Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Afarian 03-07-05, 11:45 AM	I've probably Well, I guess when they say you are almost certain to make mistakes as a New DM, they weren't kidding!! Originally, I thought I was going to be Dm'ing one player (who wanted to be wizard), so I gave him 35 pt buy system and 3 randomly rolled minor starting items! Eventually, however, I got 3 of my other friends to join. I wanted to be fair so I gave them the same point buy and the random item. The second mistake I made was accidently miscalculating the price on a flaming greataxe +1, giving it out for a little less than 2,000 gp Third mistake, actually giving them 2,000 gp by second level. Needless to say on a typical day they have almost NO problem mowing through most of the monsters I throw at them. Of course my monster tactics are getting a lot better now (I used to ignore abilities when I couldn't figure out exactly how they worked) but even still the only that provided them with a decent challenge was CR 4 Mimic. Currently, the biggest problem is a lvl 3 Half-Orc Barbarian. With +8 to hit and a 1d12+1+4+1d6. However I am going to give the axe charges, convienently running out at the next encounter so at least that takes care of 1d6. Currently my party consists of Half-Orc Barbarian lvl 3 (50 xp to 4) Elf Wizard lvl 4 Rogue2/Fighter 2 Human Lvl 4 Fighter/Rogue/Cleric lvl 3 (Hasn't joined yet but will be joining soon) So my main question is, what is the best way to create the appropiate CR encounters for this group? I know some people suggested backtracking to a 32 point buy or perhaps even a little less like 26 or so, I prefer not to make them have to almost redo their whole sheet though and I think it's bad Dm'ing to suddenly change a player's stats or take things away because you didn't realize they would be too powerful (unless it's an item, those can easily be stolen by an NPC rogue or whatnot) So I'm guessing one of the following: 1. Raise the HP, BAB, AC or other stats on the monsters (effectively advancing the monster a notch or so) I'm not sure if I should raise all of these stats or just some. 2. Lower the Exp giving per monster or lower EL 3. Calculate EL based on party using an EL Calculator (if they have those?) and give exp based on the overall EL instead of the combined total of the CR's of the creatures
Board_Rider 03-07-05, 11:54 AM	Do not worry Monty Hall!!!! Simply give classes to enemys and begin battles with the main guy being a CR4 wth a couple of CR 1's. The only treasure will be weapons and armor found on the bodies. Also go with a heavy RPing campaign and get those levels up to around 5 so that things will begin to balance out. No More magic items for a while. No need to change the PC's.
Bringslite 03-07-05, 11:57 AM	If you lower the rewards/treasure for a few lvls things will balance out better. Keep treasure low until PC totals match that suggested in the DMG. No more than a +1 on items for each 4 or 5 lvls. With thier high scores they will be fine. Things will never balance out perfectly with scores like that though. I know, I've been there.
VirgilCaine 03-07-05, 12:03 PM	What is with the Fighter/Rogue/Cleric? Odd multiclass choice. But anyway, you NEED to tell us the "randomly rolled minor starting items" are. (I used to ignore abilities when I couldn't figure out exactly how they worked) Huh? Abilities like what?
Wizard 03-07-05, 12:43 PM	I think he means things like Rake and Improved Grab---those are the big ones for newb DM's.
ShadowDragon8685 03-07-05, 01:15 PM	Biiiig no-no. Don't just shaft them of their magical items. You handed them out, now live with it. Don't just shaft them on it, or it WILL create upset PCs. Besides, why worry? They're having fun, right? A little steamrolling in the early levels is a good thing, especially since the first few levels results in the most permanant PC deaths.
The Eye of Kyi 03-07-05, 01:21 PM	Lots of good suggestions here so far. Others Give MAX hp to the opponents have them enter a dungoen or crypt that is under the effect of a desecrate spell, giving the undead there some nice bonuses, and dont forget the Damage reduction for certain undead... you could have them enter a dungeon where there are 'magic-null' zones and pockets... put a treasure item in your game that is actually a cursed item, that will lower some of their stats / hp, slow healing or something that will hinder them. if they sell it, drop it or give it away it will magically reappear in their pouches satchels etc. they could then quest to find a cleric that was high enough level to remove the cursed object from their possesion. let them find a gateway to a planar dungeon site - (read up in the DMG about the various planes and their effects) - the DR of the creatures will balance some of the bonuses these characters have, some of their magic items might not even work...
mercurial67 03-07-05, 01:30 PM	Couple of things you can do. The characters ARE tougher than normal. Since the CR ratings are designed for 28pt buy characters, consider them to have a +1 LA. So for calculating XP and encounters you treat them as one level higher. The too much equipment problem can be easily fixed by giving them half the treasure they would normally get until they catch up level wise to their treasure status. You will probably want to pit them against tougher creatures for awhile since the extra magic will make them tougher. Try something +2 CR above their level to see how they do. If it drains them of roughly 25% of their resources, then you are on target. If it drains them of 50% of their recources, then just still with the +1 CR adjustment for the extra pt buy characters.
Vharuck 03-07-05, 01:52 PM	I'm just making sure that you know that a +1 flaming weapon is not 2000 gold, but 8000. The flaming is a +1 bonus and you add them together to find the equivalent price. This is equivalent to a +2 weapon.
