Best bang for your buck. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best bang for your buck. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rallaster
07-28-05, 09:50 PM So far I've bought a PHB, DMG and MM1. I'm wondering what would be the best bang for my buck with about 100$ (in terms of what books to buy). I can't decide if I want parts of the complete series or a campaign setting (I don't have much time to create my own)...

Thanks!
astute1
07-28-05, 10:19 PM The Eberron Campaign Setting Book.

It's a really, really good campaign setting, but even if you don't want to use it for that, you'll probably find a use for the 70ish new feats, 4 new races, 1 new core class, 5 new prestige classes, and a ton of neat new items & monsters. It's my favorite 3.5 book to date.
WCH
07-28-05, 10:39 PM Complete Cycle is great, but you shouldn't get it until you're familiar with the core rules, since basically they add tonnes of new material. That is... learn all the PrCs, feats, magic items and spells from the DMG and PHB. If you want to have more of all four of those, then buy one of the Complete books (I started with Divine, but Warrior is a popular choice, too). Read it from front to back and learn all of its new material -- if you still want more, get another one.

As for the other books, they're almost all setting specific... like if you want to have a lot of water get Stormwrack, if you want to have a lot of dragons get Draconomicon, undead = Libris mortis, Deserts = Sandstorm, Ice = frostburn, aberrations = Lords of Madness, etc. Decide what kind of enemies and terrain types most appeal to you, and buy accordingly.

My world, for example, is mostly human, and so almost all the villains are human. Because of that, Libris, Draconomicon and Lords of Madness would be a waste of money for me. Likewise, my campaign is set mainly in temperate plains, so the three terrain books I just mentioned would be useless, too.
Gort32
07-28-05, 10:44 PM I'd either grab a campaign book (Ebberon or Forgotten Realms) or take a trip to a local used bookstore and pick up an armload of fantasy novels. You're going to need a little more fluff (ideas) before you need more crunch (tables, feats, etc). The Complete cycle is great, but it's hard to base a campaign around the Monkey Grip feat :P
Rallaster
07-28-05, 10:48 PM Believe me, I've had my share of fantasy novels.

-looks over at bookshelf covered with easily over 100 600+ page thick books about dragons and magic-

Anyway, slightly off topic, would you recommend buying on EBay? I have an account, as well as a Paypal account, but I'm still unsure.
Cyra
07-28-05, 10:49 PM The Complete cycle is great, but it's hard to base a campaign around the Monkey Grip feat :P

what are you talking about?!?!!? My entire campaign is set up on The Order of the Impossibly Big Twin Warmace Style Fighter School.
Rathje
07-29-05, 03:04 AM I suggest Complete Warrior and Complete Arcane. I'm not sure of the prices in your region, but around here, that's $80, so the last twenty bucks isn't gonna' buy you another book. If you can tack on another, I'm not sure exactly what would be best. I haven't read the Eberron setting, but Eberron looks the most intriguing of the published settings to me.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple
07-29-05, 03:15 AM Complete Warrior and Complete Adventurer are the only two Complete books that any given party NEEDS. Before getting them, I'd reccomend the Eberron Campaign Setting and the Expanded Psionics Handbook (Complete Psionics is coming in April next year). Also before the Complete series, since it sounds as though you're looking for things to make your job as DM more interresting than options for your players, get Unearthed Arcana. There's a lot there to help give your campaign the feel you want it to have mechanically, and the system for Traits and Flaws is almost a must in any campaign. Sharn: City of Towers is also a VERY good choice if you want to run a Sharn-basec campaign in Eberron... and after you see the campaign setting, you're going to get the Sharn bug sooner or later. Indeed, a campaign in Sharn would be enough to overwhealm even an experienced DM without it.

Also, if you go with Amazon.com, you'll be able to get the Eberron Campaign Setting, the Expanded Psionics Handbook, Unearthed Arcana, and one of the Complete books or Sharn: City of Towers with no problem, assuming you didn't mind having to wait a week or two for the free shipping.
A Man In Black
07-29-05, 04:23 AM This is the DM board, right? Why is everyone recommending splatbooks?

I've gotten my money's worth out of Monster Manual 3. It's a well-rounded book, heavy on races you can stick class levels on and middle-CR critters.

Despite being a 3.0 book, Enemies and Allies is the handiest 3.0 book I ever bought.

