Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kadrimdorian_Mage 05-20-07, 09:55 PM	I'm a relativly new DM. That's not the problem. I DM the only group my players and I know of within 10 miles or so. That's not the problem. One of my players can't concentrate, and hopelessly deylays our game, so that none of us can play. That's the problem. I try to get through what was planned to be 15 minutes of story and talking, and with this player, it takes 2 hours. That's a BIG problem!!! I can't let him leave, because he is the best friend of everyone at the table, and no one would play without him. How can I keep interested a player that needs action every 2 minutes, but still create a meaningfull storyline for the rest of my players? Telling him to leave is NOT an option.
AffableDoomwalker 05-20-07, 09:57 PM	Telling him to leave is NOT an option. Kill his character, have him reincarnated as an asexual half-elf bard. Problem solved.
Kadrimdorian_Mage 05-20-07, 10:02 PM	But he would leave the gaming group, and people would go anyway. I'm looking for something that I could do better.
Dazzer 05-20-07, 10:08 PM	Well, I know I'm boring but 1.) Talk to him about it, explain your case calmly. 2.) Talk to the other players about how to deal with the problem, do they think it is a problem? 3.) Have a big chat with everyone involved. This is how you do this, if 1 fails, do 2, if 2 is that they don't mind, stop worrying and try and let it pass. If 2 turns out to be that they all do mind, then do 3. If 3 fails, then your friend is beyond redemption, and nothing can be done...save for this, http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/04/10 If this fails, well.....perhaps keeping him unconcious until battle times and things he concentrates for will work?
Kadrimdorian_Mage 05-20-07, 10:24 PM	I'll be sure to try that, thanks. Any other options would be great, though.
Murrdox 05-20-07, 11:14 PM	I'd need a bit more information to really weigh in well. Generally speaking, if someone is not concentrating on the game, then that usually means that the person is not INTERESTED in the game. Is there something about your game which doesn't jive with his playing style? Does he only love combat, and hates roleplaying, for example? I'd try to maybe cater the campaign to suit his tastes a bit. However, the rest of your party seems to be having a great time, so this might not be the best choice. What distracts his concentration? Reading the rulebooks? Playing on his laptop? Then disallow these things at the table.
Kouk 05-21-07, 12:51 AM	Some people like roleplaying more than fighting. Some people like fighting more than roleplaying. If he is causing trouble by being disinterested and he starts talking about sports or whatever then he is being disruptive. I assume that is what you mean by making something take longer. If he was just disinterested he might sit and ignore everything, allowing the rest of the party to handle the "talking parts". If you very strongly feel that there should be some RP, then talk with him and let him know it is important to you. Allow him to leave the room to go play gameboy or something quietly so as to not disturb others (no doing anything where the rest of the party can see or hear him). A good suggestion is to start sessions with fights as early as possible so people can get the "I wanna roll dice and kill stuff" out of their systems for a while. That way they may be more calm for the roleplay - but it isn't always possible or believable. You should poll the rest of the players and see what they think also. A group consensus is best. It is fine to change to be a kick-in-the-door style campaign if that would be what the players want. Someone has to make a compromise somewhere, and it is usually best to go with the majority to keep the most people happy.
Kaldric 05-21-07, 03:25 AM	You're stuck with this group, I see. All of the above suggestions are reasonable, but sometimes people just don't change, no matter how reasonable you are. One thing that might help in that kind of situation is to change the play dynamic. Find someone else to be the DM for a night or two. Maybe even the disruptive guy. It'll shake things up, anyway.
JerBar 05-21-07, 04:06 AM	Is it at all possable to intermix the two? Role playing and action? Have some of the story going on during a battle and between each round have a short (no more then a few minutes of) monolouge? It's true that this would cause the fight to drag on longer then just getting right to it, and it might break up the dramatic feeling you are trying to build, but over all it might help everyone get what they want out of the game. It's way too late at night for me to come up with any examples that would make any sense.
Kadrimdorian_Mage 05-21-07, 10:39 PM	Thanks guys. The ideas are great. I think that this guy might be a bit less trouble now.
