Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kinjojones 06-16-06, 08:12 PM	We started the party out at level 4 and one of my players decided to buy a Trained Blink Dog as part of his starting equipment. I perhaps should have said something before we even started playing but I let it slide. Now he's treating it as just an extension of his character's will. I want to rein in the Blink Dog as it really should be a NPC under my control in the first place. I don't want to totally nerf his purchase but I also don't want it to be an extra set of eyes and ears that can teleport hundreds of feet without error fearlessly wherever his master bids and instantly knowing in the heat of battle the exact tactics his master wants him to carry out. Next session I'll probaly tell him that the Blink Dog is really an NPC under my control. But how should I handle controlling the blink dog so it acts realistically as well as being a useful companion to the party?
henebry 06-17-06, 08:16 AM	Next session I'll probaly tell him that the Blink Dog is really an NPC under my control. But how should I handle controlling the blink dog so it acts realistically as well as being a useful companion to the party? Decide yourself which creature/opponent the blink dog will attack before the encounter begins. Once in a while have it bite (or at least act aggressively) toward a creature/opponent that radiates evil but from whom the party needs something.
utilitarian 06-17-06, 12:43 PM	A blink dog is an intillegent animal with its own language, however that language is a series of barks and yips. Unless the character speaks Blink Dog, which I doubt he does, you could have him roll Handle Animal in order to properly "command" his Blink Dog to do something specific, otherwise it acts according to it's natural tendancies and instincts. As an example: There are two enemies attacking the PC, an archer and a solider. The archer has yet to attack the PC but the solider is in close combat with him. Naturally the Blink Dog is attacking the soldier who is currently attacking it's "Pack-mate" (the pc). The PC decides he has the solider well in hand but is worried about the archer who is about to open fire on the party wizard. The PC rolls Handle Animal vs a DC of (whatever). If he succedes, the Blink Dog recognizes that he wants it to go after the archer, it Dimension Doors over and totally bites the archer in the nuts. If the PC fails, th Blink Dog doesn't understand his intentions and continues to defend its packmate.
Lord Ian Stark 06-17-06, 01:50 PM	Utilitarian has right. Handle Animal (Cha; Trained Only) Check The DC depends on what you are trying to do. Handle an Animal This task involves commanding an animal to perform a task or trick that it knows. If the animal is wounded or has taken any nonlethal damage or ability score damage, the DC increases by 2. If your check succeeds, the animal performs the task or trick on its next action. “Push” an Animal To push an animal means to get it to perform a task or trick that it doesn’t know but is physically capable of performing. This category also covers making an animal perform a forced march or forcing it to hustle for more than 1 hour between sleep cycles. If the animal is wounded or has taken any nonlethal damage or ability score damage, the DC increases by 2. If your check succeeds, the animal performs the task or trick on its next action. Teach an Animal a Trick You can teach an animal a specific trick with one week of work and a successful Handle Animal check against the indicated DC. An animal with an Intelligence score of 1 can learn a maximum of three tricks, while an animal with an Intelligence score of 2 can learn a maximum of six tricks. Possible tricks (and their associated DCs) include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following. Attack (DC 20): The animal attacks apparent enemies. You may point to a particular creature that you wish the animal to attack, and it will comply if able. Normally, an animal will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals. Teaching an animal to attack all creatures (including such unnatural creatures as undead and aberrations) counts as two tricks. Come (DC 15): The animal comes to you, even if it normally would not do so. Defend (DC 20): The animal defends you (or is ready to defend you if no threat is present), even without any command being given. Alternatively, you can command the animal to defend a specific other character. Down (DC 15): The animal breaks off from combat or otherwise backs down. An animal that doesn’t know this trick continues to fight until it must flee (due to injury, a fear effect, or the like) or its opponent is defeated. Fetch (DC 15): The animal goes and gets something. If you do not point out a specific item, the animal fetches some random object. Guard (DC 20): The animal stays in place and prevents others from approaching. Heel (DC 15): The animal follows you closely, even to places where it normally wouldn’t go. Perform (DC 15): The animal performs a variety of simple tricks, such as sitting up, rolling over, roaring or barking, and so on. Seek (DC 15): The animal moves into an area and looks around for anything that is obviously alive or animate. Stay (DC 15): The animal stays in place, waiting for you to return. It does not challenge other creatures that come by, though it still defends itself if it needs to. Track (DC 20): The animal tracks the scent presented to it. (This requires the animal to have the