Sharn: City of Towers is practically a setting book unto itself. It's a collection of random ideas for a game in a metropolis, and you could take any of them and stick them in any city, published or homebrew.

After your players get a bit more of a grasp of the game, Unearthed Arcana is great for mixing things up.

That's what I'd recommend for a newbie GM, off the top of my head. Plus, that's about $100 of books right there.
WCH
07-29-05, 04:30 AM This is the DM board, right? Why is everyone recommending splatbooks?Because DMs make far more characters than players do, and having the occasional character with unusual abilities is very nice. Almost every villain I make has a prestige class, and rarely is that class taken from the DMG. Currently, there's an Ur Priest (Complete Divine), a Reaping Mauler (Complete Warrior) and a Disciple of Asmodeus (Vile Darkness), all of whom the PCs are after. That and one Arcane Trickster, but I very nearly gave her a couple Complete classes, so that almost counts. ;)

Seriously, splatbooks are great for NPC creation. They also give details on new organisations, such as the Ravagers, new kinds of competitions you can hold (with mechanics for how to hold them), new artifacts to have your PCs seek, and details on essential campaign material, such as the sample prayers and the like in Complete Divine. All of these things really aid the DM in fleshing out his world and making NPCs that the players at least *think* are unique, if they haven't read through all the books. :P
A Man In Black
07-29-05, 07:18 AM Because DMs make far more characters than players do, and having the occasional character with unusual abilities is very nice. Almost every villain I make has a prestige class, and rarely is that class taken from the DMG. Currently, there's an Ur Priest (Complete Divine), a Reaping Mauler (Complete Warrior) and a Disciple of Asmodeus (Vile Darkness), all of whom the PCs are after. That and one Arcane Trickster, but I very nearly gave her a couple Complete classes, so that almost counts. ;)

Seriously, splatbooks are great for NPC creation. They also give details on new organisations, such as the Ravagers, new kinds of competitions you can hold (with mechanics for how to hold them), new artifacts to have your PCs seek, and details on essential campaign material, such as the sample prayers and the like in Complete Divine. All of these things really aid the DM in fleshing out his world and making NPCs that the players at least *think* are unique, if they haven't read through all the books. :P
In my experience, I find myself using prestige classes far less for NPCs than for PCs. Unless a PrC has some sort of odd mechanical niche, the players are unlikely to tell the difference between (for example) a typical fighter grappler and a fighter/reaping mauler grappler.

The organizations tend to be pretty generic in the Complete books. The Ravagers, your example, are...wandering sadists who hurt people. :rolleyes:

As for other rulesets for handling things like jousts, mage duels, etc., there are third-party books that blow away anything WotC has ever offered. I'm fond of the Advanced Player's Guide, and somewhere I have a collection of OGL material I bought for the Grim 'N Gritty variant combat system. (I forget what the name of the collection is, since I'm loaning the book to a friend.)

I've not gotten $30 of GM use out of the entire Complete series as whole, let alone any of the individual books.
kaeso
07-29-05, 10:57 AM DMG II? i just got it, trying to force myself to finish the first one before i open a whole other book that i know ill never set down. it has lots of stuff about how to deal w/ players, and players are ALWAYS going to do something that is frustrating as hell, ex. not taking your adventure hooks. the DMG II has a nice town in it that you can drop in just in case.
Lord Ian Stark
07-29-05, 11:11 AM Anyway, slightly off topic, would you recommend buying on EBay? I have an account, as well as a Paypal account, but I'm still unsure.

I have bought and sold on E-Bay using Paypal and all has been well. You can get great deals. Just be sure to read everything and ask questions to the seller if you are weary. But yeah, I have had great success on E-Bay as a buyer and seller. Just FYI.
Rallaster
07-29-05, 02:54 PM Thanks for all of your input everyone. I think I've decided on definately getting the Eberron Campaign Setting and Sharn: City of Towers does sound inticing. If I can manage to squeeze in another book, it's not going to break my wallet.

Edit: A friend and I actually Co-DM, and he has the DMG and MM. Do you feel it would be a worthwhile investment for me to purchase my own copies of these books?
Lord Ian Stark
07-29-05, 03:35 PM Edit: A friend and I actually Co-DM, and he has the DMG and MM. Do you feel it would be a worthwhile investment for me to purchase my own copies of these books?

