Post/Author/DateTime	Post
True Cavalier 04-13-07, 09:01 AM	So basically, the BBEG in my current game is a beautiful, female, human-looking Half-Fiend, that walks "alongside" the PCs till they defeat the defeat the obvious baddies and she can finish their own quest for power. The thing is, I'm not sure what's a good boss class, at this point. In past campaigns I've tried clerics of evil gods, dragon wizards, and pure fighters, but this time I'm stumped. The half-fiend has been around for 2-3 sessions and I still haven't sketched up her character sheet because I'm out of ideas. The thing is... fighter? Too simple... I want her to have aces up her sleeve. Rogue? That's good for harassing, but when the time comes for the final fight, it's usually too simple. Wizard/Sorcerer? That's cool for a tough Dragon, but for a physically weak half-fiend, it can be disastrous if the PCs so much as win initiative. Normally I'd just go with cleric, but I did that in the last campaign. Do you fellow DMs have a "favored class" when it comes to Baddies? Perhaps something that combines magic/tricks and physical toughness; I was looking at the Duskblade earlier, is it any good? I wasn't very impressed... I have almost all the "complete" books too, so feel free to suggest prestige classes. In fact, the more hard to find, the better, it means I'll be able to surprise my players even more...
Sunic_Flames 04-13-07, 09:05 AM	How evil are you feeling? If the answer is "very", write up a nice multiclassed gish type character, charop forum style. If it absolutely must be single classed, psion (telepath) works rather well in that role.
rmccowen 04-13-07, 09:15 AM	If you have access to the PHBII, Beguiler might be a good fit for a sneaky magic-user. For someone who can toss off tough magic as well as fight toe-to-toe if need be, straight cleric is always an excellent choice (if you've got Fiendish Codex I, a half-fiend cleric of Malcanthet might fit nicely). I suppose the "right" class really depends on what her plans are, and how you see her role in (eventual) combat with the PCs.
starfire311 04-13-07, 09:33 AM	There must be something good in complete scoundral for this situation, just not familiar with book to think of it now and I am AFB. You can also try an enlightened fist, this can work pretty cool for an unassuming villianess. They may not even think her a threat if she is unarmed.
TempusELoT 04-13-07, 10:41 AM	If you wanted to go a bit extreme, you can make her a quasi-deity. It makes for a tough villain, but with no divine powers. And I concur with the psion (telepath) idea. They make for a very insidious villain, able to turn the characters against each other. Hmmm... I sense a backstory forming... succubus ancestor anyone?:schemes:
illyrus 04-13-07, 11:05 AM	You can always give her allies for the final fight. Heck she could hire lower level adventurers to protect her from the "evil PCs" when she decides to turn on them. BBEG: And then I found out they secretly were working for Vecna and had been planning to kill me all along. They wear rings of misdirection attuned to children they have kidnapped and tortured. Please help me fight them. *Bluff* NPC Party Leader: We will help you fair lady. A bard might be good in this role. Give her a high UMD to be able to cast what she needs to with scrolls, wands, and staves. Her base HP would be a bit low, but with spellcasting and greatness she can easily bring that up to past fighter level.
Kensan_Oni 04-13-07, 11:09 AM	It's obvious. She's a rogue, specilized in disguising herself to get close to her goals. She'd have Bluff, Disguise, Decipher Script (For Forgery), Slight of Hand, Hide, Move Silently, and so forth.
Stormbrand 04-13-07, 11:59 AM	Bard/Lyric Thaumaturge - fits with her modus operandi of manipulating people, gives her a variety of different uses and options, makes her beauty more meaningful than a chainmail bikini. Different roles make her more surprising. When working with the party use Bardic Music and thrown weapons to fill a support role (so she is useful, but does not overshadow or compete with party, giving people bonuses makes them like you), when against the party cripple them en masse with a Sonic Might enhanced Resounding Thunder. Versitility makes it difficult to catalogue her abilities. That and she can easily dupe/charm/fascinate NPCs into hindering the party. Or, Hexblade/Blackguard - Good synergy between the CHA focus, d10 HD and combat ability. Makes excellent use of the racial ability bonuses. Mettle and fantastic saves are good as well. Make good use of having both a fiendish companion and a familiar. Take an unholy warhorse, give it barding and use the Share Spells link to be deadly in combat. Meanwhile, exploit the crow familiar and the empathic link, since you can use it as a mouthpiece to communicate orders to minions and allies, possibly preparing ambushes without ever leaving the party. :evillaugh :plotting: Be creative with your spell lists, since neither class provides powerful magic, instead use it right and cause havoc. Hound of Doom can make an effective ally in combat (using your BAB for example, armour it somehow and make the most of high CHA for AC). For this combination, Feats such as Battle Caster and Divine Shield work well. Don't bother with weapon tree feats, you cannot spare the investment and the bonus is minimal. Both combinations have sufficient social skills to make excellent masterminds.
starfire311 04-13-07, 12:05 PM	Paladin, they will never see it coming, when she judges them evil, and in need of termination.
