Between meta gameing - surprises & information. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Between meta gameing - surprises & information. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Last City
07-02-06, 11:05 PM Basically i have this issue that im not too impress with:

u see i have been playing dnd with a group for 5 years. Among them 2 are DMs. My issue is that among them: 1 cant stop metagaming & 1 demands DM information all the time (as in to know what to expect so he can tailor his character to the situation)

My problem:

1. the meta gaming of 1 player always spoiled the fun of the other player. I dont like meta-gaming period. it ruins surprises and sometimes players meta game too much till they drag games... and the worst bit: when they die, they blame the DM for it!!! On top of that, he has a player vs dm mentality which is why he uses meta game to help him survive.

2. Transparency is affecting my game... i find that when i tell players what variant rules i want to use, they automatically meta-game and would tailor make characters that anti the situation. The thing is: we are playing a horror adventure (this was suggested by a player) and so with all the information given out... it becomes expected and not so scary anymore.

Im feeling a bit annoyed and am wondering maybe the group isnt fit to play horror game.
Steel Cobra
07-02-06, 11:25 PM Meta gaming does NOT work in a horror game. Imagine, a great dark vampire comes at you brandishing a mourning star. Now you say out loud to the party and you, oh don't worry, I read up on vampires last night, this one should be 2 CR less then us. Making it an easy fight.

And if we start to lose then we can always jump off this bridge and only take 2d6 falling damage. And the wizard could cast Levitate and get away. This will be no problem.

How will you be scared when you know that you will NOT die? Uncertanity is the key.
Comus
07-02-06, 11:31 PM The obvious thing, of course, is to not tell the players exactly what you're doing. They know what variant rules you're using? WRONG. They know what variant rules they are using. Never, ever use a monster they've heard of or seen before. Even if you're using stats from one monster, give a description of something unknown, something horrific.

Need more? Have the monster's AC change every round. Not to some solid number, either - just randomly call out "hit" or "miss" as the players attack. Start using mind control - have one player attack the others. Invisible opponents. Scary little girls. Great Cthulhu. Whatever it takes.
Dan Hemmens
07-03-06, 09:25 AM Metagaming works fine in a horror game.

"I've read the rulebooks, I know exactly how indestructible that thing is"
"I know all about the Sanity rules, I'm *so* not reading that dark book of evil".

The problem seems to be that you're trying to run a Horror game like a dungeon crawl. You can't just put werewolves in something and call it "horror".
Archmage Atrus
07-03-06, 09:48 AM Need more? Have the monster's AC change every round. Not to some solid number, either - just randomly call out "hit" or "miss" as the players attack.

Wow is this the worst idea in the history of bad ideas. Your players will easily catch on, call you a bastard and dump your game. As well they should, because it's total ********. The rules may be flexible, but they're there so the DM can't just unjustifiably be a bastard.

Your other points are good, though. And I agree that it appears the OP doesn't really know how to run a horror game. Buy some old Ravenloft core books, maybe Call of Cthulu or some other book MEANT to teach you how to run horror. They all pretty much say the same thing:

* Mood. You have to be very descriptive in your game - twice as you would be in a regular campaign. Emphasize the esoteric points of the atmosphere, instead of merely the concrete. It's not going to scare your players, but it'll get them in the mood.
* Isolation. Split up the party, whether for an entire adventure or just for a single encounter. Being alone is far scarier than being in a place with your buddies.
* Making the unknown out of the known. Never call a spade a spade. Don't call the monster an orc - call it a fearsome, massive humanoid with large tusks growing out of its deformed face. Again, descriptions have to come in double.
* Take away the numbers. Keep track of your players' hit points for them, as well as their spot and listen checks. If you have to, roll everything yourself. This will stop the players from thinking of the game as a numbers game, and more into an actual situation.
* Fudge your descriptions. Don't say the monster missed. Say that his hideously outsized claws slashed just inches from the player's face, leaving tiny scratches along his skin that sting fiercely.

Soon, they'll be questioning everything, without you having to resort to cheating.
Stumm_Dolch
07-03-06, 10:14 AM * Take away the numbers. Keep track of your players' hit points for them, as well as their spot and listen checks. If you have to, roll everything yourself. This will stop the players from thinking of the game as a numbers game, and more into an actual situation.

