Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PaladinKD 02-24-05, 05:33 PM	Big fight tonight - did a quick search but wasn't coming up with anything. Quick question. Can someone being pinned make an attack? from SRD: ...On your turn, you can try to escape the pin by making an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. The above "in place of an attack" text would seem to say that you can, but in the past I never saw it that way. What's the verdict?
quaiven 02-24-05, 05:43 PM	Pinned: Held immobile (but not helpless) in a grapple. Someone who is immobile is generally not allowed to attack. (but not helpless) I think that mainly refers to CDG and SA, so someone pinned isn't vulnerable to those.
aaron3579 02-24-05, 05:55 PM	I am not sure of the current rule, but I want to say that the rule used to be that you could only attack with certain weapons, namely: daggers, knives, and perhaps a few others that I am leaving out. Really can be a common sense call, I guess... I try not to get so caught up in narrowly defined specific terms. For instance, to me, an attack represents everything included in an attempt to inflict physical injury. I don't think of it so much as a single swing, or a lone stabbing motion, but all of the things that lead up to the actual connection of a blow. So even though a character may be pinned and "immobile," he may still be able to make an attempt to inflict a wound upon his enemy with a small enough weapon. This, to my thinking, includes freeing your arm, overcoming the strength of your enemy, and landing a blow. Think "Saving Private Ryan," when the German soldier slowly stabbed his enemy to death whilst locked in a grapple.
adnauseum 02-24-05, 06:04 PM	This, to my thinking, includes freeing your arm, overcoming the strength of your enemy, and landing a blow. Not to be contrary, as I'm rather new to the forums and have no desire to awaken the flame breathing dragon, but wouldn't freeing your arm constitute breaking the pin? The way I normally conduct grapples, is when you are pinned, you are just that...pinned, immobile. If you ever watch greco-roman wrestling, or any other non-televised collegiate wrestling, you will see exactly what 'pin' is. From what I've witnessed, someone in the throes of a full pin would LOVE to be able to attack the guy pinning him, but he is unable...because he is..pinned. First you must extricate yourself from the pin with an opposed grapple check, which downgrades your 'grappled condition' to grappled, meaning you are still grappling, but no longer immobile, and therefore ready to attack with a readied weapon or natural weapon provided it meets the requirements of a weapon capable of striking in a grapple. That's just how I run it, not to say it's 100% correct, but it worked when I did it.
Wizard 02-24-05, 06:13 PM	The "in place of an attack" clause is to define how long it takes you. If you have three attacks, you can break out of your pin with one, pin the other guy with another, and damage him with another. You can't actually make an attack when pinned. Adnauseum shouldn't fear the flame dragon. :)
Super Guy 02-24-05, 06:42 PM	That's weird wording. Personally, I would just take it as "in place of his regular attack action" because he wouldn't be able to attack if he was totally pinned. Just curious, can you attempt to break the grapple multiple times during your round, or just once? Personally, I think it turns grapple worthless if you can do it mutliple times, since your odds of getting out are phenomenal.
aaron3579 02-24-05, 07:20 PM	First you must extricate yourself from the pin with an opposed grapple check, which downgrades your 'grappled condition' to grappled, meaning you are still grappling, but no longer immobile, and therefore ready to attack with a readied weapon or natural weapon provided it meets the requirements of a weapon capable of striking in a grapple. That's just how I run it, not to say it's 100% correct, but it worked when I did it. Ow, my head. :doh: Your way sounds more true to the rules, and more realistic to boot. More complicated too, but a lot of DMs really dig that stuff. I on the other hand, feel completely out of my element when handling more than the most basic combat rules (I'm scientifically retarded; my spatial thinking sucks the big one). If it were me, I would probably just modify his attack roll based on his strength compared to that of his opponent, and leave it alone.
primemover003 02-24-05, 07:26 PM	You can make one grapple check per normal attack you have. A grapple check can be used to do a laundry list of things... If you're pinned you have to break the pin before you can do anything else (unless it's a purely mental action).