Beholder Tactics? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Beholder Tactics? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rogar2465
02-26-07, 01:02 PM Need help, antimagic cone limiting efectiveness of other eyerays.

Rogar
Thomar_of_Uointer
02-26-07, 02:23 PM http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20061028a
Arganis
02-26-07, 02:39 PM That rewrite is just weird:

1) Facing rules are removed nicely, except that now, a beholder can use all of its rays in any direction, instead of 2 in any 1 90 degree arc. That's a considerable power boost.

2) Spellcraft DC 22 for casting inside the main eye cone is absurdly low.
primemover003
02-26-07, 03:29 PM Yeah I'm not a big fan of the Beholder's unofficial update.

Beholders need to stay mobile! Don't stop in one spot or you're toast. The AM eye really only needs to be aimed at spellcasters and it doesn't stop a beholder from using it's TK eye to throw objects into the cone... A smart beholder has stacks of small boulders, spiked iron balls, or even just the weapons of fallen adventurers in piles so it can us TK on foes. Disintegrate portions of the ceiling to fall on adventurers. Hit Archers with Slow!
RK)13
02-26-07, 04:15 PM I think that the Beholder's biggest advantage is often its most overlooked ability: natural levitation. If you can move combat into the third dimension, it will help the Beholder's survivability. Basically, make it's lair a very large cave (200 ft. plus high). Have the Beholder hover outside of the party's viewing range (outside of low-light, torchlight, and darkvision) and throw rocks at the characters, charm the fighters, finger of death the casters, and be a general pain.

Eventually, the party will either douse their light, cast light and continual flame on arrows and shoot them, or attempt to fly to the beholder. The first one is OK for the Beholder, as it has darkvision and can cluster bomb the general area with rocks. The second can be extinguished by the antimagic cone, but will take time, which gives the party the chance to do some damage. The third is perhaps the most entertaining, as the beholder could use its antimagic effect to dispel the flight of the characters coming towards it. I am sure the party could come up with a thousand other ways to combat the scenario.
Thubby
02-26-07, 04:24 PM the biggest thing that makes a beholder powerful is proper targeting, charm the fighter, fort or die the mages, tk the rogues to keep them out of flank positioning.
and for the love of cthulu (you knw you love him:D) stay in the air!
rogar2465
02-26-07, 04:40 PM Thanks, I'm not sure I like the update either.
I guess my maine problem before was my not closing with the pc's. If I corner the spell casters and Slow,fear,sleep,stone.....everyone else, my beholder will be much more of a chalenge.

Rogar
toriel
02-26-07, 04:47 PM Have you thought of having the Beholder close it's AM eye?
That way he can use the others and open it again as a free action if necessary.
Thubby
02-26-07, 04:56 PM Have you thought of having the Beholder close it's AM eye?
That way he can use the others and open it again as a free action if necessary.

he only gets to chose open or closed once per round, on its turn, its in the beholder entry. but if you work it right, it can fire its rays unhindered, but can have its AM cone out somtimes
rogar2465
02-26-07, 05:55 PM Thats my whole problem, I want to suppress magic to keep him in the fight longer, but his attacks are magic.
I figure I need to concentrate on one or two spellcasters, but keep the others out of the AM area.

Rogar
Millennium
02-26-07, 06:28 PM Thats my whole problem, I want to suppress magic to keep him in the fight longer, but his attacks are magic.
I figure I need to concentrate on one or two spellcasters, but keep the others out of the AM area.
More or less. If at all possible, get between the casters and the melee fighters. Focus your central eye on the casters to keep them from being able to do too much, and wail on the noncasters with your eye rays. The casters might try to bonk you with a staff or something while you're doing this, but you should be able to withstand that without too much trouble.

Once the melee fighters are out of the way, keep the casters in your AM cone and bite them to death. It takes longer, but it's tasty.
Millennium
02-26-07, 06:35 PM Obviously, if you're fighting against a beholder, you want to take the opposite approach: stay together. A beholder lacks area attacks, so it will still hit the same number of targets no matter what formation you use. The melee combatants don't really suffer much in the way of penalties from the AM cone, and the beholder can't cast into it, so you use spellcaster as bait to keep the AM cone trained on him and have the fighters follow the cone straight to the target.

