Big Dungeons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Big Dungeons [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
lifespeed
03-15-05, 02:29 PM Poking around at Unermountain and discussing the cool possibilities of a campaign set entirely within a great big dungeon, it got me wondering about what kind of huge dungeons people have run. So...

What's the biggest dungeon you've ever run/played in, and what kind of crazy crap happened in it?
Dalin
03-15-05, 05:05 PM The biggest dungeon i have ever done consisted of 5 rooms. I prefere doing overground adventures, mainly based in cities. I've always been afraid of making dungeons, not quite sure why they just seem unintresting when I create them, and I can't get the excitement across in the same way that others can when i've been a humble player.
Loftower
03-15-05, 08:40 PM My players are currently in a “dungeon” setting covering about 15 square miles. This area exits to other underground areas of similar size before exiting to the surface.

The most important things for a huge dungeon:
Don’t force the characters to go everywhere: it gets boring. Expect them to find what they’re looking for and move on. Sending them on an adventure to “clear” a huge dungeon is just a perpetual dungeon-crawl. I guess that’s OK if that’s what your group is into, but I wouldn’t do it.
Don’t make them search everything. This can be tough – how do you place a trap and then set them up to reasonably be searching? If you make them be “on guard” everywhere in a huge area they get nothing done.
Don’t fill it with monsters. One advantage of the huge dungeon is that you can have more realistic distributions, possibly including incompatible species which survive because they don’t encounter each other often. Space the carnivores out.
Zoom in & out like when describing above ground areas. You don’t describe every 50 feet of the meadow in detail as they pass through, so let some of the underground areas go by with minimal description. Give them the goods for something interesting, like you would if they found some abandoned shrine half-buried in the meadow.
Don’t overwork it. Don’t drive yourself crazy putting it together. Again, treat it more like you would an outdoor setting and just concentrate on the interesting bits.
LadyCreator
03-15-05, 08:52 PM I've never done a huge dungeon, but I've had it in mind for awhile to do a "Journey to the Center of the Earth" campaign, with the entire thing set underground. It's just a thought, but I think that would make a really great theme.
BW0222
03-15-05, 09:29 PM In 3.x, big dungeons don't work like you think.

In previous versions, combat was extremely quick and you could get away without figs and a battle map. It took 5 minutes to clear a room. You could easily explore two or three dozen rooms (even occupied) per play session, even if occupied. One can map a dungeon on graph paper without any problem.

3.x works differently. The DM typically draws all the rooms/passages on the battle map for the players to move their figs. As soon as you don't draw everything, players immediately know that you won't have combat. I've even had DMs show us the map, told us what is in each room, then finally draw out those rooms with the combat in it. Kind of cheesy, but I honestly can't see spending hours drawing out so many empty rooms. In many cases, the size of the maps exceed that of the battle maps, so you would be erasing and re-drawing the same sections over and over.

There is also a big difference in combat. In 3.x, the monsters are way tougher. They get the same feats, scores, etc. which you do. One can only go three maybe four encounters without rest needed. Your ownly typical advantages are a better mixture of classes/abilities, one or two hit dice, and maybe a slight magic advantage. The CRs and APLs of most modules assume that each encounter drains 25% of your resources. i.e. after three combats, you've used 75% of your spells. You thus, need to get out, rest, and come back.

I've never seen a dungeon complex which has taken more than a couple of sessions to go through.

The largest I've been through in a four hour session was four stories, three rooms per level, and a total of six combat encounters. However, we were prepared, completely buffed, and moving extremely quickly. Time was a known issue.

As a DM, I once put a large fortress into a game. However, the PCs needed to sneak in through the sewer system. Despite the size of the place, it took two 4 hour sessions to make it through. I managed to get an idea of the scale of the place, but without having to go through hundreds of rooms.
Dreaming_in_the_void
03-15-05, 10:05 PM My largest dungeon was called "The Temple of Asmodeous".

It began above ground looking more or less like a tower, but the above ground structure was basically a guarded entrance to an underground city. It was about the size of medium city and took more graph paper than I care to admit to finish.

