Bleeding, stabilizing and the heal skill... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bleeding, stabilizing and the heal skill... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Stormthrone
03-29-06, 04:45 AM Well, I just thought I'd share a little house-rule I've got, you know - in case more DMs have my kind of players... (they are really well behaved, but sometimes they get stuck in the rules...)

When a character go below 0 hp, he's bleeding. There is a chance he'll stabilize on his own, but it's better to get help from someone with the Heal skill, because, as we all know - if the character drops below -10 - he's dead!

Now, to the issue of meta-gaming. Let's say PC1 goes down, his hp at -2. Do your players, as mine did, say things like: "He's got at least 7 rounds before he's dead, I whack the monster again!" or something? Mine did, and it drove me mad!

Thus I added a house-rule: When the character hit negative hp I roll a (hidden) d10. The number I get is the number of rounds before the character dies. (If the fight is hard, or if there is only one with heal, I might add a few rounds as a bonus.) This makes the other players almost jump on top of the fallen comrade in order to stabilize him, much as in real life.

A nifty rule? Or just plain stupidity from my part?
Twinnings
03-29-06, 05:05 AM just tell them there on negatives when they drop below zero dont tell them how much damage they take. That way there comrades have to make an educated guesse on how long thereve got and it might make a simmilar reaction.
Lokathor
03-29-06, 05:09 AM What if you roll that the player has 1 round left to live but they were only at -2 hp? That's not very fair to the player, considering that the 10 point gap below 0 is small enough as it is.

In movies and such, there are times when you can't just go help out your fallen friends, because a greater issue needs resolving first (usually killing someone, could be disarming a bomb, etc.), why can't DnD be like this? I'm not sure about your players specificly, but I tend to play characters who would simply say "He'll make it, and if not, oh well." and then just keep fighting until the battle was over. A "cold hearted" Neutral Good player might keep attacking the evil in front of him to assure that it dies before going back to pick up his friends.
Stormthrone
03-29-06, 05:10 AM Yeah, but they see most of my rolls - it's a thing we started with after having a dice-cheater in the group. Almost all rolls are open, so he can see that the DM doesn't cheat.

Altough, I don't think it's cheating to roll and use a different result as a DM, if it helps the action of the game... but that's a different topic alltogether.
Fenris78
03-29-06, 05:16 AM Sounds pretty good - and can work both ways; a guy taken down to -9 could end up with 10 rounds before he croaks.

You could also give someone a free action, DC15, 20 or 25 (I don't really know what would be most appropriate) heal check to make a visual assessment to give him an idea of how long the player has left: e.g. "his breathing is getting ragged, you think he's got a round or two left tops".

Good plan.
Stormthrone
03-29-06, 05:21 AM You could also give someone a free action, DC15, 20 or 25 (I don't really know what would be most appropriate) heal check to make a visual assessment to give him an idea of how long the player has left: e.g. "his breathing is getting ragged, you think he's got a round or two left tops".
Actually, that is a splendid idea, that I'm going to add in my very next session! Being a medic in real life, I know it's doable - looking at a wounded person to see if he's going to croak or not, I mean...
Fenris78
03-29-06, 05:22 AM In movies and such, there are times when you can't just go help out your fallen friends, because a greater issue needs resolving first (usually killing someone, could be disarming a bomb, etc.), why can't DnD be like this? I'm not sure about your players specificly, but I tend to play characters who would simply say "He'll make it, and if not, oh well." and then just keep fighting until the battle was over. A "cold hearted" Neutral Good player might keep attacking the evil in front of him to assure that it dies before going back to pick up his friends.

Let me guess, you never, ever play a cleric (or if so, a self-buffing, non-healing smite-cleric) :rolleyes:

Well, I would be ****** if my party didn't try and save me. It obviously depends on the situation - in a tough fight it's all hands to the decks. However, if I coughed out my last breath while you went off frag-hunting (to coin an FPS phrase) a handful of Orcs then I wouldn't be amused!
Stormthrone
03-29-06, 05:26 AM In movies and such, there are times when you can't just go help out your fallen friends, because a greater issue needs resolving first
And this is where I add the "bonus-rounds", so the player wont die while the others does the Good Deed. Of course, this doesn't mean it's giving them a lot of time finishing what they're doing...

