Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DM142 05-22-07, 12:12 AM	Hi everyone! I'm working up an adventure for my group of 7 PCs with an average level of 12. I run a very undead-heavy campaign and its time to bring it home to the PCs. I'm planning on having an undead army besiege their hometown and base of operations. I'd like to structure the adventure similar to what's described in the Heroes of Battle sourcebook (if you're familiar with that). I'm also drawing inspiration from the "Foundations of Flame" adventure in Dungeon 113 (part of the Shackled City Adventure Path) and "Tides of Dread" in Dungeon 143 (part of the Savage Tides Adventure Path). So, what I'm looking for is a number of non-linear encounters I can sprinkle throughout the session that will reflect the chaos of battle. I also would like at least some of the encounters to contribute significantly to the outcome of the overall battle (I may try using the Victory Point system in Heroes of Battle, but I'm not sure... any one have an input regarding this?). Here's a list of possible encounters I've come up with so far (and I'd love to hear yours!): -Foil assassination attempt against allied commander -Rescue citizens from rampaging undead (looking for unique ideas here... something to challenge 12-13th level PCs) -Harass enemy infantry/cavalry -Assassinate an enemy commander -Sabotage an enemy siege engine -Rescue POWs -Sabotage Armored Personnel Carriers (some undead will arrive in large, hollowed out undead beetles... check out Brom's illustration in the 2nd ed. Dark Sun source book Dragon Kings [p32] for what these baddies look like!) -Fight roving units of undead within the city -Heal citizens suffering from disease and stop the further spread (spread by ghouls, etc.) I'm also looking for cool ideas for an undead army (like the aforementioned undead beelte APCs). What other insidious machinations might they employ? And then, of course, how what creative ways would an organized military city come up with to defend themselves? Any and all help would be appreciated! Thanks in advance!
Rerecros 05-22-07, 12:34 AM	-Rescue POWs Undead armies tend not to take prisoners, unless they intent to hold them for ransom or torture them for information. They otherwise kill everything, and scoop up the corpses to gain new recruits. Esential to any well built undead army are clerics. Through use of rebuking and animate dead, they control masses of mindless undead. if you kill any clerics, ALL undead undead their control will either do nothing or attack whatever is closest to them, including allies. Incorporeal undead are the ultimate surveillance system. A real world medieval tactic is to catapult rotting carcases into the fortress, and let their enemies get sick. And this works with the undead immunity to disease, sickness and nausia.
Redclock_the_Untimely 05-22-07, 03:27 AM	Sounds like you've got a lot of work ahead for the PCs if they want to survive. Now the advice I give is based on my experience in the battle of Brindol from Red Hand of Doom, where the PCs are defending a walled city. First Victory Points are nice in a running battle so that if the PCs are forced to retreat from some encounters they still have a chance to win the day. This is particularly important as their resources are depleted over several encounters with no chance to rest or resupply. Also keep in mind that EL's may be higher for later encounters because of the PCs lack of resources and battle situations can change drastically if the city is burning around them because some PC or ally used burning oil to take out a wave of undead and accidentally started a building on fire too. Then again, undead commanders may decide to burn the city themselves if things go too poorly for them. Some of the encounters can be random or place specific, but others are more dependent on the flow of the battle. The assassination attempt on the defenders might take place earlier if the battle goes badly for the attackers as a way to distract the PCs from a new wave of shock troops at the city gates. If the battle goes well for the attacking force initially, but the PCs turn the tide, the assassination may be a last gasp attempt to demoralize defenders and spur the attackers to victory. Harrying the attacking force outside the city is best done before the defense lines are breached and so is the destruction of siege engines unless they have been brought into the city to assault the keep where the last of the townspeople are held up after the city has mostly fallen. Mass battles can be tricky if you want to show the chaos of it, but are a lot easier when you remember the attackers may have a carefully orchestrated attack plan with waves of underlings and elite shock troops and commanders running the show from the back, only entering the city when all appears over for the defenders. The most important thing to keep in mind is that if you use incorporeal undead and start giving the PCs ability damage the battle will quickly turn in the attacker's favor and may end in TPK if they aren't prepared against it and there is no break in the battle for healing before the next wave arrives. Yeah, that's a lot to read, but still very short for the subject. Sounds like fun, I hope it works out well for the defenders because undead really annoy me, what with the not being affected by critical hits or ability damage and all. :rant:
GoriceXII 05-22-07, 03:49 AM	I will shamelessly present a url to my own campaign which contains an 'adventures' segment that you might find helpful. http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?24252
Radijs 05-22-07, 05:52 AM	Break into a song. (http://www.jonathancoulton.com/songdetails/Re%20Your%20Brains)
Class_A_Infidel 05-22-07, 10:00 AM	Break into a song. (http://www.jonathancoulton.com/songdetails/Re%20Your%20Brains) That was extraordinarily amusing to me. I don't know why. On the subject, I think you need to constantly keep in mind that these are undead. Undead have high CRs, and if you consider that most of the soldiers will be 1st-level, the odds favour the undead. You might want soldiers from another city to come as backup halfway into the battle, or something.
the_Luggage 05-22-07, 10:08 AM	Clerics can repel a lot of the lower level undead right off the bat, so I imagine the cleverer undead generals will account for that and try to minimise it's effect. Also, Darksun Bugdead are supercool. I salute your use of them. I'd love to play that game!