IMO yes. Especially if you will be a long time DM for the future.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rallaster 07-28-05, 09:50 PM	So far I've bought a PHB, DMG and MM1. I'm wondering what would be the best bang for my buck with about 100$ (in terms of what books to buy). I can't decide if I want parts of the complete series or a campaign setting (I don't have much time to create my own)... Thanks!
astute1 07-28-05, 10:19 PM	The Eberron Campaign Setting Book. It's a really, really good campaign setting, but even if you don't want to use it for that, you'll probably find a use for the 70ish new feats, 4 new races, 1 new core class, 5 new prestige classes, and a ton of neat new items & monsters. It's my favorite 3.5 book to date.
WCH 07-28-05, 10:39 PM	Complete Cycle is great, but you shouldn't get it until you're familiar with the core rules, since basically they add tonnes of new material. That is... learn all the PrCs, feats, magic items and spells from the DMG and PHB. If you want to have more of all four of those, then buy one of the Complete books (I started with Divine, but Warrior is a popular choice, too). Read it from front to back and learn all of its new material -- if you still want more, get another one. As for the other books, they're almost all setting specific... like if you want to have a lot of water get Stormwrack, if you want to have a lot of dragons get Draconomicon, undead = Libris mortis, Deserts = Sandstorm, Ice = frostburn, aberrations = Lords of Madness, etc. Decide what kind of enemies and terrain types most appeal to you, and buy accordingly. My world, for example, is mostly human, and so almost all the villains are human. Because of that, Libris, Draconomicon and Lords of Madness would be a waste of money for me. Likewise, my campaign is set mainly in temperate plains, so the three terrain books I just mentioned would be useless, too.
Gort32 07-28-05, 10:44 PM	I'd either grab a campaign book (Ebberon or Forgotten Realms) or take a trip to a local used bookstore and pick up an armload of fantasy novels. You're going to need a little more fluff (ideas) before you need more crunch (tables, feats, etc). The Complete cycle is great, but it's hard to base a campaign around the Monkey Grip feat :P
Rallaster 07-28-05, 10:48 PM	Believe me, I've had my share of fantasy novels. -looks over at bookshelf covered with easily over 100 600+ page thick books about dragons and magic- Anyway, slightly off topic, would you recommend buying on EBay? I have an account, as well as a Paypal account, but I'm still unsure.
Cyra 07-28-05, 10:49 PM	The Complete cycle is great, but it's hard to base a campaign around the Monkey Grip feat :P what are you talking about?!?!!? My entire campaign is set up on The Order of the Impossibly Big Twin Warmace Style Fighter School.
Rathje 07-29-05, 03:04 AM	I suggest Complete Warrior and Complete Arcane. I'm not sure of the prices in your region, but around here, that's $80, so the last twenty bucks isn't gonna' buy you another book. If you can tack on another, I'm not sure exactly what would be best. I haven't read the Eberron setting, but Eberron looks the most intriguing of the published settings to me.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 07-29-05, 03:15 AM	Complete Warrior and Complete Adventurer are the only two Complete books that any given party NEEDS. Before getting them, I'd reccomend the Eberron Campaign Setting and the Expanded Psionics Handbook (Complete Psionics is coming in April next year). Also before the Complete series, since it sounds as though you're looking for things to make your job as DM more interresting than options for your players, get Unearthed Arcana. There's a lot there to help give your campaign the feel you want it to have mechanically, and the system for Traits and Flaws is almost a must in any campaign. Sharn: City of Towers is also a VERY good choice if you want to run a Sharn-basec campaign in Eberron... and after you see the campaign setting, you're going to get the Sharn bug sooner or later. Indeed, a campaign in Sharn would be enough to overwhealm even an experienced DM without it. Also, if you go with Amazon.com, you'll be able to get the Eberron Campaign Setting, the Expanded Psionics Handbook, Unearthed Arcana, and one of the Complete books or Sharn: City of Towers with no problem, assuming you didn't mind having to wait a week or two for the free shipping.
A Man In Black 07-29-05, 04:23 AM	This is the DM board, right? Why is everyone recommending splatbooks? I've gotten my money's worth out of Monster Manual 3. It's a well-rounded book, heavy on races you can stick class levels on and middle-CR critters. Despite being a 3.0 book, Enemies and Allies is the handiest 3.0 book I ever bought. Sharn: City of Towers is practically a setting book unto itself. It's a collection of random ideas for a game in a metropolis, and you could take any of them and stick them in any city, published or homebrew. After your players get a bit more of a grasp of the game, Unearthed Arcana is great for mixing things up. That's what I'd recommend for a newbie GM, off the top of my head. Plus, that's about $100 of books right there.