Stormbright 05-21-07, 11:27 PM	Okay, I'll pitch in on this one. It's a little unclear if your problem player is just... A) Unable to comprehend what you're saying. B) Unable to focus on game to exclusion of other distractions C) Uninterested It could be any of these (or other) problems, and each should be dealt with differently A) Some players are NOT AUDATORY PEOPLE. They cannot just listen to what you're saying and follow up with a reasonable action because their brains don't function that way. That doesn't mean they're stupid. It just means that they REALLY DO need for you to DRAW THEM A MAP/PICTURE. I'm one of those types. I try to follow along, and take notes to change the audial into visual. I play better with minis, not just a verbal description of what's what. Often though I just find myself waiting for the action and jumping in at that point (though I do have the best notes at the end of the game). B) Some people are too busy chatting or socializing. They cannot focus on the game. This is an atmosphere problem. If the game is taking place in the same place you would otherwise be hanging out, playing video games and talking about the day's events, then don't be suprised if that's what ends up happening, even if you INTEND to be playing DND. Set the table exclusively with DND. Find some theme music (nothing cheesy, just a Braveheart soundtrack or something similarly evocative) Schedule time to take a break from the game where people can chat it up before or after the game, but make the game the focus when you are playing. To that end, anyone acting out of character can begin by missing actions or being punched in the solar plexus by the Dungeonmaster Avatar (yes, do something ludicrous). C) If he's just uninterested, play as if his character was an NPC. If you can make things happen without him, go ahead. If he thinks to take an action from time to time, let him, but otherwise don't count his character when planning the balance of your game, and then it won't matter if his character spends half the battle "securing the pack horses" or spends the next dungeon-crawl "cataloging the teams' inventory" back at the entrance.
Dragonchild 05-22-07, 02:52 AM	You can't change people, and bullying them isn't the answer, so don't make the mistake of using your power over the rules to resolve the issue. The DM has another means of control: pace. Just don't wait on him. If he goofs around in combat, limit his thinking time to twenty seconds. If he hasn't decided by then, he loses his action. If he gets sidetracked, just cut him off and continue DM-ing. If it takes only fifteen minutes to explain something, explain it in fifteen minutes! And don't scold if they're not paying attention. Just keep moving. They had their chance to listen; they blew it. Move on. You can't turn him into a good player, but you can keep one person from taking control of the game. That's because control is yours to lose.
ColonelPanic 05-22-07, 05:38 AM	Just don't wait on him. If he goofs around in combat, limit his thinking time to twenty seconds. If he hasn't decided by then, he loses his action. If he gets sidetracked, just cut him off and continue DM-ing. If it takes only fifteen minutes to explain something, explain it in fifteen minutes! And don't scold if they're not paying attention. Just keep moving. They had their chance to listen; they blew it. Move on. Just begin your sequence with: - Listen carefully, 'cause I say will this only once. When the other players realize they will miss vital info for the progress and survival of their PCs, they will yell shut up! as soon as he starts to get side tracked.
Kadrimdorian_Mage 05-22-07, 08:14 PM	Just don't wait on him. If he goofs around in combat, limit his thinking time to twenty seconds. If he hasn't decided by then, he loses his action. If he gets sidetracked, just cut him off and continue DM-ing. If it takes only fifteen minutes to explain something, explain it in fifteen minutes! And don't scold if they're not paying attention. Just keep moving. They had their chance to listen; they blew it. Move on. You're going to think that this is pathetic, but that wasn't even real story, just enough town interaction to keep the players satisfied, and they used the time to do nothing. I couldn't move on becausethe other player was drawing the whole group's attention. The story explanations were supposed to take two to five minutes, tops.
CryoSilver 05-22-07, 08:17 PM	Dangle a shiny object in front of him when you need to explain something.