You also said: What if he is at -2 hp, and I roll a 1? Yeah, what if? That's the thing about randomness... What if he's on -9 hp and I roll a 10? ;)
Lokathor
03-29-06, 05:27 AM Let me guess, you never, ever play a cleric (or if so, a self-buffing, non-healing smite-cleric)

Actually, in my 6 years of DnD playing, I've been in a group with one NPC cleric, two druids (one in a differnet group and one solo), and never besides that have I had a character who knew how to cast healing spells in the party.

You also said: What if he is at -2 hp, and I roll a 1? Yeah, what if? That's the thing about randomness... What if he's on -9 hp and I roll a 10?

In this specific case not so much, but generally any factor that contributes to randomness works against the PCs.
Fenris78
03-29-06, 05:32 AM Actually, in my 6 years of DnD playing, I've been in a group with one NPC cleric, two druids (one in a differnet group and one solo), and never besides that have I had a character who knew how to cast healing spells in the party.

Sorry - I was little bit flamey. Still, I think I hit the nail on the head. Honestly, next time you get the chance to create a character, give it a whirl. I think clerics are hugely under-rated, and your team-mates will love it when you start keeping them on their feet, especially when they've not had it before. When you combine that with stacking up buffs for your party, it starts making a real difference.
Lokathor
03-29-06, 05:42 AM http://www.sylnae.net/3eprofiler/view.php?id=15570 , the game starts thursday. A mix of smite and kill with party sustaining. Many are the tales of the power of Cle20, so I'll have to see for myself. (after this, bard and then paladin are on my "to do" list).

Yeah, I've never seen the need for a healer because of it, and laugh a bit when people worry so much. You get about as strong a fear of death and sense of danger as you do in a low-magic game, but you still get to use magic items! (The best of both worlds, I think). Just be ready to run when you need and never take on tasks that require you complete them with haste. Don't "save the kingdom by tomorrow or we all die", just go "stop the hobgoblins from attacking caravans" instead.

As to Stormthrone's topic: This isn't quite covered in your idea, but have you considered, to use a 2E phrase, extending death's door? With -10 a hard limit, the Solars and Pit Fiends of the world bleed to death just as quickly as Bob the Com1. Doesn't quite make sense to me. Death at -(10+ConScore) or some value that scales with level (perhaps 10+1/2 level?) would help make things a little more "realistic" like you want.
Fenris78
03-29-06, 05:56 AM http://www.sylnae.net/3eprofiler/view.php?id=15570 , the game starts thursday. A mix of smite and kill with party sustaining. Many are the tales of the power of Cle20, so I'll have to see for myself. (after this, bard and then paladin are on my "to do" list).

Bah - can't see that at work, but good luck and hope you enjoy it :) If you do get up to high level then Persistent Divine Power (10th level adjusted without abusing the Divine Metamagic feat) will make you a fighter that just happens to have an absolute shed load of holy fury :)

And I'm drifting vastly off-topic so I'll STFU now.
Stormthrone
03-29-06, 08:50 AM As to Stormthrone's topic: This isn't quite covered in your idea, but have you considered, to use a 2E phrase, extending death's door? With -10 a hard limit, the Solars and Pit Fiends of the world bleed to death just as quickly as Bob the Com1. Doesn't quite make sense to me. Death at -(10+ConScore) or some value that scales with level (perhaps 10+1/2 level?) would help make things a little more "realistic" like you want.
Yeah, we used to play 2nd Edition all those years back, but the trouble is - if you add the con-score/con-bonus or half the level, or some other set number, the players still know how many rounds are left till the PC dies. That's what I don't want them to know, because it's metagaming.

Let me try to make an example from real life. As a paramedic, I arrive at the scene of an accident. I see two people lying there, bleeding, unconcious, and I know that judging from the color on their skin, the amount of blood around them and a few other factors like experience, I've got the time to text my wife about what I'd like for dinner... No? No, I don't think so... The first thing I do is checking if I can rescue them.

Another example, a bit more far fletched, but still: Me and some friends, all of us having done kickboxing for the last 10-15 years, end up in a fist-fight over some stupidity one saturday night. One of my friends gets stabbed trought the torso, and I glance over - seeing that the knife is in a location where it (probably) didn't hit anything vital, I continue hitting whoever is close... No? Nah... I would've ended the fight then and there - gone for the KO - and hurried over to my mate to check if he'd live. (Hey, I managed to create a cenario where I couldn't jump right in... check the above posts.)