WCH 07-29-05, 04:30 AM	This is the DM board, right? Why is everyone recommending splatbooks?Because DMs make far more characters than players do, and having the occasional character with unusual abilities is very nice. Almost every villain I make has a prestige class, and rarely is that class taken from the DMG. Currently, there's an Ur Priest (Complete Divine), a Reaping Mauler (Complete Warrior) and a Disciple of Asmodeus (Vile Darkness), all of whom the PCs are after. That and one Arcane Trickster, but I very nearly gave her a couple Complete classes, so that almost counts. ;) Seriously, splatbooks are great for NPC creation. They also give details on new organisations, such as the Ravagers, new kinds of competitions you can hold (with mechanics for how to hold them), new artifacts to have your PCs seek, and details on essential campaign material, such as the sample prayers and the like in Complete Divine. All of these things really aid the DM in fleshing out his world and making NPCs that the players at least think are unique, if they haven't read through all the books. :P
A Man In Black 07-29-05, 07:18 AM	Because DMs make far more characters than players do, and having the occasional character with unusual abilities is very nice. Almost every villain I make has a prestige class, and rarely is that class taken from the DMG. Currently, there's an Ur Priest (Complete Divine), a Reaping Mauler (Complete Warrior) and a Disciple of Asmodeus (Vile Darkness), all of whom the PCs are after. That and one Arcane Trickster, but I very nearly gave her a couple Complete classes, so that almost counts. ;) Seriously, splatbooks are great for NPC creation. They also give details on new organisations, such as the Ravagers, new kinds of competitions you can hold (with mechanics for how to hold them), new artifacts to have your PCs seek, and details on essential campaign material, such as the sample prayers and the like in Complete Divine. All of these things really aid the DM in fleshing out his world and making NPCs that the players at least think are unique, if they haven't read through all the books. :P In my experience, I find myself using prestige classes far less for NPCs than for PCs. Unless a PrC has some sort of odd mechanical niche, the players are unlikely to tell the difference between (for example) a typical fighter grappler and a fighter/reaping mauler grappler. The organizations tend to be pretty generic in the Complete books. The Ravagers, your example, are...wandering sadists who hurt people. :rolleyes: As for other rulesets for handling things like jousts, mage duels, etc., there are third-party books that blow away anything WotC has ever offered. I'm fond of the Advanced Player's Guide, and somewhere I have a collection of OGL material I bought for the Grim 'N Gritty variant combat system. (I forget what the name of the collection is, since I'm loaning the book to a friend.) I've not gotten $30 of GM use out of the entire Complete series as whole, let alone any of the individual books.
kaeso 07-29-05, 10:57 AM	DMG II? i just got it, trying to force myself to finish the first one before i open a whole other book that i know ill never set down. it has lots of stuff about how to deal w/ players, and players are ALWAYS going to do something that is frustrating as hell, ex. not taking your adventure hooks. the DMG II has a nice town in it that you can drop in just in case.
Lord Ian Stark 07-29-05, 11:11 AM	Anyway, slightly off topic, would you recommend buying on EBay? I have an account, as well as a Paypal account, but I'm still unsure. I have bought and sold on E-Bay using Paypal and all has been well. You can get great deals. Just be sure to read everything and ask questions to the seller if you are weary. But yeah, I have had great success on E-Bay as a buyer and seller. Just FYI.
Rallaster 07-29-05, 02:54 PM	Thanks for all of your input everyone. I think I've decided on definately getting the Eberron Campaign Setting and Sharn: City of Towers does sound inticing. If I can manage to squeeze in another book, it's not going to break my wallet. Edit: A friend and I actually Co-DM, and he has the DMG and MM. Do you feel it would be a worthwhile investment for me to purchase my own copies of these books?
Lord Ian Stark 07-29-05, 03:35 PM	Edit: A friend and I actually Co-DM, and he has the DMG and MM. Do you feel it would be a worthwhile investment for me to purchase my own copies of these books? IMO yes. Especially if you will be a long time DM for the future.