Meanwhile, keep your casters with a spell readied, with the trigger being "just after the beholder closes its central eye." That way if the beholder shuts down its AM cone to attack the fighters, you can punish it with a damaging (or otherwise nasty) spell effect.

In any case, a beholder is an enemy that you do not want to face in a game with called shots. Or if you must, then don't use them, and in particular don't attack the central eye. A beholder without its antimagic cone is arguably more dangerous: it can't nullify casters, but its easily-identifiable weak point -a spot where you're safe from its eye rays- is gone.
CharlieRock
02-26-07, 06:37 PM Complete Guide to Beholders (http://www.goodman-games.com/3004preview.php) has some interesting variant beholders. Plus tactics tips (not too different from what has been posted), maps to lairs, and the Eyekin Cultists stats (beholder culties). :cool:
PenderGrass
02-26-07, 07:59 PM Beholders have a really good bite attack - I mean look at all those images of it with a gaping maw.

They should be able to eat 1 adventurer per round.

Er, okay, maybe not.

:dragon:
****
swallowyersoul
02-27-07, 01:08 AM two words that struck fear into my players' hearts last campaign:

aquatic beholders.

i am a bad, bad man.
Boraxe
02-27-07, 11:55 AM 10 unleash hell
20 goto 10
Milandros
02-27-07, 01:07 PM Remember the beholder is fearsomely smart. Once he looks like he might be in some danger, bang, he disintegrates a section of wall - behind which is a tunnel upwards, which curves round his cavern back tothe other side. If a spellcaster follows him, then it's anti-magic time, enjoy the falling damage... otherwise, a few rounds - or minutes - later (after party buff spells have worn off, perhaps), bang, another wall disappears followed by the usual charm, flesh to stone and so on. Terrain can make a smart beholder truly deadly.

Bridges over canyons are nasty too. Disintegrate the bridge the PCs are standing on, disintegrate the top part of the stalactite over their heads, disintegrate the block holding back the carefully TK-stacked boulder pile...