True Cavalier 04-13-07, 12:11 PM	First of all, thanks for the quick responses :D Now I forgot to mention, no psionics in my campaign setting. The Beguiler is an interesting idea... But a little too puny on offensive power, to be scary once fight begins. Which book is Lyric Thaumaturge from? Hexblade/Blackguard... alright that sounds good. I had forgotten about Hexblade, need to re-read that :) One of my players has Complete Warrior but I doubt he's really looked into the class.
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-13-07, 12:15 PM	I would say rogue. Simple, yes, but not when you combine it with a high Use Magic Device modifier. A high-level rogue with enough spell scrolls can be on par with a wizard. Also, she needs friends. Either give her decent monster-summoning items, or give her a few fiendish buddies to help with flanking, healing, etc.
philipk 04-13-07, 12:18 PM	If you have ToB, SwordSage/Warblades focusing in shadow hand can sure throw a spanner in the works of most PCs plans (especially if they've never seen one before :D ).
True Cavalier 04-13-07, 12:18 PM	She'll definetely have friends, I hate it when my players gang up on my NPCs 4-to-1. Tome of Battle? Unfortunately, no... I was looking at the Hexblade spell list now, and I think I'm sold :)
nlentz88 04-13-07, 12:19 PM	How about a wizard or sorcerer with augmented summoning? She doesn't need to be physically tough herself, since she'll be able to summon her own meat shields.
Vharuck 04-13-07, 12:24 PM	Duskblade? Armor, swords, and spell slinging powers.
Cantankerous 04-13-07, 12:40 PM	Wizard/Sorcerer? That's cool for a tough Dragon, but for a physically weak half-fiend, it can be disastrous if the PCs so much as win initiative. It all depends on YOUR abilities. Give me a "physicly weak" half-fiend Sorcerer and four levels over the party and I'll make the disguised Dragon of the same CR look like a pansy. At the same time, as has been mentioned, some nice Augmented Summonings, especially with alternate Summoning Lists in use, and it's really starting to look like party time. A Sorcerer/Thaumaturgist can be a real pian in the rear and the half fiend template makes that even stronger. Of course there is NOTHING weak about a +4 to Str&Dex and a+2 to Con anyway, but... Still, if you have Complete Arcane take a look at Warlock and maybe augment THAT latter on with a good high mobility Fighter based prestige Class. They may not have alot of tricks, but the ones they have are nasty in the extreme if you build it right. Add something that enhances their offense and defenses a touch and they can be down right awesome. Isshia
High Octane 04-13-07, 01:01 PM	Warlock. Nothing says evil like dark magic flame coming from your hands over and over like some bad 80s saturday morning cartoon villain. Or a Spellthief. Nothing says evil like a well placed sneak attack on the party wizard stealing that oh so nice cone of cold to be used against him and his party. But....if you want TRUE class.... Favored soul of Vecna.
kelvinaw273 04-13-07, 01:47 PM	Whatever the party need the most and will come to rely on. But I would say multi-class her, have her a level or two above them but not obviously so. Multi-classes are good for defensive strength, and they'll underestimate how powerful she can be offensively for it.
Senevri 04-13-07, 01:52 PM	Rogue, Bard, something ToB...
Escef 04-13-07, 01:58 PM	I was looking at the Hexblade spell list now, and I think I'm sold :) Hexblade is also a fast track into Arcane Archer. Her minions keep the PCs busy while she rains arrows upon them. You could come up with a similar build with Ranger.
