Best Way to Physically Map Dungeon Progress? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Way to Physically Map Dungeon Progress? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nightlore
02-05-08, 11:27 AM I'm curious to see what techniques the seasoned DMs out there have used to map their players' progress in dungeons as they go. I mean, I have a large battle mat, but not that large.

I also have purchased one or two sets of the dungeon tiles put forth by Wizards...has anyone had any luck with these? It seems like they might be hard to use - I mean, I'd have to remember the configuration and I can just imagine myself spending most of the session fumbling with them and trying to get the dungeon configured properly.

I have access to a projector for use, but that also seems like lots of work.

I'm to the point where I just want to tell the players to use their imaginations and then draw out a room or two on the battle mat when it comes time for combat.

Has anyone else had luck with any other methods?
Joe Khol
02-05-08, 11:49 AM I've personally never found anything more effective than the classic pencil and paper.

The DM can sketch a simple, small-scale map as the party progresses which can be used to work out where everyone is at a give time, help describing rooms and areas and help players explain what they're characters are doing. It can even work as a battle map as long as you're not bothered about being inch perfect with everything (which my group aren't).

Quick, simple, cheap and easy.
icuall
02-05-08, 12:06 PM We use a battlemat and old style mini's for combat situations. I quickly draw out the room or area for the melee, using a Erasable Marker. I keep the colors black, red, blue, and green. In case I need to differentiate a certain area from the black lines.

I also use a few stage pieces for the battlemat to help the visualization. I went to the hobby store and bought packages 1/2", 1" wooden discs, and 1/2" and 1" wooden cubes, very inexpensive. I use the small or larger disces as either trees or bushes when outdoors, or as pillars, urns, or statues, when indoors. The cubes I use as small and large boulders when outdoors, and as, place two together, for altars, tables, crates, etc. when indoors. When placing the outdoors discs and cubes, I just grab a handful and toss some on the battlemat and randomly assign them to a square. It's quick and adds cover to the area without having to waste a few minutes in drawing and then erasing all the trees.

As for mapping as they go through the dungeon, I suggest that someone in the party be a "mapper" as they go about. It can be crude flow chart. It is only for their purposes so they do not get lost. If they don't want to map, fine with me, but their chance of getting lost goes up a lot. Eventually, practicality kicks in and someone will start mapping where they came from location to location. Especially when trying to remember where they saw a certain item or location they think they need to go back to.
ppirilla
02-05-08, 12:14 PM As for mapping as they go through the dungeon, I suggest that someone in the party be a "mapper" as they go about. It can be crude flow chart. It is only for their purposes so they do not get lost. If they don't want to map, fine with me, but their chance of getting lost goes up a lot. Eventually, practicality kicks in and someone will start mapping where they came from location to location. Especially when trying to remember where they saw a certain item or location they think they need to go back to.

Second this. Mapping out the party's progress through a dungeon is the responsibility of the other players, not the DM. Give them some graph paper and a pencil, and save the battle mat for combat situations.
narack
02-05-08, 12:27 PM i actually use a 250' X 250' map which is 5' by squares. Scroll colored. Just perfect for Dnd Mini size so it's about 3' X 3' real size. And it's made of something like leather/vinyl. I use non-permanent pen to draw maps on it while they fight. And it erase easily using semi-wet tissue. But they also usually map the dungeon also.
AntiDjinn
02-05-08, 01:31 PM Pencil and paper still works. If the party uses Rock to Mud to make a hole from one dungeon chamber to the next, I simply draw the new "door" in. If they break something, I cross it off.

Someone from the party generally maps with graph paper as they go. It is the party's job to remember where they have been. If they have been to a particular chamber before, but for some reason the players don't remember it, I give clues that the characters would be able to spot.

By the way, it isn't just progress through physical dungeon complexes that needs to be mapped and tracked. If there is a large NPC organization (enemy, friendly, or neutral to the party) it needs to be "mapped" with a flowchart of the hierarchy or chain of command and the PC's "progress" through it recorded. As the players figures out who's who in the org (or mistakenly think they have figured it out), kill off members, earn favors with members, etc., the same mapping techniques uses on a dungeon floor plan help me remember what they are supposed to know, and how much of the organization's structure remains a mystery to them.
Nightlore
02-05-08, 01:54 PM All helpful responses! Thanks everyone. I will definitely insist that they begin using graph paper and map out their own progress.

We will continue to use the battle mat to draw out combat situations.