For me, as a real life person, it is impossible to know just when another human being will bleed to death, and that's what I'd like to add to the game! I'm not saying: "The rules don't work, use mine!!" I'm saying that I didn't find them good enough, what with my players metagaming and all that, so I made up some house rules that I think work very well. (Improved now, thanks to Fenris.)

And, just to add this - my players - they love it! ;)
Epicweaver
03-29-06, 09:30 AM And this is where I add the "bonus-rounds", so the player wont die while the others does the Good Deed. Of course, this doesn't mean it's giving them a lot of time finishing what they're doing...

Adding "bonus-rounds" for a particular scene seems a bit arbitrary to me.
Dragon Snack
03-29-06, 09:32 AM My main D&D group does much the same thing, only we take it one step further.

The DM keeps track of their HPs and tells them how they feel. We have 8 "ranges", from full health to knocked out. Not only do the players not know where they are when they are under 0 HPs, they don't know how much damage the bad guy is doing with each hit. Even if they can guess how much damage they are taking, they don't know where in the range they are.

I've DMed and played under this rule. As a DM, it's not that much more work (we do a spreadsheet up and you just write down how much damage they take) and it lets you be more descriptive of the damage they are taking. As a player it adds a level of suspense (especially when you go under 0 HPs).
Stormthrone
03-29-06, 09:53 AM Adding "bonus-rounds" for a particular scene seems a bit arbitrary to me.
Well, it was an example...
VrecknidjX
03-29-06, 10:21 AM I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of a character, rather than the shoes of a player.

There I am on the battlefield, and comrades have gone down. I've seen this before--sometimes they live, sometimes they die. I've noted that if someone can get to them early and apply some healing (six second's worth--my eyes are rolling), then they might be okay.

What do I do?

First, I consider the battlefield. Will our side lose if I drop back to heal the fallen? If the mission is more important than the man, I complete the mission.

Second, I consider the fallen. I've noticed that even the praticularly robust will sometimes bleed out (i.e. Fort saves don't help in D&D).

Third, I consider the value of the comrade, is he a close friend?

Fourth, I consider the cost (and possibility) of resurrection. If this is fairly common in the world I live in, I don't have to worry so much about battlefield healing.

But, what I cannot do, is size up, at a glance, how "close to -10" someone is.

So, as the DM now, stepping back into my own shoes, I'd maybe require a player to make a skill check. Perhaps Heal (but, I'd be happy to apply the Int modifier instead of the Wis modifier if the Int modifier is higher--after all, the character is figuring something out, that takes Intelligence).

Maybe I'd do this. If you make a DC 20 check, you know roughly how wounded the character is (i.e. you are right to within a point, if the character is at -5, you'd guess -4, -5, or -6, the DM rolls randomly to see which of these three you guess). If you make a DC 25 check, you're right on. If you make a DC 15, you're right within 2 (i.e. at -5, you'll guess somewhere between -3 and -7). If you make a DC 10, you're right within 3 (i.e. at -5, you guess between -2 and -8). If you make a DC 5, you're right within 4.

I'd probably say that for every 5' that you're away from the target, the DC increases by 1.

If the player plays the character outside of what's normal for what he believe, penalize him. In other words, a paladin has a mission, but the mission in this case requires the cleric to be at the end and the cleric has fallen. The paladin's player rolls and beats a DC 15. But, another character rolls better and so the paladin's player acts on the other character's knowledge (without the two characters conferring, in game). The paladin isn't acting on his own knowledge--he thinks the cleric is in real trouble and so he needs to withdraw from combat and Lay on Hands, he does not think that everything's okay for a few more rounds. If the paladin ignores the cleric now, he's violating his code and should be punished.

Dave
Stormthrone
03-29-06, 01:28 PM The paladin isn't acting on his own knowledge--he thinks the cleric is in real trouble and so he needs to withdraw from combat and Lay on Hands, he does not think that everything's okay for a few more rounds. If the paladin ignores the cleric now, he's violating his code and should be punished.