DM142 05-23-07, 04:42 PM	Hey, thanks for all the advice and ideas! It is much appreciated! Undead armies tend not to take prisoners, unless they intent to hold them for ransom or torture them for information. They otherwise kill everything, and scoop up the corpses to gain new recruits Right. However, I'm planning on having vampires be a big part of the attacking force, as the PCs are kind of specialized vampire-hunters. So, I imagine that some of the vamp commanders would order some prisioners taken as food supply. But, yeah, otherwise the slain get reanimated as fresh troops. Here's a question... if an undead, say a skeleton, is destroyed in combat, can a cleric re-reanimate it? Incorporeal undead are the ultimate surveillance system Great idea! The most important thing to keep in mind is that if you use incorporeal undead and start giving the PCs ability damage the battle will quickly turn in the attacker's favor and may end in TPK if they aren't prepared against it and there is no break in the battle for healing before the next wave arrives. Ah... a very good point. Thanks for the tip. In regards to Victory Points, did you have a number of encounters with predetermined VP values established ahead of time? Or did you "wing it?" More specifically, with what criteria do you determine approriate VP values? I will shamelessly present a url to my own campaign which contains an 'adventures' segment that you might find helpful. Wow... this is EXTEREMELY helpful, thank you! Break into a song. Oh, lordy, that's funny! You might want soldiers from another city to come as backup halfway into the battle, or something. Not a bad idea. The city the PCs will help defend is actually the homebase of the army, but perhaps part of the army will have been away when the undead attack. Their return could be the reinforcements the city needs. Also, Darksun Bugdead are supercool. I salute your use of them. Thanks! I really liked the illustration (I'm a big Brom fan), and I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Dark Sun. I like to sneak some Athasian goodness in here and there! Here's the events I have sketched out thus far. Any input would be appreciated! I should start by explaining a bit about the campaign. The PCs are an elite military unit (like Navy SEALS) that is part of a much larger army charged with protecting their country from an undead-infested rift. The rift opend over 700 years ago, and there hasn't been a major undead incursion for several centuries...until now The battle I'm planning is the beginning of a much larger campaign masterminded by the undead leaders to bring the entire human nation under their control. 1. The PCs are sent out to the countryside surrounding a smaller outpost to deal with reports of roving bands of undead. They deal with it. 2. Upon returning to the outpost, they find it besieged by a moderate force of undead. They assist in liberating the outpost. 3. The commander of the outpost recieves word that the main city is besieged. The PCs may take a small unit of soldiers from the outpost and return to the city. 4. Once they get back, they can either choose to fight their way through the undead (or just bypass via teleport) and re-enter the city and help defend it from the inside, or they can remain outside the city walls and harry the undead forces from there. This is where the bulk of the adventure will take place. There it is.
StevenO 05-23-07, 07:14 PM	An army led by Vampires will likely have to operate almost exclusively at night. Many other undead types are affected by sunlight as well. If the players can manage it they may want to see if they can create an early sunrise situation or one that disguises the sunrise making the undead think they have more time than they do. A campain weakness when using light vulnerable undead is that battles will often have to happen at night when the defender have the hardest time seeing but may also leave the hours of daylight relatively safe. You may run the "great cloud" which keeps the undead safe from daylight but then you should also offer the PCs a quest to remove that advantage.
DM142 05-23-07, 07:32 PM	A "great cloud" is an interesting idea... and stopping it would make for a good quest. Thanks!