I'm still curious as to anyone's successes or failures with the dungeon tiles line of products from Wizards.
Ariakus
02-05-08, 02:28 PM I personally like to map it myself as we go, the players will the get scale messed up eventually and then the rooms will not be in the right places. I draw mine on CAD, I scan the map then import it and scale the thing to a pre-drawn 5' grid I have on a light layer.

So when the session is done, I go to CAD and draw the walls, doors, encounters, etc on a darker layer (I make a layer for walls, doors, text, etc so I can turn them on and off), putting the map to the background so all lines I've drawn show through, then make the map a non-printable layer. When I print it, only the lines I drew and the grid show up. Then I take this to the next session and hand it out to everyone so they can see where they've been and still need to go.

But not everyone has access to CAD, but there is other mapping software out there free and not so free.
DavesWorld334
02-05-08, 07:17 PM I use a DLP projector and my computer. I use GIMP to draw maps, and use a top layer as a mask that I erase away as they penetrate into a dungeon or change their viewing conditions, etc... Works like a charm. I'm a big fan of preparing maps ahead of time; my players enjoy the drawing on the battlemat, but having to stop everytime someone moves further up felt like a huge drag to the game's flow.

For my money, I haven't found a "virtual tabletop" system that is even ten percent as useful and powerful as GIMP, which is open source and free!

If you don't have a DLP projector, you can accomplish the same result by printing your maps out and using dark paper as a cover to reveal as they go. Or draw the battlemat ahead of time and do the same paper cover reveal.

Good luck!
Kouk
02-06-08, 03:36 AM There is the other option you presented that seems fairly under-represented up to this point, that of just using the map for combat encounters.

This is foremost a playstyle issue, whether the DM or Players actually want to draw maps is up to the individual group to decide.

For me, when I DM I have the "real map" with me in my notes and I describe things such as when they come to forks, or ravines, or stalagmite rooms or whatever, and they can decide which way to go based on the descriptions and however they feel like.

When they come to a combat encounter, I describe the room and then draw it (sometimes at the same time) on the battlemat. I know where they are because I follow their progress on my copy of the map, so I just draw the room or rooms they are in when the fight happens.

Unless I set out intentionally to make a maze which counts as a puzzle (which will grant XP) I assume that the characters will handle keeping track of where they are going and where they've been. The characters can have some sheets of parchment and a pen and easily trace their progress through normal passageways and such (they are adventurers, they do this for a living). If they want to go back to the entrance, and there is a clear path which they have taken from there, then they can go back without trouble or having to "remember which way" led to the entrance. If we can have 12-year-olds with graph paper make a complete map of a dungeon, why couldn't the Ranger or 18 INT Wizard who is actually there do it?

Players are welcome to make maps if they want, but the majority of mine seem to dislike bookkeeping or note taking, and I don't particularly want to describe a room multiple times so they can get the details right.

For me, it is an issue of character knowledge versus player knowledge. If they are in a dungeon over the course of several play sessions, the players quite possibly will forget everything about the earlier rooms unless I remind them; does that mean their characters suffer amnesia? If the player loses the map, does that mean the characters lost theirs?

If you think this is too easy, you could also use things like Survival to remember and record where you are. Maybe even Knowledge checks relevant to the location, like Dungeoneering for cave systems and dungeons, Geography for overland stuff, etc... but get the players' opinions.

Anyway, the PHB sells chalk for a reason... :D It's weightless, and practically free.
the_redbeard
02-06-08, 11:20 PM I use a DLP projector and my computer. I use GIMP to draw maps, and use a top layer as a mask that I erase away as they penetrate into a dungeon or change their viewing conditions, etc... Works like a charm. I'm a big fan of preparing maps ahead of time; my players enjoy the drawing on the battlemat, but having to stop everytime someone moves further up felt like a huge drag to the game's flow.

For my money, I haven't found a "virtual tabletop" system that is even ten percent as useful and powerful as GIMP, which is open source and free!

If you don't have a DLP projector, you can accomplish the same result by printing your maps out and using dark paper as a cover to reveal as they go. Or draw the battlemat ahead of time and do the same paper cover reveal.

Good luck!

I use MapTool (http://rptools.net/doku.php?id=maptool:intro). The dynamic shadows and light are very easy to use. The shadows add a nifty dimension. The players pay a LOT more attention to who has torches and such, and I have been putting in nifty objects like columns that monsters hide behind. Fun.

We project onto a wall behind me and the players have one laptop also loaded with maptool. One player moves the tokens while the other players use a laser pointer to show where they want to move.