I didn't quote the whole post, but you do make a valid point or two. What I did quote is the essence of why I made this rule in the first place... If he doesn't do what is in his character because the player knows different, it's metagaming - and metagaming like this is, imho, a sin when you roleplay.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Stormthrone 03-29-06, 04:45 AM	Well, I just thought I'd share a little house-rule I've got, you know - in case more DMs have my kind of players... (they are really well behaved, but sometimes they get stuck in the rules...) When a character go below 0 hp, he's bleeding. There is a chance he'll stabilize on his own, but it's better to get help from someone with the Heal skill, because, as we all know - if the character drops below -10 - he's dead! Now, to the issue of meta-gaming. Let's say PC1 goes down, his hp at -2. Do your players, as mine did, say things like: "He's got at least 7 rounds before he's dead, I whack the monster again!" or something? Mine did, and it drove me mad! Thus I added a house-rule: When the character hit negative hp I roll a (hidden) d10. The number I get is the number of rounds before the character dies. (If the fight is hard, or if there is only one with heal, I might add a few rounds as a bonus.) This makes the other players almost jump on top of the fallen comrade in order to stabilize him, much as in real life. A nifty rule? Or just plain stupidity from my part?
Twinnings 03-29-06, 05:05 AM	just tell them there on negatives when they drop below zero dont tell them how much damage they take. That way there comrades have to make an educated guesse on how long thereve got and it might make a simmilar reaction.
Lokathor 03-29-06, 05:09 AM	What if you roll that the player has 1 round left to live but they were only at -2 hp? That's not very fair to the player, considering that the 10 point gap below 0 is small enough as it is. In movies and such, there are times when you can't just go help out your fallen friends, because a greater issue needs resolving first (usually killing someone, could be disarming a bomb, etc.), why can't DnD be like this? I'm not sure about your players specificly, but I tend to play characters who would simply say "He'll make it, and if not, oh well." and then just keep fighting until the battle was over. A "cold hearted" Neutral Good player might keep attacking the evil in front of him to assure that it dies before going back to pick up his friends.
Stormthrone 03-29-06, 05:10 AM	Yeah, but they see most of my rolls - it's a thing we started with after having a dice-cheater in the group. Almost all rolls are open, so he can see that the DM doesn't cheat. Altough, I don't think it's cheating to roll and use a different result as a DM, if it helps the action of the game... but that's a different topic alltogether.
Fenris78 03-29-06, 05:16 AM	Sounds pretty good - and can work both ways; a guy taken down to -9 could end up with 10 rounds before he croaks. You could also give someone a free action, DC15, 20 or 25 (I don't really know what would be most appropriate) heal check to make a visual assessment to give him an idea of how long the player has left: e.g. "his breathing is getting ragged, you think he's got a round or two left tops". Good plan.
Stormthrone 03-29-06, 05:21 AM	You could also give someone a free action, DC15, 20 or 25 (I don't really know what would be most appropriate) heal check to make a visual assessment to give him an idea of how long the player has left: e.g. "his breathing is getting ragged, you think he's got a round or two left tops". Actually, that is a splendid idea, that I'm going to add in my very next session! Being a medic in real life, I know it's doable - looking at a wounded person to see if he's going to croak or not, I mean...
Fenris78 03-29-06, 05:22 AM	In movies and such, there are times when you can't just go help out your fallen friends, because a greater issue needs resolving first (usually killing someone, could be disarming a bomb, etc.), why can't DnD be like this? I'm not sure about your players specificly, but I tend to play characters who would simply say "He'll make it, and if not, oh well." and then just keep fighting until the battle was over. A "cold hearted" Neutral Good player might keep attacking the evil in front of him to assure that it dies before going back to pick up his friends. Let me guess, you never, ever play a cleric (or if so, a self-buffing, non-healing smite-cleric) :rolleyes: Well, I would be ****** if my party didn't try and save me. It obviously depends on the situation - in a tough fight it's all hands to the decks. However, if I coughed out my last breath while you went off frag-hunting (to coin an FPS phrase) a handful of Orcs then I wouldn't be amused!