Stormbrand 04-13-07, 02:18 PM	First of all, thanks for the quick responses :D Now I forgot to mention, no psionics in my campaign setting. The Beguiler is an interesting idea... But a little too puny on offensive power, to be scary once fight begins. Which book is Lyric Thaumaturge from? Hexblade/Blackguard... alright that sounds good. I had forgotten about Hexblade, need to re-read that :) One of my players has Complete Warrior but I doubt he's really looked into the class. Complete Mage. It is like a bard but with much improved magic.
doink1212 04-13-07, 02:24 PM	I love Warlocks, and Depending how you multiclass they can actually stand some melee. Multi Fighter/Warlock can be quite nasty with Hideous blow and a decent weapon like a spiked chain or a greatsword. Warmage can be a fun BBEG but not necessairly in this case. Hexblade, Duskblade, able to mix spellcasting with strong melee. A D10 hit die makes everyone :)
Aminvelos 04-13-07, 02:55 PM	TOB-Crusader, the chaotic kind.
JimRuh 04-14-07, 08:28 AM	I have a half fiend wizard/ass, walking around with a half dragon(red) monk/ass Tactics are to let the monk walk into battle and then the half fiend drops a fireball on the monk. They are lead by a half storm giant dread pirate, turned businessman. I always like having my bbeg's with class.
Mulkr 04-14-07, 11:26 AM	Multiclass with equal levels in ranger, wizard,and bard. At least 2 levels above the party, if not more. Make sure that you have enough points of Int. to get some nice wizard bonus spells. If your feeling really evil, include a few levels of druid, enough to get a Dire bat animal companion, and try to make it enlightened, so that it can take a few levels in druid itself, and so it can take a Dire bat as its animal companion, get it enlightened, and so on and so forth. Also, summon dire bats like theres no tomorrow. (The dire bats are for flavor, and flying power.) Now we'll see whos laughing when a swarm of, instead of regular bats, dire bats fly in. Though having a summon swarm spell for her would be good. I mean, Wild shape her into a dire bat too for dramatic escapes, and you can give her a cape of the bat so, without using up a wildshape, she can fly up like a bat, hang from the ceiling, etc. They'll think shes a vampire for a while, if your lucky. Imagine, they figure out shes not a vampire when they whip out the holy water and nothin happens!:P
Mulkr 04-14-07, 11:27 AM	oh, and blackguard and assain levels too, later on.
Flan 04-14-07, 01:11 PM	The BB-half-fiend-EG in Shackled City is a sorcerer. Yes, he died pretty quickly as you say once we started hitting him, but not after the surprise round where the empowered cone of cone slew 2/3 of the party first.
dragor_shadowfury 04-14-07, 04:35 PM	ghost-faced killer from CAdv is awsome: frightful strike the tank, if he's just a bit ordinary, he'll go down. Then move on to the sneaker, using ghost step to repeat the success.
feartheinvinceblehamster 04-14-07, 04:47 PM	It probably depends on the party. Do us all a favor, and post the class/level makeup of the party.
turalisj 04-14-07, 06:11 PM	If you wanted to go a bit extreme, you can make her a quasi-deity. It makes for a tough villain, but with no divine powers. And I concur with the psion (telepath) idea. They make for a very insidious villain, able to turn the characters against each other. Hmmm... I sense a backstory forming... succubus ancestor anyone?:schemes: Or go with levels of Ardent. Get the evil, deception, chaos, and perhaps consumption mantles, picking up extra mantle if need be. If you want hard to find, try a 3rd-party book.
Edymnion 04-14-07, 07:52 PM	MulticlassThank you, I'm glad somebody actually said it. Nobody ever said they had to be a single class. Make her a Monk/Ranger with Favored Enemy (whatever most of the party is). She walks around half naked not because its sexy (well, partially for that), but because she loses her monk abilities. Or if you have a variety of races in the party, do a Monk/Rogue. Hit them with stunning fist, then sneak attack them. There's no need to pull out a bunch of freak base classes from every book WotC has ever published when you can recreate the feel of 90% of them by simply multiclassing the PHB classes and doing a little roleplaying on your own instead of just parroting what some book shoves under your nose. Or get more creative, Barbarian/Bard. Lots of knowledge, minor spellcasting abilities, damage reduction, and simply describe Rage as "fighting with abandon" instead of some cliche pidgeon holed slobbering anger.
True Cavalier 04-14-07, 08:05 PM	There's no need to pull out a bunch of freak base classes from every book WotC has ever published when you can recreate the feel of 90% of them by simply multiclassing the PHB classes and doing a little roleplaying on your own instead of just parroting what some book shoves under your nose. Of course, but I want to. So that my players will go "What the... *censored* " when she pulls a freaky class feature on them. :rolleyes: Probably going to multiclass with some normal and some wacky stuff. I've got my eye on Hexblade and Dervish right now. I'll look up Ghost-Faced Killer later :) Which book is Ardent from?