Afarian 03-07-05, 02:27 PM	What is with the Fighter/Rogue/Cleric? Odd multiclass choice. Yeah, trust me I was asking why he wanted to do that too, at first he was going all that + Ranger but he didn't like the first level Ranger in 3.0 as much as 3.5 (I'm guessing because you don't get 3 free feats right off the bat). I'm thinking he subconsciously is trying to do some kind of munchkin trick or something to get a bunch of free feats, even though he claims it's for roleplaying purposes. But anyway, you NEED to tell us the "randomly rolled minor starting items" are. I used the random magic item generation table 7-1 on page 216 of the DMG. Most people ended with potions and scrolls, however the Barbarian asked if he could trade 2 minor items in for one medium and of course I said yes (probably another "Monty Hall" move< LOL Boardrider) and he got Cloak of Arachnia. The Fighter/rogue got something of vitality where he doesn't have to eat or anything and I don't remember what the Wizard got but it didn't seem to be anything that unbalancing Huh? Abilities like what? Abilities such as Krenshar's Scare and Troglodytes Stench
Vatras 03-07-05, 02:39 PM	Maximum hp monsters and elite stat arrays for the monsters will do the trick (use a 28 point buy to determine monster base stats).
Slider33 03-07-05, 02:55 PM	Here's an encounter calculator link: You can also save this page, and it should work offline as well: http://www.d20srd.org/encounterCalculator.htm
olshanski_home 03-07-05, 03:06 PM	I would make only one change: Treat opponents as if they were 1CR less than listed in the book. This only matters for handing out experience and planning your encounters. This is easier to deal with than adding extra stat points to monsters or doing anything else. It requires less work than tweaking stats and HP... it is also more faithful to the rules.* Really, you could take 4 CR1 orcs and give them higher strength, higher dex, and max HP, recalculate thier to-hit bonus, recalculate thier saves, and recalculate thier damage... or you could just send the party against an 4 ogres and hand out experience as if the party conquered 4 CR1 creatures. The other thing I would do is closely read the expected treasure per level for PCs... and then do not give out any single magic item that has a value of more than 1/2 of what they should have for the next level. (so they can grow into the item). For example, a flaming sword is something like a +3 magic item. Most people should not have that kind of weapon until they are level 8-9. *about "more faithful to the rules". When you give max HP to creatures, it has considerable ramifications for magic items and spells. Spells which deal out damage have less value, and spells that work off of enemy HD are considerably more powerful. If two creatures have 3d8 hit dice, they will normally have 14 HP each. A 5th level caster can possibly kill one if he focuses all 3 magic missiles. That 5th level caster probably also kills any of them that fail a save VS a fireball. Now give them max HP (24)... a 5th level caster has no chance of killing one with a magic missile, and they probably both survive a fireball even with a failed save. A Sleep spell by a 1st level caster, however, still has a good chance of taking out one monster... and might even be a better bet than fireball by a 5th level caster.
Afarian 03-07-05, 03:09 PM	Biiiig no-no. Don't just shaft them of their magical items. You handed them out, now live with it. Don't just shaft them on it, or it WILL create upset PCs. Besides, why worry? They're having fun, right? A little steamrolling in the early levels is a good thing, especially since the first few levels results in the most permanant PC deaths. That's true and it's exactly what I want to avoid doing!! Thanks for the reminder though. I think the charges for the axe is a fair move though. After he bought and 8000+ axe for about 1650!! Granted the shopkeeper was not very intelligent and his little franchise will probably be taken over by corporate again! For now I think about 15 charges is good and later (around 6 or so) I'll give him the option of paying a fee to make the enchantment permanent! Overall I'm not too worried, afterall it is just a game where the main thing is to A: Have fun and keep everyone interested and the players constantly thrilled and happy! B. Try to make things challenging but not too challenging and since I am NEW DM I think I can make a few mistakes
VirgilCaine 03-08-05, 01:07 PM	I used the random magic item generation table 7-1 on page 216 of the DMG. Most people ended with potions and scrolls, however the Barbarian asked if he could trade 2 minor items in for one medium and of course I said yes (probably another "Monty Hall" move< LOL Boardrider) and he got Cloak of Arachnidna. The Fighter/rogue got something of vitality where he doesn't have to eat or anything and I don't remember what the Wizard got but it didn't seem to be anything that unbalancing He traded two minor table rolls for one medium table roll, right? He didn't choose that, right? The Cloak isn't much of a problem. Web once per day, spider climb and +2 to saves vs. spider poison. I like it, it's a nifty flavorful cheap item as opposed to cloaks of resistance. The wizard got either a ring of sustenance or the ioun stone that does that. Neither are too much of a problem. It's not like it's a...Cube of Force or anything. Abilities such as Krenshar's Scare and Troglodytes Stench How are they confusing or hard to understand?
Aurum 03-08-05, 01:51 PM	A good way to adjust for 35 point characters is to give all creatures the Elite stat set and/or treat the party as if it was one level higher then current while making encounters. It's a surprisingly simple fix that works fairly well.
LordArkan 03-08-05, 02:37 PM	I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but in my games I always give my monsters/NPCs the same point buy that I give the PCs. It works pretty well.