Stormthrone 03-29-06, 05:26 AM	In movies and such, there are times when you can't just go help out your fallen friends, because a greater issue needs resolving first And this is where I add the "bonus-rounds", so the player wont die while the others does the Good Deed. Of course, this doesn't mean it's giving them a lot of time finishing what they're doing... You also said: What if he is at -2 hp, and I roll a 1? Yeah, what if? That's the thing about randomness... What if he's on -9 hp and I roll a 10? ;)
Lokathor 03-29-06, 05:27 AM	Let me guess, you never, ever play a cleric (or if so, a self-buffing, non-healing smite-cleric) Actually, in my 6 years of DnD playing, I've been in a group with one NPC cleric, two druids (one in a differnet group and one solo), and never besides that have I had a character who knew how to cast healing spells in the party. You also said: What if he is at -2 hp, and I roll a 1? Yeah, what if? That's the thing about randomness... What if he's on -9 hp and I roll a 10? In this specific case not so much, but generally any factor that contributes to randomness works against the PCs.
Fenris78 03-29-06, 05:32 AM	Actually, in my 6 years of DnD playing, I've been in a group with one NPC cleric, two druids (one in a differnet group and one solo), and never besides that have I had a character who knew how to cast healing spells in the party. Sorry - I was little bit flamey. Still, I think I hit the nail on the head. Honestly, next time you get the chance to create a character, give it a whirl. I think clerics are hugely under-rated, and your team-mates will love it when you start keeping them on their feet, especially when they've not had it before. When you combine that with stacking up buffs for your party, it starts making a real difference.
Lokathor 03-29-06, 05:42 AM	http://www.sylnae.net/3eprofiler/view.php?id=15570 , the game starts thursday. A mix of smite and kill with party sustaining. Many are the tales of the power of Cle20, so I'll have to see for myself. (after this, bard and then paladin are on my "to do" list). Yeah, I've never seen the need for a healer because of it, and laugh a bit when people worry so much. You get about as strong a fear of death and sense of danger as you do in a low-magic game, but you still get to use magic items! (The best of both worlds, I think). Just be ready to run when you need and never take on tasks that require you complete them with haste. Don't "save the kingdom by tomorrow or we all die", just go "stop the hobgoblins from attacking caravans" instead. As to Stormthrone's topic: This isn't quite covered in your idea, but have you considered, to use a 2E phrase, extending death's door? With -10 a hard limit, the Solars and Pit Fiends of the world bleed to death just as quickly as Bob the Com1. Doesn't quite make sense to me. Death at -(10+ConScore) or some value that scales with level (perhaps 10+1/2 level?) would help make things a little more "realistic" like you want.
Fenris78 03-29-06, 05:56 AM	http://www.sylnae.net/3eprofiler/view.php?id=15570 , the game starts thursday. A mix of smite and kill with party sustaining. Many are the tales of the power of Cle20, so I'll have to see for myself. (after this, bard and then paladin are on my "to do" list). Bah - can't see that at work, but good luck and hope you enjoy it :) If you do get up to high level then Persistent Divine Power (10th level adjusted without abusing the Divine Metamagic feat) will make you a fighter that just happens to have an absolute shed load of holy fury :) And I'm drifting vastly off-topic so I'll STFU now.
Stormthrone 03-29-06, 08:50 AM	As to Stormthrone's topic: This isn't quite covered in your idea, but have you considered, to use a 2E phrase, extending death's door? With -10 a hard limit, the Solars and Pit Fiends of the world bleed to death just as quickly as Bob the Com1. Doesn't quite make sense to me. Death at -(10+ConScore) or some value that scales with level (perhaps 10+1/2 level?) would help make things a little more "realistic" like you want. Yeah, we used to play 2nd Edition all those years back, but the trouble is - if you add the con-score/con-bonus or half the level, or some other set number, the players still know how many rounds are left till the PC dies. That's what I don't want them to know, because it's metagaming. Let me try to make an example from real life. As a paramedic, I arrive at the scene of an accident. I see two people lying there, bleeding, unconcious, and I know that judging from the color on their skin, the amount of blood around them and a few other factors like experience, I've got the time to text my wife about what I'd like for dinner... No? No, I don't think so... The first thing I do is checking if I can rescue them. Another example, a bit more far fletched, but still: Me and some friends, all of us having done kickboxing for the last 10-15 years, end up in a fist-fight over some stupidity one saturday night. One of my friends gets stabbed trought the torso, and I glance over - seeing that the knife is in a location where it (probably) didn't hit anything vital, I continue hitting whoever is close... No? Nah... I would've ended the fight then and there - gone for the KO - and hurried over to my mate to check if he'd live. (Hey, I managed to create a cenario where I couldn't jump right in... check the above posts.) For me, as a real life person, it is impossible to know just when another human being will bleed to death, and that's what I'd like to add to the game! I'm not saying: "The rules don't work, use mine!!" I'm saying that I didn't find them good enough, what with my players metagaming and all that, so I made up some house rules that I think work very well. (Improved now, thanks to Fenris.) And, just to add this - my players - they love it! ;)
