Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wiljoebob808 11-21-07, 07:16 PM	Last night during a game I was running... My players were in a wizard tower in Waterdeep, bringing an unknown item they discovered to a wizard. It was a sphere of annihilation (spelling?), with a spell on it to keep it from annihilating things. The spell was wearing off. They brought it to a "big shot" wizard. He freaks out, telling them to go down into the lower levels of the tower to recover the tailsman... but doesn't tell the PC's why he needs it (or what the sphere is.) One of the party members shoots back... "Why can't you go get it yourself with your powerful wizards?" I had no answer. Then when I explained there are some monsters/traps down there to gaurd the magical items, the same character asks "Why would you build it so it's dangerous for you to retrieve the items you need?" I had no answer again... Soon after, I told them we put a pretty small dragon down there years ago to gaurd the main vault... and they ask for a note from me to tell the dragon they're friendly. I had no choice but to write them the note... And now my last encounter is toast. What should I do? I can't keep up with them putting me on the spot all the time... Thanks, wjb808
False-paradox-Truth 11-21-07, 07:29 PM	Well, You probably should have told them about the orb and the spell wearing off. That would have allowed the wizard to stay behind and "contain" the magic of the sphere for a little while longer. As for the little dragon down in the cellar, you could have just said that it was a new acquisition. The thing hadn’t been tamed yet, so the party has to kill it to get to the goods. If the party went on to ask "can't we just dispose of it?" just say "THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TIME!!!" The problem you got is that your players can't suspend disbelief. Frankly, there's only one thing you can do: make the whole campaign world make sense. When designing an adventure, there has to be a reason for everything. So there's a dragon in the bottom of the tower: Why? The wizard doesn't have time to help the petty party find the magical orb: Why? Just keep asking why every time you write an adventure. Once you have a logical framework, you can readily answer player questions. Not only will this shut them up, it'll make everything much more coherent and make a better campaign.
Talisman 11-21-07, 07:30 PM	I'm guessing you're fairly new to GMing. First off, welcome! It's a challenging but rewarding profession. Honestly, your players are raising valid points (which is why do didn't have an easy answer for them). The best solution is to consider things like this when you craft your adventures...Why must the players do this? Why can't the NPC wizards do it for them? Of course, you can never prepare for everything a devious party will come up with, which is why ad libbing and improvisation are indespensible to a GM. If you haven't finished this adventure yet, let the party find the dragon...dead. Hacked apart. Something gated into the dungeon and killed the dragon, and now it's after the talisman as well. What is it? Well, that's up to you. Aberrations from the Far Realm? Demons, devil, daemons, demodands? Elementals? Salmanders? Creatures from the Plane of Shadow? Rival adventurers?
RyndarLocke 11-21-07, 11:05 PM	Last night during a game I was running... My players were in a wizard tower in Waterdeep, bringing an unknown item they discovered to a wizard. It was a sphere of annihilation (spelling?), with a spell on it to keep it from annihilating things. The spell was wearing off. They brought it to a "big shot" wizard. He freaks out, telling them to go down into the lower levels of the tower to recover the tailsman... but doesn't tell the PC's why he needs it (or what the sphere is.) One of the party members shoots back... "Why can't you go get it yourself with your powerful wizards?" I had no answer. Then when I explained there are some monsters/traps down there to gaurd the magical items, the same character asks "Why would you build it so it's dangerous for you to retrieve the items you need?" I had no answer again... Soon after, I told them we put a pretty small dragon down there years ago to gaurd the main vault... and they ask for a note from me to tell the dragon they're friendly. I had no choice but to write them the note... And now my last encounter is toast. What should I do? I can't keep up with them putting me on the spot all the time... Thanks, wjb808 "It will take all of my energies here to contain the destruction of this object, please hurry, I can't hold it much longer." I had hoped I would never need such items again. And, wanted to prevent their falling into the hands of other evil intent creatures." "The note will do you no good, Old Smoke had his vision taken from him by his deity. I found him alone and injured, nursed him to health, and he attacked me. He is half crazed, and unable to even read. I banished him as the perfect guardian unable to use the powerful items, but very capable of protecting them. Greedy are those treasure wanting dragons." You should learn to make stuff up on the fly this whole discussion took me 45 seconds. Good luck.
Mr_Seth 11-21-07, 11:25 PM	Think about motivations and other angles of the plot beforehand - anything they could put you on the spot about. And get really... REALLY good at the art of bee-ess. I'd write it out, but the language filter... y'know. Remember: a bad explanation beats no explanation. When in doubt, take what would be the cliche answer in that situation - and make it a lie covering something else.
wiljoebob808 11-22-07, 01:27 AM	I did say that he couldn't leave this item unattended, etc, but the PC's did have a point... there was a bunch of high level wizards down stairs in the arcane school that were better equipped for the job. I guess I should just think out my plot lines better.
Absynthe_minded21 11-22-07, 01:46 AM	I did say that he couldn't leave this item unattended, etc, but the PC's did have a point... there was a bunch of high level wizards down stairs in the arcane school that were better equipped for the job. I guess I should just think out my plot lines better. Or learn to lie on the spot. A few good ones. -I'm much too busy with important matters to run my own errands. -I could send the entire army, but a small group has a better chance of not attracting too much notice. -Yes I am much more powerful then you and have a much smaller chance of failure, but even a small chance is still a chance and in this case failure means death. -Two words. Rich and Lazy.
kelcimer 11-22-07, 02:12 AM	There generally has to be a reason why the NPCs can't do it themselves. Though I must say it was interesting when after by character became King that the DM looked at me odd when I wanted to hire bands of adventurers to go find particular items. I'm a King! I got important work do do! Now go get that bauble for me. So yeah, genrally there has to be a reason, even if it is that they just don't want to. Note: The important work was making sure I was there so that small problems didn't become huge problems. Getting back from jaunting about to find a problem is now huge when if you had been there it would have been easy to fix gets old really fast. Just keeping my own throne secure is a full time job, even if it means my character doesn't do much.
