Beholder tactics question.... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Beholder tactics question.... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Duvanok
06-17-05, 03:47 PM The pcs are going up against a beholder next session. Having never run a beholder before I have a few questions to make sure I am doing things fairly.

1. The MM says the beholder can only aim 3 eye rays at targets in any 90 degree arc. Does this mean if all 4 pc's group together only three of them will be targeted with an eye ray?

2. It also states that firing the eye rays is a free action for a beholder. Why then can't a beholder use a move action to rotate 360 degrees and fire off all of his eye rays at a single target?

3. I guess this question pertains to all creatures with a fly speed, something I have been meaning to ask for a while. . .
A beholder has a fly speed of 20, is this treated just like regular movement for the puposes of running? For example can a beholder "run" at x4 movement and fly 80 feet as a full round action.

Thanks.
Burgundy Lotus
06-17-05, 05:03 PM 1 - if each eye ray effects only one target, then yes if all target seperate people. If they affect multiple targets then people could be effected however the numbers work out

2 - Where does it say they can't?

3 - I'd like to know for sure too.
Galaktia
06-17-05, 05:43 PM 1. from what you have said, you could target all three rays at a single target,

2. LEGAL

3. there is no rule against running or "pounding your wings hard" while flying, however in some situations this may be limited, remember to slow down and speed up depending on manvuveability takes certain distances.
Quarsian
06-17-05, 06:03 PM I'll address number 3, since that is the only one that I feel hasn't been adequately addressed.

I'm pretty sure it is DMs call on this one. Personally, I'd rule that it could not 'run' and could only do a double move.

there is no rule against running or "pounding your wings hard" while flying

Exactly. But let's remember that wings are anatomical features, and that they can regulate speed through variation of their use. A Beholder doesn't have wings or any non-magical means of flying. It simply hovers around. In a campaign I play in, the DM made the ruling that I can't 'run' while flying (under the effects of a fly spell), whereas something like a dragon could because it has the ability to exert itself.

Remember, running for too long forces a Constitution check. This Con check wouldn't apply for anything being magically propelled, since it isn't physically exerting itself. Hence, I'd rule that a Beholder can't 'run' while hovering.
Terraneaux
06-17-05, 08:11 PM A beholder's flight is an extraordinary ability, not a supernatural one. So it works in amf etc.

here are some things to keep in mind when using beholders:

The AMF behaves like a cone; it can start from any intersection of two lines on a combat grid anywhere touching one of the squares a beholder occupies. Sometimes, like when it is grappled, it is beneficial to turn the amf on itself. Furthermore, it can turn its amf on and off as a free action once per round. A cool trick is to fire off all your rays as free actions, then ready an action to open the eye if someone is throwing spells at you.

In general, the rays you want to throw at the first target you see are finger of death, disentegrate, and flesh to stone. However, a beholder is smart enough to identify certain targets as probably having a weak will save and hitting them with charm person/monster. While they probably won't throw in on the side of the beholder, this will probably prevent them from taking hostile action.

The one thing that a beholder should try to avoid at all costs are targets protected by an anitmagic field. It more or less can't hurt them, and if there are some competent bowmen in the group, the beholder is toast unless he can get away. About the only thing it can do is fling rocks at them with its telekinesis ray (or bite, but that could go poorly).
Duvanok
06-18-05, 01:48 AM :bump:
Maerdash
06-18-05, 01:59 AM Ahhh Beholders the 2nd most dangerous enemy in the game, next to mindflayers of course.
Anyway you have to be careful with beholders, a smart beholder is going to start out 150' away from the party if possible and not many parties will survive long enough to close that distance considering one player a round will likely be dead, charmed, charmed again, fleeing, stone, or suffering massive damage. Even when you start a combat fairly close the beholder's shear number of attacks means that at least one party member is likely to suffer in bad ways. Just my opinion but I don't recommend focusing all of the eyes on a single character since the character is almost garaunteed to fail at least one crucial save and nobody likes it when they don't have a chance.
Duvanok
06-18-05, 02:18 AM Hmmm. . . perhaps I am not being clear here. . .

I basically just want to know if a Beholder can attack with all his eye rays in one round if the pcs are grouped together. It's that whole "can only focus three eye rays in one 90 degree arc" thing that has got me confused. And I don't want to do a TPK this sunday, but at the same time I don't want it to be a cake walk either. The pcs know what they are up against, it should be hard, but I don't want to misinterpret the rules and consequently kill them all.
Neo_Leviathan
06-18-05, 06:04 AM I would say that the beholder could definitely fire all it's eye rays at one target by rotating and firing, I dare say that the 90 degrees thing is mostly in there for if the beholder is say, tied to the ground, unable to move, or wanting to hold it's antimagic eye on a single target.