Epicweaver 03-29-06, 09:30 AM	And this is where I add the "bonus-rounds", so the player wont die while the others does the Good Deed. Of course, this doesn't mean it's giving them a lot of time finishing what they're doing... Adding "bonus-rounds" for a particular scene seems a bit arbitrary to me.
Dragon Snack 03-29-06, 09:32 AM	My main D&D group does much the same thing, only we take it one step further. The DM keeps track of their HPs and tells them how they feel. We have 8 "ranges", from full health to knocked out. Not only do the players not know where they are when they are under 0 HPs, they don't know how much damage the bad guy is doing with each hit. Even if they can guess how much damage they are taking, they don't know where in the range they are. I've DMed and played under this rule. As a DM, it's not that much more work (we do a spreadsheet up and you just write down how much damage they take) and it lets you be more descriptive of the damage they are taking. As a player it adds a level of suspense (especially when you go under 0 HPs).
Stormthrone 03-29-06, 09:53 AM	Adding "bonus-rounds" for a particular scene seems a bit arbitrary to me. Well, it was an example...
VrecknidjX 03-29-06, 10:21 AM	I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of a character, rather than the shoes of a player. There I am on the battlefield, and comrades have gone down. I've seen this before--sometimes they live, sometimes they die. I've noted that if someone can get to them early and apply some healing (six second's worth--my eyes are rolling), then they might be okay. What do I do? First, I consider the battlefield. Will our side lose if I drop back to heal the fallen? If the mission is more important than the man, I complete the mission. Second, I consider the fallen. I've noticed that even the praticularly robust will sometimes bleed out (i.e. Fort saves don't help in D&D). Third, I consider the value of the comrade, is he a close friend? Fourth, I consider the cost (and possibility) of resurrection. If this is fairly common in the world I live in, I don't have to worry so much about battlefield healing. But, what I cannot do, is size up, at a glance, how "close to -10" someone is. So, as the DM now, stepping back into my own shoes, I'd maybe require a player to make a skill check. Perhaps Heal (but, I'd be happy to apply the Int modifier instead of the Wis modifier if the Int modifier is higher--after all, the character is figuring something out, that takes Intelligence). Maybe I'd do this. If you make a DC 20 check, you know roughly how wounded the character is (i.e. you are right to within a point, if the character is at -5, you'd guess -4, -5, or -6, the DM rolls randomly to see which of these three you guess). If you make a DC 25 check, you're right on. If you make a DC 15, you're right within 2 (i.e. at -5, you'll guess somewhere between -3 and -7). If you make a DC 10, you're right within 3 (i.e. at -5, you guess between -2 and -8). If you make a DC 5, you're right within 4. I'd probably say that for every 5' that you're away from the target, the DC increases by 1. If the player plays the character outside of what's normal for what he believe, penalize him. In other words, a paladin has a mission, but the mission in this case requires the cleric to be at the end and the cleric has fallen. The paladin's player rolls and beats a DC 15. But, another character rolls better and so the paladin's player acts on the other character's knowledge (without the two characters conferring, in game). The paladin isn't acting on his own knowledge--he thinks the cleric is in real trouble and so he needs to withdraw from combat and Lay on Hands, he does not think that everything's okay for a few more rounds. If the paladin ignores the cleric now, he's violating his code and should be punished. Dave
Stormthrone 03-29-06, 01:28 PM	The paladin isn't acting on his own knowledge--he thinks the cleric is in real trouble and so he needs to withdraw from combat and Lay on Hands, he does not think that everything's okay for a few more rounds. If the paladin ignores the cleric now, he's violating his code and should be punished. I didn't quote the whole post, but you do make a valid point or two. What I did quote is the essence of why I made this rule in the first place... If he doesn't do what is in his character because the player knows different, it's metagaming - and metagaming like this is, imho, a sin when you roleplay.