scent ability) Work (DC 15): The animal pulls or pushes a medium or heavy load. Train an Animal for a Purpose Rather than teaching an animal individual tricks, you can simply train it for a general purpose. Essentially, an animal’s purpose represents a preselected set of known tricks that fit into a common scheme, such as guarding or heavy labor. The animal must meet all the normal prerequisites for all tricks included in the training package. If the package includes more than three tricks, the animal must have an Intelligence score of 2. An animal can be trained for only one general purpose, though if the creature is capable of learning additional tricks (above and beyond those included in its general purpose), it may do so. Training an animal for a purpose requires fewer checks than teaching individual tricks does, but no less time. Combat Riding (DC 20): An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel. Training an animal for combat riding takes six weeks. You may also “upgrade” an animal trained for riding to one trained for combat riding by spending three weeks and making a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check. The new general purpose and tricks completely replace the animal’s previous purpose and any tricks it once knew. Warhorses and riding dogs are already trained to bear riders into combat, and they don’t require any additional training for this purpose. Fighting (DC 20): An animal trained to engage in combat knows the tricks attack, down, and stay. Training an animal for fighting takes three weeks. Guarding (DC 20): An animal trained to guard knows the tricks attack, defend, down, and guard. Training an animal for guarding takes four weeks. Heavy Labor (DC 15): An animal trained for heavy labor knows the tricks come and work. Training an animal for heavy labor takes two weeks. Hunting (DC 20): An animal trained for hunting knows the tricks attack, down, fetch, heel, seek, and track. Training an animal for hunting takes six weeks. Performance (DC 15): An animal trained for performance knows the tricks come, fetch, heel, perform, and stay. Training an animal for performance takes five weeks. Riding (DC 15): An animal trained to bear a rider knows the tricks come, heel, and stay. Training an animal for riding takes three weeks. Rear a Wild Animal To rear an animal means to raise a wild creature from infancy so that it becomes domesticated. A handler can rear as many as three creatures of the same kind at once. A successfully domesticated animal can be taught tricks at the same time it’s being raised, or it can be taught as a domesticated animal later. See also: epic usages of Handle Animal. Action Varies. Handling an animal is a move action, while pushing an animal is a full-round action. (A druid or ranger can handle her animal companion as a free action or push it as a move action.) For tasks with specific time frames noted above, you must spend half this time (at the rate of 3 hours per day per animal being handled) working toward completion of the task before you attempt the Handle Animal check. If the check fails, your attempt to teach, rear, or train the animal fails and you need not complete the teaching, rearing, or training time. If the check succeeds, you must invest the remainder of the time to complete the teaching, rearing, or training. If the time is interrupted or the task is not followed through to completion, the attempt to teach, rear, or train the animal automatically fails. Try Again Yes, except for rearing an animal. Special You can use this skill on a creature with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2 that is not an animal, but the DC of any such check increases by 5. Such creatures have the same limit on tricks known as animals do. A druid or ranger gains a +4 circumstance bonus on Handle Animal checks involving her animal companion. In addition, a druid’s or ranger’s animal companion knows one or more bonus tricks, which don’t count against the normal limit on tricks known and don’t require any training time or Handle Animal checks to teach. If you have the Animal Affinity feat, you get a +2 bonus on Handle Animal checks. Synergy If you have 5 or more ranks in Handle Animal, you get a +2 bonus on Ride checks and wild empathy checks. Untrained If you have no ranks in Handle Animal, you can use a Charisma check to handle and push domestic animals, but you can’t teach, rear, or train animals. A druid or ranger with no ranks in Handle Animal can use a Charisma check to handle and push her animal companion, but she can’t teach, rear, or train other nondomestic animals. Everything that PC wants his blink dog to do will require a handle animal check. It would behoove the PC to bump up that skill. Look in the PH for the table of the DC's for his dog's actions.
kinjojones 06-17-06, 02:44 PM	The PC in question took Blink Dog as one of his languages and for some reason his blink dog can understand common which now that I think about it is a bit fishy. The Blink dog could only understand common if it had a high enough intelligence to have it as an extra language but if he took the Blink Dog straight from the monster manual like he said he did it would only have INT 10. I think I may have had a fast one pulled on me. Now I'm wary of of trying to revamp the whole blink dog thing because I've already let it slide for 2 sessions and this same PC has been complaining that I'm too strict about sticking to RAW and I don't want to open that whole can of worms again.
