Blind Archers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blind Archers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jakonen
02-14-08, 12:34 AM I'm new to the forums so i apologize if this is in the wrong place.
I want to make an artifact sword protected by blind but very powerful archers.
there are at least two of them and i kinda they would be fighters with a lot of ranged feats. the thing is i cant figure out is how they would "see".
i know they have exceptional hearing and they can hear far distances. at least 200 feet. i don't know whether to use blind-sight or blind-sense. Encounter level 16
any help is much appreciated.

P.S.
this movie should explain a little more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETniXPrhwMc
Aryxbez
02-14-08, 12:42 AM I figured as much, Samurai Jack, that is one good show I'll tell you what.

I would say Zen Archery Feat complements the idea of Blind archers, It substitutes Wis for Dex with range attacks.

Otherwise I would suggest Blindsight if they use their ears and the feeling of vibrations. Otherwise Blindsense works if they have a particular area of which things are visible to them, although in samurai jack, sounds to me they worked via Blindsight, superbly good hearing, the sounds of the archer enemies footsteps.

EDIT: Now that I watched it again, it was definitely hearing is what they used to see their foes presence. So Blindsight is a definite yes.

Also, how will this encounter be a EL 16 anyway? Whats the party? I'm merely curious, oh and welcome to the boards, I ponder your thoughts on 4th edition.
Magrus
02-14-08, 02:36 PM This may help you out a bit:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/synesthete.htm

Have your archers be Psychic Warriors. They'll still be blind, but with this power, they'll see with their ears. Hence, their listen checks would provide results as spot checks. You could even just pull off 2 levels in the class, get 2 feats, 2 powers known, and take Zen archery for making use of the Wisdom score that gains you PP. Then delve into Fighter levels and some PrC class. You'll lose a few HP and 1 BAB, but it would fit your flavor really well and you won't have to take an odd race to gain Blindsense.

Then again, maybe digging through the MM books and finding a race with blindsense would work for you. Hell, at ECL 16, you could have wyrmling dragons with enough levels in Wizard or Sorcerer to get Polymorph being the archers. That wouldn't be as effective as level 16 human or elf Psy_Warriors though.
Sinis
02-14-08, 02:45 PM Pretend they have blindsight. Problem solved.

Don't get caught up in the mechanical possibility/impossibility. Sometimes, the rules don't reasonably allow you to do the things you want to. In those times, you fudge them.
High Octane
02-14-08, 03:26 PM You know, I clicked that link and expected exactly what I saw. Blindsight works perfectly.
Jakonen
02-14-08, 05:08 PM Well we have a set up where we have 4 characters adventure at once but we have 8 characters my players can control. so the party can some variety.
it would either be a:
Human fighter/Psychic warrior 10/5
Human druid 16
Half elf monk 15
human Rouge 15
or
Half Orc barbarian 17
half elf barbarian/cleric 2/14
tiefling sorcerer 16
Warforged soul knife 15

if you need to know any thing else tell me
Aryxbez
02-14-08, 07:02 PM Well I was just asking for that out of curiosity, good to see a more warrior oriented group.

Otherwise I ponder this encounter, and thats about it, Such as how they are even going to be worth the EL, how arrows are going to challenge a group of PC's. I'm sure it's an interesting Encounter with more to it than I'm thinking at the moment.

Oh and you should let the Fig/Psy warrior to get/buy a Divine power wand, so the rogue then uses it and the fighter then has Full-bab!

Also the Falling Star style (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=771597&highlight=Falling+Star) sounds good for archery, assuming you like ToB (Tome of Battle).
Edymnion
02-14-08, 09:02 PM Are you going to let the PCs become blind archers?
If not, don't worry about it. Just stat them up normally, like everybody else, and just say that they're blind. If the players ask how they can hit so well, say "they just do".

The mechanics are there for when the player wants to do something, you as the DM do not have to confine yourselves to them when making an opponent.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jakonen 02-14-08, 12:34 AM	I'm new to the forums so i apologize if this is in the wrong place. I want to make an artifact sword protected by blind but very powerful archers. there are at least two of them and i kinda they would be fighters with a lot of ranged feats. the thing is i cant figure out is how they would "see". i know they have exceptional hearing and they can hear far distances. at least 200 feet. i don't know whether to use blind-sight or blind-sense. Encounter level 16 any help is much appreciated. P.S. this movie should explain a little more. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETniXPrhwMc
Aryxbez 02-14-08, 12:42 AM	I figured as much, Samurai Jack, that is one good show I'll tell you what. I would say Zen Archery Feat complements the idea of Blind archers, It substitutes Wis for Dex with range attacks. Otherwise I would suggest Blindsight if they use their ears and the feeling of vibrations. Otherwise Blindsense works if they have a particular area of which things are visible to them, although in samurai jack, sounds to me they worked via Blindsight, superbly good hearing, the sounds of the archer enemies footsteps. EDIT: Now that I watched it again, it was definitely hearing is what they used to see their foes presence. So Blindsight is a definite yes. Also, how will this encounter be a EL 16 anyway? Whats the party? I'm merely curious, oh and welcome to the boards, I ponder your thoughts on 4th edition.
Magrus 02-14-08, 02:36 PM	This may help you out a bit: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/synesthete.htm Have your archers be Psychic Warriors. They'll still be blind, but with this power, they'll see with their ears. Hence, their listen checks would provide results as spot checks. You could even just pull off 2 levels in the class, get 2 feats, 2 powers known, and take Zen archery for making use of the Wisdom score that gains you PP. Then delve into Fighter levels and some PrC class. You'll lose a few HP and 1 BAB, but it would fit your flavor really well and you won't have to take an odd race to gain Blindsense. Then again, maybe digging through the MM books and finding a race with blindsense would work for you. Hell, at ECL 16, you could have wyrmling dragons with enough levels in Wizard or Sorcerer to get Polymorph being the archers. That wouldn't be as effective as level 16 human or elf Psy_Warriors though.
Sinis 02-14-08, 02:45 PM	Pretend they have blindsight. Problem solved. Don't get caught up in the mechanical possibility/impossibility. Sometimes, the rules don't reasonably allow you to do the things you want to. In those times, you fudge them.
High Octane 02-14-08, 03:26 PM	You know, I clicked that link and expected exactly what I saw. Blindsight works perfectly.
Jakonen 02-14-08, 05:08 PM	Well we have a set up where we have 4 characters adventure at once but we have 8 characters my players can control. so the party can some variety. it would either be a: Human fighter/Psychic warrior 10/5 Human druid 16 Half elf monk 15 human Rouge 15 or Half Orc barbarian 17 half elf barbarian/cleric 2/14 tiefling sorcerer 16 Warforged soul knife 15 if you need to know any thing else tell me
Aryxbez 02-14-08, 07:02 PM	Well I was just asking for that out of curiosity, good to see a more warrior oriented group. Otherwise I ponder this encounter, and thats about it, Such as how they are even going to be worth the EL, how arrows are going to challenge a group of PC's. I'm sure it's an interesting Encounter with more to it than I'm thinking at the moment. Oh and you should let the Fig/Psy warrior to get/buy a Divine power wand, so the rogue then uses it and the fighter then has Full-bab! Also the Falling Star style (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=771597&highlight=Falling+Star) sounds good for archery, assuming you like ToB (Tome of Battle).
Edymnion 02-14-08, 09:02 PM	Are you going to let the PCs become blind archers? If not, don't worry about it. Just stat them up normally, like everybody else, and just say that they're blind. If the players ask how they can hit so well, say "they just do". The mechanics are there for when the player wants to do something, you as the DM do not have to confine yourselves to them when making an opponent.