Farmer_Tom_Cotton 04-14-07, 08:08 PM	What does "walks "alongside" the PCs" mean?" If she knows the PCs well enough, then just give her a lot of money and make her whatever you want. If she knows the PCs are coming after her then she will hire the right "help". Buy the right items. If you want skills, make her a bard,thief or noble with high chr skills and a good int. This is real good if she gets on the good side of a large society. Then the characters have to work through a whole city to get at her. But this is just my solution for a BBEG with little "internal" power.
turalisj 04-14-07, 08:24 PM	Of course, but I want to. So that my players will go "What the... *censored* " when she pulls a freaky class feature on them. :rolleyes: Probably going to multiclass with some normal and some wacky stuff. I've got my eye on Hexblade and Dervish right now. I'll look up Ghost-Faced Killer later :) Which book is Ardent from? CompletePsi. The Mantles are almost the equivelent of a cleric's domains. Evil mantle gives you a bonus against good guys, chaos gives you a bonus against lawfull ones. Deception mantle is all about lying, and consumption is just thrown in there for fun.
Edymnion 04-15-07, 06:20 PM	Of course, but I want to. So that my players will go "What the... *censored* " when she pulls a freaky class feature on them. :rolleyes:And what class feature is out there that you can't replicate with "normal" class features and some creative descriptions?
True Cavalier 04-15-07, 06:33 PM	And what class feature is out there that you can't replicate with "normal" class features and some creative descriptions? Dervish Dance and A Thousand Cuts just by looking at one of my options. And I have to explain myself now, because..? :P
Enigmous 04-15-07, 07:55 PM	If you have access to the PHBII, Beguiler might be a good fit for a sneaky magic-user. For someone who can toss off tough magic as well as fight toe-to-toe if need be, straight cleric is always an excellent choice (if you've got Fiendish Codex I, a half-fiend cleric of Malcanthet might fit nicely). I suppose the "right" class really depends on what her plans are, and how you see her role in (eventual) combat with the PCs. I would agree. Since the half fiend isn't physically strong, have the group kill its self.
Nephlite 04-15-07, 08:04 PM	Tome of Magic's Binder is pretty cool. Best part each day she can use different forms to bind if you want.
TheAngryFish 04-15-07, 08:12 PM	I kinda like Eldritch Knight, the half-fiend bonuses could help the spell-casting and fighting aspect; with some transmutation spells, you could get some serious mellee capability, especially with something like rage (the spell), tensor's transformation,and iron body if it's high level. In addition, you get a couple bonus feats and other spells for utility or damage.
Enigmous 04-15-07, 08:38 PM	Eldritch Knight is considered underpowered by some. Go wizard/warshaper for massive polymorph. THen again, your group might be too low for that, I didn't read what level they are.
UnrelentingHoror 04-15-07, 08:44 PM	Thank you, I'm glad somebody actually said it. Nobody ever said they had to be a single class. Make her a Monk/Ranger with Favored Enemy (whatever most of the party is). She walks around half naked not because its sexy (well, partially for that), but because she loses her monk abilities. Or if you have a variety of races in the party, do a Monk/Rogue. Hit them with stunning fist, then sneak attack them. There's no need to pull out a bunch of freak base classes from every book WotC has ever published when you can recreate the feel of 90% of them by simply multiclassing the PHB classes and doing a little roleplaying on your own instead of just parroting what some book shoves under your nose. Or get more creative, Barbarian/Bard. Lots of knowledge, minor spellcasting abilities, damage reduction, and simply describe Rage as "fighting with abandon" instead of some cliche pidgeon holed slobbering anger. Yeah I agree, you don't really need to whip out a bunch of wierd classes or go the copout caster route. I'd say go the physical route, quite possibly with some backstab damage in there. Shes a half-fiend right? Half-fiends get a slew of spell like abilities right? Build the character to take advantage of those, blind fighting for the darkness spells, and possibly quicken spell like ability on unholy smite and blasphemy. Also I think theres a feat somewhere that gives you extra uses of spell like abilities, pick it up for unholy smite. Why do these you ask? Well if your partys mostly good, you'll be able to toss out your tempincapacitating spells and maybe do a sneak attack in the same round, for several rounds. You'll probably be starting out in the midle of them from the scenario you gave so it should give them a good run, and dropping a darkness spell to hedge things in your favour with blindfight is nice too.:devil: Just an idea, it may be kind of a substandard build but it should make for a memorable encounter.:D