This is a great idea... I already do this for passive skills, but I may do the HP thing in a few encounters that come between major events to keep the creep factor of adventuring in the wilds.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Last City 07-02-06, 11:05 PM	Basically i have this issue that im not too impress with: u see i have been playing dnd with a group for 5 years. Among them 2 are DMs. My issue is that among them: 1 cant stop metagaming & 1 demands DM information all the time (as in to know what to expect so he can tailor his character to the situation) My problem: 1. the meta gaming of 1 player always spoiled the fun of the other player. I dont like meta-gaming period. it ruins surprises and sometimes players meta game too much till they drag games... and the worst bit: when they die, they blame the DM for it!!! On top of that, he has a player vs dm mentality which is why he uses meta game to help him survive. 2. Transparency is affecting my game... i find that when i tell players what variant rules i want to use, they automatically meta-game and would tailor make characters that anti the situation. The thing is: we are playing a horror adventure (this was suggested by a player) and so with all the information given out... it becomes expected and not so scary anymore. Im feeling a bit annoyed and am wondering maybe the group isnt fit to play horror game.
Steel Cobra 07-02-06, 11:25 PM	Meta gaming does NOT work in a horror game. Imagine, a great dark vampire comes at you brandishing a mourning star. Now you say out loud to the party and you, oh don't worry, I read up on vampires last night, this one should be 2 CR less then us. Making it an easy fight. And if we start to lose then we can always jump off this bridge and only take 2d6 falling damage. And the wizard could cast Levitate and get away. This will be no problem. How will you be scared when you know that you will NOT die? Uncertanity is the key.
Comus 07-02-06, 11:31 PM	The obvious thing, of course, is to not tell the players exactly what you're doing. They know what variant rules you're using? WRONG. They know what variant rules they are using. Never, ever use a monster they've heard of or seen before. Even if you're using stats from one monster, give a description of something unknown, something horrific. Need more? Have the monster's AC change every round. Not to some solid number, either - just randomly call out "hit" or "miss" as the players attack. Start using mind control - have one player attack the others. Invisible opponents. Scary little girls. Great Cthulhu. Whatever it takes.
Dan Hemmens 07-03-06, 09:25 AM	Metagaming works fine in a horror game. "I've read the rulebooks, I know exactly how indestructible that thing is" "I know all about the Sanity rules, I'm so not reading that dark book of evil". The problem seems to be that you're trying to run a Horror game like a dungeon crawl. You can't just put werewolves in something and call it "horror".
Archmage Atrus 07-03-06, 09:48 AM	Need more? Have the monster's AC change every round. Not to some solid number, either - just randomly call out "hit" or "miss" as the players attack. Wow is this the worst idea in the history of bad ideas. Your players will easily catch on, call you a bastard and dump your game. As well they should, because it's total *******. The rules may be flexible, but they're there so the DM can't just unjustifiably be a bastard. Your other points are good, though. And I agree that it appears the OP doesn't really know how to run a horror game. Buy some old Ravenloft core books, maybe Call of Cthulu or some other book MEANT to teach you how to run horror. They all pretty much say the same thing: Mood. You have to be very descriptive in your game - twice as you would be in a regular campaign. Emphasize the esoteric points of the atmosphere, instead of merely the concrete. It's not going to scare your players, but it'll get them in the mood. * Isolation. Split up the party, whether for an entire adventure or just for a single encounter. Being alone is far scarier than being in a place with your buddies. * Making the unknown out of the known. Never call a spade a spade. Don't call the monster an orc - call it a fearsome, massive humanoid with large tusks growing out of its deformed face. Again, descriptions have to come in double. * Take away the numbers. Keep track of your players' hit points for them, as well as their spot and listen checks. If you have to, roll everything yourself. This will stop the players from thinking of the game as a numbers game, and more into an actual situation. * Fudge your descriptions. Don't say the monster missed. Say that his hideously outsized claws slashed just inches from the player's face, leaving tiny scratches along his skin that sting fiercely. Soon, they'll be questioning everything, without you having to resort to cheating.
Stumm_Dolch 07-03-06, 10:14 AM	* Take away the numbers. Keep track of your players' hit points for them, as well as their spot and listen checks. If you have to, roll everything yourself. This will stop the players from thinking of the game as a numbers game, and more into an actual situation. This is a great idea... I already do this for passive skills, but I may do the HP thing in a few encounters that come between major events to keep the creep factor of adventuring in the wilds.