Play the beholder as if it were a PC (in terms of cunning and smartness) and it it becomes a nightmare.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rogar2465 02-26-07, 01:02 PM	Need help, antimagic cone limiting efectiveness of other eyerays. Rogar
Thomar_of_Uointer 02-26-07, 02:23 PM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20061028a
Arganis 02-26-07, 02:39 PM	That rewrite is just weird: 1) Facing rules are removed nicely, except that now, a beholder can use all of its rays in any direction, instead of 2 in any 1 90 degree arc. That's a considerable power boost. 2) Spellcraft DC 22 for casting inside the main eye cone is absurdly low.
primemover003 02-26-07, 03:29 PM	Yeah I'm not a big fan of the Beholder's unofficial update. Beholders need to stay mobile! Don't stop in one spot or you're toast. The AM eye really only needs to be aimed at spellcasters and it doesn't stop a beholder from using it's TK eye to throw objects into the cone... A smart beholder has stacks of small boulders, spiked iron balls, or even just the weapons of fallen adventurers in piles so it can us TK on foes. Disintegrate portions of the ceiling to fall on adventurers. Hit Archers with Slow!
RK)13 02-26-07, 04:15 PM	I think that the Beholder's biggest advantage is often its most overlooked ability: natural levitation. If you can move combat into the third dimension, it will help the Beholder's survivability. Basically, make it's lair a very large cave (200 ft. plus high). Have the Beholder hover outside of the party's viewing range (outside of low-light, torchlight, and darkvision) and throw rocks at the characters, charm the fighters, finger of death the casters, and be a general pain. Eventually, the party will either douse their light, cast light and continual flame on arrows and shoot them, or attempt to fly to the beholder. The first one is OK for the Beholder, as it has darkvision and can cluster bomb the general area with rocks. The second can be extinguished by the antimagic cone, but will take time, which gives the party the chance to do some damage. The third is perhaps the most entertaining, as the beholder could use its antimagic effect to dispel the flight of the characters coming towards it. I am sure the party could come up with a thousand other ways to combat the scenario.
Thubby 02-26-07, 04:24 PM	the biggest thing that makes a beholder powerful is proper targeting, charm the fighter, fort or die the mages, tk the rogues to keep them out of flank positioning. and for the love of cthulu (you knw you love him:D) stay in the air!
rogar2465 02-26-07, 04:40 PM	Thanks, I'm not sure I like the update either. I guess my maine problem before was my not closing with the pc's. If I corner the spell casters and Slow,fear,sleep,stone.....everyone else, my beholder will be much more of a chalenge. Rogar
toriel 02-26-07, 04:47 PM	Have you thought of having the Beholder close it's AM eye? That way he can use the others and open it again as a free action if necessary.
Thubby 02-26-07, 04:56 PM	Have you thought of having the Beholder close it's AM eye? That way he can use the others and open it again as a free action if necessary. he only gets to chose open or closed once per round, on its turn, its in the beholder entry. but if you work it right, it can fire its rays unhindered, but can have its AM cone out somtimes
rogar2465 02-26-07, 05:55 PM	Thats my whole problem, I want to suppress magic to keep him in the fight longer, but his attacks are magic. I figure I need to concentrate on one or two spellcasters, but keep the others out of the AM area. Rogar
Millennium 02-26-07, 06:28 PM	Thats my whole problem, I want to suppress magic to keep him in the fight longer, but his attacks are magic. I figure I need to concentrate on one or two spellcasters, but keep the others out of the AM area. More or less. If at all possible, get between the casters and the melee fighters. Focus your central eye on the casters to keep them from being able to do too much, and wail on the noncasters with your eye rays. The casters might try to bonk you with a staff or something while you're doing this, but you should be able to withstand that without too much trouble. Once the melee fighters are out of the way, keep the casters in your AM cone and bite them to death. It takes longer, but it's tasty.
Millennium 02-26-07, 06:35 PM	Obviously, if you're fighting against a beholder, you want to take the opposite approach: stay together. A beholder lacks area attacks, so it will still hit the same number of targets no matter what formation you use. The melee combatants don't really suffer much in the way of penalties from the AM cone, and the beholder can't cast into it, so you use spellcaster as bait to keep the AM cone trained on him and have the fighters follow the cone straight to the target. Meanwhile, keep your casters with a spell readied, with the trigger being "just after the beholder closes its central eye." That way if the beholder shuts down its AM cone to attack the fighters, you can punish it with a damaging (or otherwise nasty) spell effect. In any case, a beholder is an enemy that you do not want to face in a game with called shots. Or if you must, then don't use them, and in particular don't attack the central eye. A beholder without its antimagic cone is arguably more dangerous: it can't nullify casters, but its easily-identifiable weak point -a spot where you're safe from its eye rays- is gone.
CharlieRock 02-26-07, 06:37 PM	Complete Guide to Beholders (http://www.goodman-games.com/3004preview.php) has some interesting variant beholders. Plus tactics tips (not too different from what has been posted), maps to lairs, and the Eyekin Cultists stats (beholder culties). :cool:
PenderGrass 02-26-07, 07:59 PM	Beholders have a really good bite attack - I mean look at all those images of it with a gaping maw. They should be able to eat 1 adventurer per round. Er, okay, maybe not. :dragon: ****
swallowyersoul 02-27-07, 01:08 AM	two words that struck fear into my players' hearts last campaign: aquatic beholders. i am a bad, bad man.
Boraxe 02-27-07, 11:55 AM	10 unleash hell 20 goto 10
Milandros 02-27-07, 01:07 PM	Remember the beholder is fearsomely smart. Once he looks like he might be in some danger, bang, he disintegrates a section of wall - behind which is a tunnel upwards, which curves round his cavern back tothe other side. If a spellcaster follows him, then it's anti-magic time, enjoy the falling damage... otherwise, a few rounds - or minutes - later (after party buff spells have worn off, perhaps), bang, another wall disappears followed by the usual charm, flesh to stone and so on. Terrain can make a smart beholder truly deadly. Bridges over canyons are nasty too. Disintegrate the bridge the PCs are standing on, disintegrate the top part of the stalactite over their heads, disintegrate the block holding back the carefully TK-stacked boulder pile... Play the beholder as if it were a PC (in terms of cunning and smartness) and it it becomes a nightmare.