GhostStepper 04-15-07, 08:49 PM	I dont care for melee oriented BBEGs myself because unless they are optimized to be able to kill any given party member with uber damage in about one round or atleast be highly mobile they get hammered by everyone. It really helps to have a build that can easily negate a few of the PCs' main strengths and its hard to do with with a melee build since it charges in there and gets romped on by the PC meleers, the rogue, the casters, ect, since everyone in the party can reach them. If you go this route, you absolutely need some means of flight and/or teleportation so that you dont get pounded into the ground in a round or 2. Its much easier to be deadly, tricky or just plain original with a caster. They have the mobility to get around and not be the constant target of the melee PCs or rogues as well as having magical counters to things the casters try. I think the most versatile and deadly BBEG you can make is an artificer. With the right equipment they can cast any spell and can easily have atleast 6 good buff spells persisted at one time. Since they are one-encounter NPCs, you can afford to go nuts with the wands and staffs and blow all their charges for effects with 5 metamagics stacked on them. Best of all, if they blow through all the charges youve given the PCs a tough encounter and they are left only with used up wands/staffs/scrolls at the end. If i were to make such an NPC, id buff her to the gills before the encounter so that she could fly, be invisible, have SR, see in magical darkness, have uber AC, ect, as well as having some choice protective items (ring of counterspelling for example). Having some choice Contingency spells crafted is a must if you want her to be a reoccuring villain (like Teleport for example) and if she survives, as an arfiticer she can totally rearange her combat abilities to match the PC's tactics by swaping out her equipment.. Why do these you ask? Well if your partys mostly good, you'll be able to toss out your tempincapacitating spells and maybe do a sneak attack in the same round, for several rounds. You'll probably be starting out in the midle of them from the scenario you gave so it should give them a good run, and dropping a darkness spell to hedge things in your favour with blindfight is nice too.:devil: Just an idea, it may be kind of a substandard build but it should make for a memorable encounter.:D Thats all good, but you cant sneak attack in magical darkness if all you have is blindfight. You could make her a rogue with UMD and an artificer buddy (or make her the artificer and the rogues her henchmen). The rogues all get wraithstrike persisted from a wand/scroll and have ebon eyes cast before combat. At the begining of combat the artificer casts Blacklight (or have all the rogues cast it from wands) on a rock and throws it amidst the party. The rouges could all be invisible prior to the encounter (Invisibility, Swift persisted from wands) and could all have Blacklight cast on their blades just before combat. If they get the drop on your party the entire area is enveloped in absolute darkness and unless they have a warlock or caster with ebon eyes, they get to roll in there and sneak attack the hell out of everyone while they are blind.
UnrelentingHoror 04-16-07, 01:51 AM	Thats all good, but you cant sneak attack in magical darkness if all you have is blindfight. You could make her a rogue with UMD and an artificer buddy (or make her the artificer and the rogues her henchmen). The rogues all get wraithstrike persisted from a wand/scroll and have ebon eyes cast before combat. At the begining of combat the artificer casts Blacklight (or have all the rogues cast it from wands) on a rock and throws it amidst the party. The rouges could all be invisible prior to the encounter (Invisibility, Swift persisted from wands) and could all have Blacklight cast on their blades just before combat. If they get the drop on your party the entire area is enveloped in absolute darkness and unless they have a warlock or caster with ebon eyes, they get to roll in there and sneak attack the hell out of everyone while they are blind. Yeah, I'm aware of that. I was more refering to unholy smite(or blight or whatever its called) and blasphemy having some effects on them that, unless I'm remembering incorectly (which could well be the case, I'm no rules diva) COULD potentially open up some PCs to some sneak attacks with them being quickened and all. The magic darkness+ blindfight is just to hedge melee combat a little bit in her favour as a possible option. Also he might keep in mind, now that I think about it, that half-fiends are immune to poison. Hence could use poison without worrying about being exposed. Also as for the mobility thing, she has wings so could escape kind of well-ish. Well I guess getting to my point, I was simply offering the option to the OP that if he was definately using a template and or race, why not look to that for what he wants the BBEG to be able to do First before looking for a class. I mean I use a descent amount of caster BBEG for the same reasons you cited, but it's nice to change it up every once in a while.