It was a fully functional city with a generally infernal religious/apocalyptic motif to the various temples and sacrificial chambers.

It took the PCs about three weeks out of character (8 to 12 hour sessions) to complete. This thing was a meat grinder; you absolutely must have a cleric for extended dungeon crawls in hostile territory, even at high levels.
Jkol the Butcher
03-15-05, 10:43 PM Monte Cook's Banewarrens

-- A ~ 100 pg module
TheRedRobedWizard
03-15-05, 11:05 PM World's Largest Dungeon.

830+ Pages of nearly guaranteed character death.

-TRRW
SnowbearK
03-15-05, 11:50 PM But if you make it through............ :cool:
was_fired
03-16-05, 03:16 AM But if you make it through............ :cool:

If you make it through following their rules you cheat the characters out of a fear years worth of gaming. If you make it through following 3.5 rules you have a bad game which still lasts a year or so.
lifespeed
03-16-05, 08:27 AM I've yet to actually hear anything good about that giant dungeon. I'm sure a good DM could use it well though.
olshanski_home
03-16-05, 10:10 AM Banewarrens was a blast, but then it was spaced out with city intrigue, some outdoor activity, and colorful NPCs.

Worlds Largest dungeon was a snoozefest. The best way to describe it is that it has as much quality encounters as the two best adventures you've ever read, but it is spread out over 20 really boring adventures.

RappanAthuk had interesting encounters, it is far larger than banewarrens, but it is really hit-or miss with the ELs. You could have two levels that are about right for 7th level people, with a level suitable for 11th level people sandwiched in between. It is easy for people to get in over thier heads.

I've never run Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. By the time I got it, all my players either owned it or had previously played it.
VerinBlod
03-16-05, 10:33 AM I mostly design my own dungeons and they tend to be big in size but small in rooms.