Oakes 05-23-07, 08:24 PM	For the fun of it, I'll throw out what comes to mind for each of the encounters you have so far. -Foil assassination attempt against allied commander Intelligent, independant undead here is a no-brainer. Ideally, it could be either fast (Dread Wraith with Scout levels), stealthy (Mummified Assassin), or both (Vampire with Shadowdancer levels). Class levels both raise the challenge rating and make it clear that this is a dramatic and dangerous foe the PCs may well encounter again if they don't do something about it now. -Rescue citizens from rampaging undead (looking for unique ideas here... something to challenge 12-13th level PCs) Stopping a large hoard of basic, spread-out undead from killing first-level commoners can be a challenge for any level if it isn't dealt with properly. Just because the heroes show up and kick in the door doesn't mean the monsters within a five-block radius stop slaughtering the innocents. It means the ones in the room do, or they get a whole world of hurt- not much consolation to the people in all the other houses. -Harass enemy infantry/cavalry Whatever those units are, perhaps Ghouls, Ghasts, Skeletons,Wolf Skeletons, and specialist outriders, moving in a naturally screening area. Forests, hills, canyons, caves, whatnot. It will ensure your mid-level PCs don't get the opportunity to completely destroy the threat without your approval, since the army is presumably so numerous and defended. -Assassinate an enemy commander The assassin makes its re-appearance, perhaps? Or a high-level Cleric that's making specialist undead? Perhaps a Dread Necromancer that isn't particularly powerful themself, but brings a significant number with him to the army? -Sabotage an enemy siege engine Undead Giants may serve as siege engines. Or perhaps they're looking for a way to protect the city from incorporeal undead, for whom many defenses are not a problem. -Rescue POWs Particularly potent allies against this host, maybe? Clerics or Wizards slated for nasty sacrifice? -Fight roving units of undead within the city Groups of special, mid-level undead. It's feasible the PCs' death is an objective by now, and some Dread Wraiths or even Nightshades may fit the bill for their extermination. Or perhaps this comes earlier in the form of incorporeal undead, leading to the need to protect against them as if they were siege equipment.
Rerecros 05-23-07, 10:57 PM	Here's a question... if an undead, say a skeleton, is destroyed in combat, can a cleric re-reanimate it? no, undead can't be reanimated, they crumble to dust. There is a Revive undead spell in LM, but it's not cost effective for mindless undead.
DM142 05-23-07, 11:37 PM	Oakes, thanks for the great feedback. I have a pretty sweet undead assassin lined up... in fact its one that at least two of the PCs have run into before, so there will be a nice sense of continuity. She's a sepulchral thief Rogue 5 / Assassin 7... CR 14. She basically kicked their hinders once, so I think the PCs will enjoy another crack at her. Your other suggestions are great. Just the kind of feedback I'm looking for. Thank you kindly. no, undead can't be reanimated, they crumble to dust. There is a Revive undead spell in LM, but it's not cost effective for mindless undead. Thanks. That's what I thought, but I couldn't find it in any source books. This leads me to another question regarding creating undead. The PHB lists two spells that do this: Create Undead and Create Greater Undead. But, there are only eight different types of undead listed. Has anyone created an expanded list anywhere? Or do any of you have any basic suggestions on how to create other forms of undead? Perhaps based on HD or something? Again, many thanks!
BlackWeasel 05-24-07, 02:38 AM	Just throwing some ideas out Protect a convoy of food wagons trying to make it to the city. Destroy corpses in a huge graveyard or necropolis in and area about to be overrun (time limit) Deal with a noble who has joined with the undead.
JacobZ1988 05-24-07, 02:52 AM	Many Undead Clerics will be important in this army. An undead army is invunerable to diesese or hunger, that will be key.
Rerecros 05-24-07, 03:34 AM	This leads me to another question regarding creating undead. The PHB lists two spells that do this: Create Undead and Create Greater Undead. But, there are only eight different types of undead listed. Has anyone created an expanded list anywhere? Or do any of you have any basic suggestions on how to create other forms of undead? Perhaps based on HD or something? Creat undead covers most undead, but create greater undead creates incorporeal or ethereal undead.
GoriceXII 05-24-07, 10:21 AM	The Undead Army (my ideas) 1. Vampires might be more like senior staff than commanders perhaps unless you really do want most of the fights to take place at night. They would also make good assassins and spies. The main problem with vampires from an opponent pov is that they are capable of pretending to be human more easily than most undead. I would capitalize on that. 2. In a game I ran undead constructs existed (stole these from Brian Lumley) that were essentially made up of multiple creatures and therefore could be gigantic, used as gate bashers or artillery throwers. Some were full of air bladders to act as dirigibles. (since death produces gas--nasty but true) 3. Ghouls and ghasts tend to be rather chaotic--in my own game the lich is making them simply to harass and distract. 4. There would probably be logistics type units to gather corpses for making more undead. Some to guard, some to gather, a few more intelligent and lawful undead to assess the bodies.
DM142 05-24-07, 02:22 PM	Some were full of air bladders to act as dirigibles. (since death produces gas--nasty but true) That is nasty. I love it! I don't suppose you can direct me to stats for this (and the other things you mentioned)? Again, thanks all for the ideas and advice! Its helping me out a lot!
GoriceXII 05-24-07, 03:44 PM	Actually I just used stats for gargantua from the MM and gave them undead characteristics as per a zombie but with the gargantua's movement rates and so on. Low intelligence.
DM142 05-26-07, 11:34 AM	I just used stats for gargantua What's a "gargantua"? Whatever it is, it isn't in the MM!