimagic cone away from "Clash of the Titans".
Cifer 01-16-07, 11:42 AM	If you fear making the beholder too deadly, let it use its rays against those who have good chances to avoid the damage - disintegrate the barbarian, charm the Mystic Theurge.
Arganis 01-16-07, 12:47 PM	Man, that beholder is toast. Burnt toast.
Penchant_Conjurer 01-16-07, 08:08 PM	Round 1: fighters destroy the dispel magic eye. Round 1.2: Spell Thief trys to steal something cool from the beholder (if he is high enough level to do spell like abilities.) Round 1.5: Spell casters who are holding readied actions blast the beholder into next week. Round 2: Party looks at you expectantly and asks, "Is that it?" I would have several beholder kin waiting in the wings just in case this scenario proves accurate.
Necrosis 01-16-07, 08:23 PM	The lords of madness has some excellent advice ofr how to run beholder fights and how to fight them as PC's. For PC's -go anti magic shell + heavy ranged. Beholders-use the terrain/fly and distigrate (e.g. drop the roof on them).
jon19920202 01-16-07, 11:16 PM	If they do kill it in a first couple of rounds and they haven’t been hurt badly have a bunch of mini ones attack them. From experience, I think that lots of smaller CR monsters are much better for large groups.;)
Penchant_Conjurer 01-16-07, 11:25 PM	Don't forget that Beholders can use magic items. Start with a staff of force. Since the beholder has disintegrate at will he has no problems with using gratuitous walls of force. Divide the party and conquer! THey should have disintegrate at their levels so you don't have to provide it to them. ALso Lords of Madness, as mentioned above, is an excellent resource. You will move from beholders to undead beholders with glee. Then Aboleths and mind flayers. Just lay the book onthe table before your players and ask, "What are your saves again?"
Myrddin Wyllt 01-17-07, 02:05 AM	I gotta chime in with Arganis and WCH. This party is waaaaay too powerful to be fighting one CR 13 and expect any real challenge. The barbarian and the soulknife combined can do well in excess of this creatures HP total in a round, if they both manage full melee attacks. If they both get the drop on the beholder at close range, he's toast before he can even bat an eye (pun intended). Bottom line, this encounter needs to be augmented with some beholder-kin, or some kind of eye-themed creatures. I like umber hulks, just advance them a few HD and max their HP for these encounters. Their confusion ability is particularly effective against melee types, which inevitably end up toe to toe with the umby. Fighters that attack party members are just funny. Remember, too, that a beholder is a friggin' genius. It didn't get to live this long or gather a huge Pile o' Treasure (TM) by sitting around picking its non-existent nose. It should have contingency plans for dealing with annoying high level parties, and should have Plenty o' Traps (also TM) and other delaying/misdirecting tricks prepared for their sorry butts. Combine that with a healthy assortment of minions, both of the many-eyed variety and the more mundane (all the better to spy on you in town with, see...) in appearance. Anything you feel needs souping up a bit, give it a few levels of rogue for that good ol' stabbity in the back. Planned properly, this could be an excellent challenge even for an overloaded party of higher ELs. Hell, planned properly, you can run a bunch of 20th level supermen around like first-graders, and have them jumping at shadows and killing everyone except for Him That Deserves It (once again, TM). Do nothing, and you and they will both be disappointed by this encounter.
Yokomohoyo 01-17-07, 03:43 AM	beholders are quite fun and chalanging but not soo hard as to have such a large party not being able to take just one down... you might want to up the chalenge abit... might want to toss in some sort of guards since beholders are known to dominate and take other races as slaves...
Arganis 01-17-07, 09:51 AM	Remember, too, that a beholder is a friggin' genius. Myrd raises another good point in contrast to Cifer's suggestion. Beholders are not dumb. There is no reason--zero, zilch, nada--that a single beholder would try and stand its ground against these heavy hitters, much less target the least-vulnerable among them. I run a game with 4 players, all of them driving straight-classed level 11 characters: Fighter, Cleric, Ranger, Bard. They would completely destroy a single beholder without blinking. 2 rounds, tops, with no preparation whatsoever. Any beholder worth his salt is going to be aware of and protective of his weaknesses, not the least of which is: Beholders are stupid, useless sacks of HP. They are statted extremely poorly with respect to the fear they should illicit and the challenge they should warrant. The only way to make a beholder a viable enemy at only CR +2 from the party's ECL is to give it the intelligence it deserves and have it be utterly prepared for all eventualities. That means through some means it should acquire: Wind Wall (vs. ranger-style ranged damage output) Spell Resistance/Immunity/etc. (vs. this party's high magic ranged damage output) Brooch of Shielding (vs. Magic Missile specifically) Stoneskin Some form of battlefield control (Wall of Force, Entangle, whatever) As well as the aforementioned traps and minions. Honestly, if the PCs can't outthink the Beholder ahead of time, then when they end up in combat with it they should be expecting an EL ~16 that involves multiple at least 1 CR 10-13 in addition to the Beholder as well as multiple CR 8-10s. Then they would have something to prepare for. Now, regarding how to get the party prepared, you should use the skill system. Gather Information, Knowledge (Local), Diplomacy checks vs. former prisoners of the beholder's minions, etc. Give them hard information that alludes to the existence of some kind of aberrant magical master and helps them negotiate the beholder's outer defenses in such a way that by the time they get to the beholder they are not knee-deep in its trap. If they still dive in without preparing, then they could pay dearly.
Epicweaver 01-18-07, 08:57 AM	Thanks for all the great advice, sorry for not responding quicker... I had a nasty stomach bug the last few days.
Arganis 01-18-07, 09:32 AM	Thanks for all the great advice, sorry for not responding quicker... I had a nasty stomach bug the last few days. Glad you're feeling better, man. :)