Dragonchild 05-22-07, 09:45 PM	You're going to think that this is pathetic, but that wasn't even real story, just enough town interaction to keep the players satisfied, and they used the time to do nothing. I couldn't move on becausethe other player was drawing the whole group's attention. The story explanations were supposed to take two to five minutes, tops.In that case, start role-playing the NPC's. Just because the PC's are screwing around doesn't mean the world will stand still for them. Friendly NPC's will excuse themselves and go on about their business; neutral NPC's will grow impatient and leave; enemies will continue scheming and strike if the timing is right. You grab attention by making time important. Don't demand attention; that'll just start a fight. Instead, as DM, make what you say more meaningful than anyone else's.
pmurray@bigpond.com 05-22-07, 11:17 PM	A good suggestion is to start sessions with fights as early as possible so people can get the "I wanna roll dice and kill stuff" out of their systems for a while. Seconded. One of the DMs in our group always starts the session with a fight. The rule is: no opening of food at the table till after the first encounter. It works really well. Gets out attention, gets the night rolling.
ColonelPanic 05-23-07, 06:49 AM	Seconded. One of the DMs in our group always starts the session with a fight. The rule is: no opening of food at the table till after the first encounter. It works really well. Gets out attention, gets the night rolling. The adventures for the James Bond 007 RPG from 1984, always started like a James Bond movie, with a teaser. To start off a DnD Adventure like that it would probably go something like this. "You have just climbed the castle wall to the small Caste of Wiggnoth, where the Urgutch secret church has a gathering. Below you see 6 black dressed priests of Urgutch, preparing some kind of cermony, and on a pile of wood, two beautiful young girls are bound, and one of the priests now comes carrying a torch. What do you do?"
RobbyPants 05-23-07, 11:39 AM	Have the player put more ranks in Concentration? :P On a more serious note, the best thing to do (as others have said) is talk to him about it. If that doesn't solve the problem, go on without him. I'm not saying you kick him out or anything, but rather, you ask him what he's doing (in or out of combat), and if he keeps ignoring you or gets side tracked, have him go into zombie-drooling-statis mode. He loses his round in combat, doesn't get to buy/sell loot, or simply doesn't participate in the in-game conversation. If the others are willing to pay attention, let them make the decisions. If this bothers said player, then hopefully he'll start paying attention when it comes time for him to do something. Perhaps give him a break the first time (allow him to take his action, if he pays attention), but if talking to him doesn't work, then he need some form of consequences to get his behavior to change.
pmurray@bigpond.com 05-23-07, 08:38 PM	One of my players can't concentrate, and hopelessly deylays our game, so that none of us can play. ... I can't let him leave, because he is the best friend of everyone at the table, and no one would play without him. Ok. You are DMming a rock star and his groupies, and you IRL do not have a high enough charisma to compete. If this is going to work at all, then this guy has got to be the centre of attention - make the whole damn campaign hinge on his uber character. But if he'd simply rather bask in adulation than play, you are hosed. Sorry dude.
jagraham 05-23-07, 09:45 PM	The adventures for the James Bond 007 RPG from 1984, always started like a James Bond movie, with a teaser. To start off a DnD Adventure like that it would probably go something like this. "You have just climbed the castle wall to the small Caste of Wiggnoth, where the Urgutch secret church has a gathering. Below you see 6 black dressed priests of Urgutch, preparing some kind of cermony, and on a pile of wood, two beautiful young girls are bound, and one of the priests now comes carrying a torch. What do you do?" 1984, oh man.... The teaser or fight right off the bat is something I like to do as well. It gets everybody focused fast, and when is over, the party is discussing how to divide the loot and who needs healing, rather than PS3 games. In-town interaction is boring. It is also the #1 cause of parties going evil when they start killing the locals for lack of valid targets. Like a movie, time is limited, so every part must advance the story or cut it. Only roleplay NPCs that are part of the story and dispense other bits like buying equipment and all that. Write down the points that need to be made and check them off.
tyrecian 05-23-07, 10:04 PM	lol i had a player that played video games through the roleplaying and all the other PCs were so bat-shite stoned that they would simply stare at the video game, didnt matter what game. finally i woudl have to turn off the game. In the end the player quit the group, we found a new house to play in, and now we trade video games and see him every few months. Sometimes people arent cut out for DnD, it isnt fast enough, and you can't press "X" to skip to the killing.
Kadrimdorian_Mage 05-24-07, 11:21 PM	I think I might try to get a session without him and see how it goes, then have a discussion with the group to try and get them to be a little more independant. Thanks guys.