For making the maps I use a variety of different toys. I have some of those Skeleton Key tiles that I piece together with GIMP and I also have Dunjini.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nightlore 02-05-08, 11:27 AM	I'm curious to see what techniques the seasoned DMs out there have used to map their players' progress in dungeons as they go. I mean, I have a large battle mat, but not that large. I also have purchased one or two sets of the dungeon tiles put forth by Wizards...has anyone had any luck with these? It seems like they might be hard to use - I mean, I'd have to remember the configuration and I can just imagine myself spending most of the session fumbling with them and trying to get the dungeon configured properly. I have access to a projector for use, but that also seems like lots of work. I'm to the point where I just want to tell the players to use their imaginations and then draw out a room or two on the battle mat when it comes time for combat. Has anyone else had luck with any other methods?
Joe Khol 02-05-08, 11:49 AM	I've personally never found anything more effective than the classic pencil and paper. The DM can sketch a simple, small-scale map as the party progresses which can be used to work out where everyone is at a give time, help describing rooms and areas and help players explain what they're characters are doing. It can even work as a battle map as long as you're not bothered about being inch perfect with everything (which my group aren't). Quick, simple, cheap and easy.
icuall 02-05-08, 12:06 PM	We use a battlemat and old style mini's for combat situations. I quickly draw out the room or area for the melee, using a Erasable Marker. I keep the colors black, red, blue, and green. In case I need to differentiate a certain area from the black lines. I also use a few stage pieces for the battlemat to help the visualization. I went to the hobby store and bought packages 1/2", 1" wooden discs, and 1/2" and 1" wooden cubes, very inexpensive. I use the small or larger disces as either trees or bushes when outdoors, or as pillars, urns, or statues, when indoors. The cubes I use as small and large boulders when outdoors, and as, place two together, for altars, tables, crates, etc. when indoors. When placing the outdoors discs and cubes, I just grab a handful and toss some on the battlemat and randomly assign them to a square. It's quick and adds cover to the area without having to waste a few minutes in drawing and then erasing all the trees. As for mapping as they go through the dungeon, I suggest that someone in the party be a "mapper" as they go about. It can be crude flow chart. It is only for their purposes so they do not get lost. If they don't want to map, fine with me, but their chance of getting lost goes up a lot. Eventually, practicality kicks in and someone will start mapping where they came from location to location. Especially when trying to remember where they saw a certain item or location they think they need to go back to.
ppirilla 02-05-08, 12:14 PM	As for mapping as they go through the dungeon, I suggest that someone in the party be a "mapper" as they go about. It can be crude flow chart. It is only for their purposes so they do not get lost. If they don't want to map, fine with me, but their chance of getting lost goes up a lot. Eventually, practicality kicks in and someone will start mapping where they came from location to location. Especially when trying to remember where they saw a certain item or location they think they need to go back to. Second this. Mapping out the party's progress through a dungeon is the responsibility of the other players, not the DM. Give them some graph paper and a pencil, and save the battle mat for combat situations.
narack 02-05-08, 12:27 PM	i actually use a 250' X 250' map which is 5' by squares. Scroll colored. Just perfect for Dnd Mini size so it's about 3' X 3' real size. And it's made of something like leather/vinyl. I use non-permanent pen to draw maps on it while they fight. And it erase easily using semi-wet tissue. But they also usually map the dungeon also.
AntiDjinn 02-05-08, 01:31 PM	Pencil and paper still works. If the party uses Rock to Mud to make a hole from one dungeon chamber to the next, I simply draw the new "door" in. If they break something, I cross it off. Someone from the party generally maps with graph paper as they go. It is the party's job to remember where they have been. If they have been to a particular chamber before, but for some reason the players don't remember it, I give clues that the characters would be able to spot. By the way, it isn't just progress through physical dungeon complexes that needs to be mapped and tracked. If there is a large NPC organization (enemy, friendly, or neutral to the party) it needs to be "mapped" with a flowchart of the hierarchy or chain of command and the PC's "progress" through it recorded. As the players figures out who's who in the org (or mistakenly think they have figured it out), kill off members, earn favors with members, etc., the same mapping techniques uses on a dungeon floor plan help me remember what they are supposed to know, and how much of the organization's structure remains a mystery to them.
Nightlore 02-05-08, 01:54 PM	All helpful responses! Thanks everyone. I will definitely insist that they begin using graph paper and map out their own progress. We will continue to use the battle mat to draw out combat situations. I'm still curious as to anyone's successes or failures with the dungeon tiles line of products from Wizards.