As a player the biggest dungeon I ever played in was Rappan Athuk. And like olshanski_home mentioned the dungeon is of differing EL's. But thats why that dungeon is such a killer. You have to be continualy on your toes. On the other hand playing another one such dungeon tends to get boring because of the repetition in them. It's just a large dungeon crawl. So I favour the smaller dungeons more.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lifespeed 03-15-05, 02:29 PM	Poking around at Unermountain and discussing the cool possibilities of a campaign set entirely within a great big dungeon, it got me wondering about what kind of huge dungeons people have run. So... What's the biggest dungeon you've ever run/played in, and what kind of crazy crap happened in it?
Dalin 03-15-05, 05:05 PM	The biggest dungeon i have ever done consisted of 5 rooms. I prefere doing overground adventures, mainly based in cities. I've always been afraid of making dungeons, not quite sure why they just seem unintresting when I create them, and I can't get the excitement across in the same way that others can when i've been a humble player.
Loftower 03-15-05, 08:40 PM	My players are currently in a “dungeon” setting covering about 15 square miles. This area exits to other underground areas of similar size before exiting to the surface. The most important things for a huge dungeon: Don’t force the characters to go everywhere: it gets boring. Expect them to find what they’re looking for and move on. Sending them on an adventure to “clear” a huge dungeon is just a perpetual dungeon-crawl. I guess that’s OK if that’s what your group is into, but I wouldn’t do it. Don’t make them search everything. This can be tough – how do you place a trap and then set them up to reasonably be searching? If you make them be “on guard” everywhere in a huge area they get nothing done. Don’t fill it with monsters. One advantage of the huge dungeon is that you can have more realistic distributions, possibly including incompatible species which survive because they don’t encounter each other often. Space the carnivores out. Zoom in & out like when describing above ground areas. You don’t describe every 50 feet of the meadow in detail as they pass through, so let some of the underground areas go by with minimal description. Give them the goods for something interesting, like you would if they found some abandoned shrine half-buried in the meadow. Don’t overwork it. Don’t drive yourself crazy putting it together. Again, treat it more like you would an outdoor setting and just concentrate on the interesting bits.
LadyCreator 03-15-05, 08:52 PM	I've never done a huge dungeon, but I've had it in mind for awhile to do a "Journey to the Center of the Earth" campaign, with the entire thing set underground. It's just a thought, but I think that would make a really great theme.
BW0222 03-15-05, 09:29 PM	In 3.x, big dungeons don't work like you think. In previous versions, combat was extremely quick and you could get away without figs and a battle map. It took 5 minutes to clear a room. You could easily explore two or three dozen rooms (even occupied) per play session, even if occupied. One can map a dungeon on graph paper without any problem. 3.x works differently. The DM typically draws all the rooms/passages on the battle map for the players to move their figs. As soon as you don't draw everything, players immediately know that you won't have combat. I've even had DMs show us the map, told us what is in each room, then finally draw out those rooms with the combat in it. Kind of cheesy, but I honestly can't see spending hours drawing out so many empty rooms. In many cases, the size of the maps exceed that of the battle maps, so you would be erasing and re-drawing the same sections over and over. There is also a big difference in combat. In 3.x, the monsters are way tougher. They get the same feats, scores, etc. which you do. One can only go three maybe four encounters without rest needed. Your ownly typical advantages are a better mixture of classes/abilities, one or two hit dice, and maybe a slight magic advantage. The CRs and APLs of most modules assume that each encounter drains 25% of your resources. i.e. after three combats, you've used 75% of your spells. You thus, need to get out, rest, and come back. I've never seen a dungeon complex which has taken more than a couple of sessions to go through. The largest I've been through in a four hour session was four stories, three rooms per level, and a total of six combat encounters. However, we were prepared, completely buffed, and moving extremely quickly. Time was a known issue. As a DM, I once put a large fortress into a game. However, the PCs needed to sneak in through the sewer system. Despite the size of the place, it took two 4 hour sessions to make it through. I managed to get an idea of the scale of the place, but without having to go through hundreds of rooms.
Dreaming_in_the_void 03-15-05, 10:05 PM	My largest dungeon was called "The Temple of Asmodeous". It began above ground looking more or less like a tower, but the above ground structure was basically a guarded entrance to an underground city. It was about the size of medium city and took more graph paper than I care to admit to finish. It was a fully functional city with a generally infernal religious/apocalyptic motif to the various temples and sacrificial chambers. It took the PCs about three weeks out of character (8 to 12 hour sessions) to complete. This thing was a meat grinder; you absolutely must have a cleric for extended dungeon crawls in hostile territory, even at high levels.
Jkol the Butcher 03-15-05, 10:43 PM	Monte Cook's Banewarrens -- A ~ 100 pg module
TheRedRobedWizard 03-15-05, 11:05 PM	World's Largest Dungeon. 830+ Pages of nearly guaranteed character death. -TRRW
SnowbearK 03-15-05, 11:50 PM	But if you make it through............ :cool:
was_fired 03-16-05, 03:16 AM	But if you make it through............ :cool: If you make it through following their rules you cheat the characters out of a fear years worth of gaming. If you make it through following 3.5 rules you have a bad game which still lasts a year or so.
lifespeed 03-16-05, 08:27 AM	I've yet to actually hear anything good about that giant dungeon. I'm sure a good DM could use it well though.
olshanski_home 03-16-05, 10:10 AM	Banewarrens was a blast, but then it was spaced out with city intrigue, some outdoor activity, and colorful NPCs. Worlds Largest dungeon was a snoozefest. The best way to describe it is that it has as much quality encounters as the two best adventures you've ever read, but it is spread out over 20 really boring adventures. RappanAthuk had interesting encounters, it is far larger than banewarrens, but it is really hit-or miss with the ELs. You could have two levels that are about right for 7th level people, with a level suitable for 11th level people sandwiched in between. It is easy for people to get in over thier heads. I've never run Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. By the time I got it, all my players either owned it or had previously played it.
VerinBlod 03-16-05, 10:33 AM	I mostly design my own dungeons and they tend to be big in size but small in rooms. As a player the biggest dungeon I ever played in was Rappan Athuk. And like olshanski_home mentioned the dungeon is of differing EL's. But thats why that dungeon is such a killer. You have to be continualy on your toes. On the other hand playing another one such dungeon tends to get boring because of the repetition in them. It's just a large dungeon crawl. So I favour the smaller dungeons more.