Lormador 11-22-07, 09:57 AM	If they really start to annoy you, fight fire with fire. Every powerful NPC, when questioned after being caught in an implausible situation, cackles maniacally and shapeshifts to some evil form, either attacking the party or attempting to escape with whatever evil item they just forked over. Just figure they roleplayed a good sense motive check. Fudge the rolls behind the screen and have some good shapeshifting monsters available. They will learn not to ask too many questions after taking a few casualties.
aotrscommander 11-22-07, 10:12 AM	Last night during a game I was running... My players were in a wizard tower in Waterdeep, bringing an unknown item they discovered to a wizard. It was a sphere of annihilation (spelling?), with a spell on it to keep it from annihilating things. The spell was wearing off. They brought it to a "big shot" wizard. He freaks out, telling them to go down into the lower levels of the tower to recover the tailsman... but doesn't tell the PC's why he needs it (or what the sphere is.) One of the party members shoots back... "Why can't you go get it yourself with your powerful wizards?" You are on Faerun. The correct answer is "because I'm a high-level NPC and I'm telling you do it!" or "I don't understand the question." (Faerun being the poster-child and worst offender for questions like that since there are so many high level NPC (e.g. Eliminster) who spend their ENTIRE LIVES doing nothing more than sitting on their fat arses getting low level PCs to do stuff they could do in five seconds flat if they could be arsed.) Alturnatively go all OotS on them and have the wizard explain that all the stuff below there is 8 CR below his level, so he wouldn't get any XP. Failing that, the wizard can say, "hey, okay then guys, I'll go fetch the thingy from the wotsit, myself. You'll able to go and fetch the other thingy from the lair of Demogorgon's fortress of Freakishly Epic Monsters and Arrupt and Horrible Death, won't you? Just I as was planning to go do that myself, seeing as you know, we've got about three hours before it ends the world, but no worries, you guys can handle it, 'kay?" That said, you should always have a reason why stuff needs to be done by the players and not someone else. If you do, the PCs will never, ever ask about it. If you don't they will immediatly pick holes in every slight plot bump with enough attention to detail, zeal and determination that it would be considered A Bit Much by the most devotedly rabid Harry Potter series analysist.
kuonji 11-22-07, 10:53 AM	Adventuring is about reward. I don't generally care why the Super Mega Powerful Wizard Guy wants me to retreive the Enchanted Stick from his basement, if the risk vs. reward is good, I'm willing to plot hook it up and go get it.
SuperGnome 11-22-07, 11:04 AM	Yeah, PC's as errand boy style campaigns can get tricky like that. If I'm running one I'll have some reason the BGG is busy with the larger picture, but needs the PC's for a specific task. When it's off the cuff like that it's tricky. Indeed, why would some wizard have their basement all trapped up with no means of getting around it? Even if you argue "the Wiz can but nobody else can," don't you think he'd have some contingency for this? If the place makes sense, this wouldn't be an issue. I'd argue this talisman itself is unstable, and just as evil as it is good. Wizzo locked it down there for good, even from himself should his will fail and he choose to use it for his personal gain (possibly due to it's corrupting force, thank you Tolkien).
Bob Loblaw 11-22-07, 11:12 AM	You could have one of your NPCs respond with something like: "I understand that you don't feel up to the task and do not need the reward waiting for you at the end. No problem, this world is full of adventurers, I'll hire someone else more suited to the job. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I have to leave now." Essentially, fire them from the job and see what happens next. Maybe throw in some hints that an evil party now seeks the sphere and is going to be paid handsomely for it as well. Now they have some rivals and the same mission to go on that you wrote already.
Talisman 11-22-07, 11:24 AM	If they really start to annoy you, fight fire with fire. Every powerful NPC, when questioned after being caught in an implausible situation, cackles maniacally and shapeshifts to some evil form, either attacking the party or attempting to escape with whatever evil item they just forked over. Just figure they roleplayed a good sense motive check. Fudge the rolls behind the screen and have some good shapeshifting monsters available. They will learn not to ask too many questions after taking a few casualties. "Don't you dare question me! I'm the GM! Arrrghh!" Seriously, that's a pretty lame idea. Avoid using logic by sheer firepower? Kill the PCs if they dare question your story? :sigh: I'd argue this talisman itself is unstable, and just as evil as it is good. Who you callin' unstable?!
Lormador 11-22-07, 01:37 PM	Bah, even on the off chance that one of them dies, they can come back. I didn't say use a Destruction spell on them or anything. Besides, seriously dude, I was joking! Is there anything wrong with a random Doppleganger attack, really? They always seem random anyway!
Talisman 11-22-07, 02:19 PM	Bah, even on the off chance that one of them dies, they can come back. I didn't say use a Destruction spell on them or anything. Besides, seriously dude, I was joking! Hard to tell when people are joking without hearing their voices/seeing their faces. FWIW, I think that could be a great plot hook, used sparingly..."Thanks for the artifact...fools! Now, to blot out the sun!" {turns into a balor and flies away}