Ariakus 02-05-08, 02:28 PM	I personally like to map it myself as we go, the players will the get scale messed up eventually and then the rooms will not be in the right places. I draw mine on CAD, I scan the map then import it and scale the thing to a pre-drawn 5' grid I have on a light layer. So when the session is done, I go to CAD and draw the walls, doors, encounters, etc on a darker layer (I make a layer for walls, doors, text, etc so I can turn them on and off), putting the map to the background so all lines I've drawn show through, then make the map a non-printable layer. When I print it, only the lines I drew and the grid show up. Then I take this to the next session and hand it out to everyone so they can see where they've been and still need to go. But not everyone has access to CAD, but there is other mapping software out there free and not so free.
DavesWorld334 02-05-08, 07:17 PM	I use a DLP projector and my computer. I use GIMP to draw maps, and use a top layer as a mask that I erase away as they penetrate into a dungeon or change their viewing conditions, etc... Works like a charm. I'm a big fan of preparing maps ahead of time; my players enjoy the drawing on the battlemat, but having to stop everytime someone moves further up felt like a huge drag to the game's flow. For my money, I haven't found a "virtual tabletop" system that is even ten percent as useful and powerful as GIMP, which is open source and free! If you don't have a DLP projector, you can accomplish the same result by printing your maps out and using dark paper as a cover to reveal as they go. Or draw the battlemat ahead of time and do the same paper cover reveal. Good luck!
Kouk 02-06-08, 03:36 AM	There is the other option you presented that seems fairly under-represented up to this point, that of just using the map for combat encounters. This is foremost a playstyle issue, whether the DM or Players actually want to draw maps is up to the individual group to decide. For me, when I DM I have the "real map" with me in my notes and I describe things such as when they come to forks, or ravines, or stalagmite rooms or whatever, and they can decide which way to go based on the descriptions and however they feel like. When they come to a combat encounter, I describe the room and then draw it (sometimes at the same time) on the battlemat. I know where they are because I follow their progress on my copy of the map, so I just draw the room or rooms they are in when the fight happens. Unless I set out intentionally to make a maze which counts as a puzzle (which will grant XP) I assume that the characters will handle keeping track of where they are going and where they've been. The characters can have some sheets of parchment and a pen and easily trace their progress through normal passageways and such (they are adventurers, they do this for a living). If they want to go back to the entrance, and there is a clear path which they have taken from there, then they can go back without trouble or having to "remember which way" led to the entrance. If we can have 12-year-olds with graph paper make a complete map of a dungeon, why couldn't the Ranger or 18 INT Wizard who is actually there do it? Players are welcome to make maps if they want, but the majority of mine seem to dislike bookkeeping or note taking, and I don't particularly want to describe a room multiple times so they can get the details right. For me, it is an issue of character knowledge versus player knowledge. If they are in a dungeon over the course of several play sessions, the players quite possibly will forget everything about the earlier rooms unless I remind them; does that mean their characters suffer amnesia? If the player loses the map, does that mean the characters lost theirs? If you think this is too easy, you could also use things like Survival to remember and record where you are. Maybe even Knowledge checks relevant to the location, like Dungeoneering for cave systems and dungeons, Geography for overland stuff, etc... but get the players' opinions. Anyway, the PHB sells chalk for a reason... :D It's weightless, and practically free.
the_redbeard 02-06-08, 11:20 PM	I use a DLP projector and my computer. I use GIMP to draw maps, and use a top layer as a mask that I erase away as they penetrate into a dungeon or change their viewing conditions, etc... Works like a charm. I'm a big fan of preparing maps ahead of time; my players enjoy the drawing on the battlemat, but having to stop everytime someone moves further up felt like a huge drag to the game's flow. For my money, I haven't found a "virtual tabletop" system that is even ten percent as useful and powerful as GIMP, which is open source and free! If you don't have a DLP projector, you can accomplish the same result by printing your maps out and using dark paper as a cover to reveal as they go. Or draw the battlemat ahead of time and do the same paper cover reveal. Good luck! I use MapTool (http://rptools.net/doku.php?id=maptool:intro). The dynamic shadows and light are very easy to use. The shadows add a nifty dimension. The players pay a LOT more attention to who has torches and such, and I have been putting in nifty objects like columns that monsters hide behind. Fun. We project onto a wall behind me and the players have one laptop also loaded with maptool. One player moves the tokens while the other players use a laser pointer to show where they want to move. For making the maps I use a variety of different toys. I have some of those Skeleton Key tiles that I piece together with GIMP and I also have Dunjini.