As to the running while flying, I'm sure I can remember reading somewhere that if you have a movement rate, you can always charge, run or etc with that speed. For Eg, something with a burrow speed could double move, or run while burrowing, as could a flying creature. However, the wording of some spells is "Allows the target to fly at 90 feet per round" NOT "the target gains a fly speed of 90 feet" see the difference?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Duvanok 06-17-05, 03:47 PM	The pcs are going up against a beholder next session. Having never run a beholder before I have a few questions to make sure I am doing things fairly. 1. The MM says the beholder can only aim 3 eye rays at targets in any 90 degree arc. Does this mean if all 4 pc's group together only three of them will be targeted with an eye ray? 2. It also states that firing the eye rays is a free action for a beholder. Why then can't a beholder use a move action to rotate 360 degrees and fire off all of his eye rays at a single target? 3. I guess this question pertains to all creatures with a fly speed, something I have been meaning to ask for a while. . . A beholder has a fly speed of 20, is this treated just like regular movement for the puposes of running? For example can a beholder "run" at x4 movement and fly 80 feet as a full round action. Thanks.
Burgundy Lotus 06-17-05, 05:03 PM	1 - if each eye ray effects only one target, then yes if all target seperate people. If they affect multiple targets then people could be effected however the numbers work out 2 - Where does it say they can't? 3 - I'd like to know for sure too.
Galaktia 06-17-05, 05:43 PM	1. from what you have said, you could target all three rays at a single target, 2. LEGAL 3. there is no rule against running or "pounding your wings hard" while flying, however in some situations this may be limited, remember to slow down and speed up depending on manvuveability takes certain distances.
Quarsian 06-17-05, 06:03 PM	I'll address number 3, since that is the only one that I feel hasn't been adequately addressed. I'm pretty sure it is DMs call on this one. Personally, I'd rule that it could not 'run' and could only do a double move. there is no rule against running or "pounding your wings hard" while flying Exactly. But let's remember that wings are anatomical features, and that they can regulate speed through variation of their use. A Beholder doesn't have wings or any non-magical means of flying. It simply hovers around. In a campaign I play in, the DM made the ruling that I can't 'run' while flying (under the effects of a fly spell), whereas something like a dragon could because it has the ability to exert itself. Remember, running for too long forces a Constitution check. This Con check wouldn't apply for anything being magically propelled, since it isn't physically exerting itself. Hence, I'd rule that a Beholder can't 'run' while hovering.
Terraneaux 06-17-05, 08:11 PM	A beholder's flight is an extraordinary ability, not a supernatural one. So it works in amf etc. here are some things to keep in mind when using beholders: The AMF behaves like a cone; it can start from any intersection of two lines on a combat grid anywhere touching one of the squares a beholder occupies. Sometimes, like when it is grappled, it is beneficial to turn the amf on itself. Furthermore, it can turn its amf on and off as a free action once per round. A cool trick is to fire off all your rays as free actions, then ready an action to open the eye if someone is throwing spells at you. In general, the rays you want to throw at the first target you see are finger of death, disentegrate, and flesh to stone. However, a beholder is smart enough to identify certain targets as probably having a weak will save and hitting them with charm person/monster. While they probably won't throw in on the side of the beholder, this will probably prevent them from taking hostile action. The one thing that a beholder should try to avoid at all costs are targets protected by an anitmagic field. It more or less can't hurt them, and if there are some competent bowmen in the group, the beholder is toast unless he can get away. About the only thing it can do is fling rocks at them with its telekinesis ray (or bite, but that could go poorly).
Duvanok 06-18-05, 01:48 AM	:bump:
Maerdash 06-18-05, 01:59 AM	Ahhh Beholders the 2nd most dangerous enemy in the game, next to mindflayers of course. Anyway you have to be careful with beholders, a smart beholder is going to start out 150' away from the party if possible and not many parties will survive long enough to close that distance considering one player a round will likely be dead, charmed, charmed again, fleeing, stone, or suffering massive damage. Even when you start a combat fairly close the beholder's shear number of attacks means that at least one party member is likely to suffer in bad ways. Just my opinion but I don't recommend focusing all of the eyes on a single character since the character is almost garaunteed to fail at least one crucial save and nobody likes it when they don't have a chance.
Duvanok 06-18-05, 02:18 AM	Hmmm. . . perhaps I am not being clear here. . . I basically just want to know if a Beholder can attack with all his eye rays in one round if the pcs are grouped together. It's that whole "can only focus three eye rays in one 90 degree arc" thing that has got me confused. And I don't want to do a TPK this sunday, but at the same time I don't want it to be a cake walk either. The pcs know what they are up against, it should be hard, but I don't want to misinterpret the rules and consequently kill them all.
Neo_Leviathan 06-18-05, 06:04 AM	I would say that the beholder could definitely fire all it's eye rays at one target by rotating and firing, I dare say that the 90 degrees thing is mostly in there for if the beholder is say, tied to the ground, unable to move, or wanting to hold it's antimagic eye on a single target. As to the running while flying, I'm sure I can remember reading somewhere that if you have a movement rate, you can always charge, run or etc with that speed. For Eg, something with a burrow speed could double move, or run while burrowing, as could a flying creature. However, the wording of some spells is "Allows the target to fly at 90 feet per round" NOT "the target gains a fly speed of 90 feet" see the difference?