utilitarian 06-17-06, 02:52 PM	Well if the PC speaks Blink Dog (which would look and sound absolutely HILARIOUS coming from a human or similar person) then he need not use Handle Animal as he can just speak to it. "Rover! Bark bark, YIP! grrrr bark bark! yip grrr bark!" *edit* who the hell taught him the language of Blink Dogs? And secondly, how can he understand it considering it likely uses noises outside the normal humanoid hearing range o_O
Lord Ian Stark 06-17-06, 03:28 PM	kinjojones you dug yourself this hole my friend. By letting him learn a language that only a Blink Dog can speak you basically bypassed the handle animal skill as he can tell it what to do verbally. Why don't you know what stats his blink dog has?!? You say you're the DM but it doesn't sound like you are IMO. (Not trying to be mean here) You let him buy a "trained" Blink Dog and somehow allowed him to speak an animals language. Then when you try and say wait a minute, the player just whines about you being a rules jerk. Players will always whine the DM is being to hard if they can't get their way by trying to do something that isoverpowering or way against the rules. Like this. :)
kinjojones 06-17-06, 04:15 PM	How it happened was he was DM and then we all showed up to a session and he says "I don't want to be DM anymore, you do it." So he makes his character while I take 20 minutes to pull something out of where the sun does not shine and am too distracted to take a look at or veto anything on his character cause it's already 11 at night and we have to rap up by 130. So indeed I am in a deep hole but in my defence it was pre dug for me. Of course I guess it's my fault for accepting the DMship and effectively willingly allowing myself to be buried.
kinjojones 06-17-06, 04:22 PM	Of course now that I take a look at the Blink Dog entry I suppose I could maybe set up an encounter with a pack of Displacer Beasts and make sure that Ol' Blinky doesn't survive as only the DM can. But would that be an Evil Indian Giver kind of DM thing to do or proper justice for a sneaky player trying to put one over on his DM?
aftercrescent 06-17-06, 04:42 PM	Not to sound too horrible, but you really have two options (IMO), both of which involve you putting your foot down: 1) Read his character sheet, CAREFULLY. Talk to him before the next game and correct everything wrong with him. Explain it to him and give him options so he can fix his character. Warn him not to whine, beforehand. If he whines and ignores your changes, just remember that when he says something you've changed, it won't work and make it so. 2) Use the displacer beasts and kill the blink dog. Be prepared to tell him straight up that the punishment for trying to pull one over on the DM is that the DM will fix the problem. But don't be a jerk about. Be firm. I like option one best, honestly. Good luck. :)
Lord Ian Stark 06-17-06, 04:56 PM	How it happened was he was DM and then we all showed up to a session and he says "I don't want to be DM anymore, you do it." this same PC has been complaining that I'm too strict about sticking to RAW and I don't want to open that whole can of worms again. So let me get this straight, this guy doesn't want to DM anymore so he makes a character and breaks the rules by not asking you if he can speak "Blink Dog" :rolleyes: and then sets his own price to buy a trained one and uses it in battle like it's another PC. Then when you confront him on it he whines... Dude, tell him if he doesn't like it he can DM or not play. Let him know when you're the DM you like to stick to the rules for simplicity and balance. That's it.
utilitarian 06-17-06, 04:57 PM	While explicitly killing off his Blink Dog might be difficult, having them encounter some displacer beasts (especially if it's appropreate to the adventure) would be a perfectly fair thing to do, and given that they are natural enemies with said blink dog they would, of course, go right for him.
revnk 06-18-06, 04:26 PM	Umm. Let me just say up front I'm not actually trying to flame anyone. But.... A blink dog is a sentient creature with a standard INT of 10. Like an average humanoid. What your character has isn't an animal companion for which Handle Animal is appropriate: what he has is, essentially, a slave. The Leadership feat, which the character doesn't even qualify for until 6th level, might salvage the situation. Or might not. Frankly, unless there's some reason the blink dog has been completely psychologically broken or has some reason to feel an obligation or loyalty to the PC, I'd have the dog perform the first duty of a POW, and escape. Sorry. He shouldn't have bought the slave in the first place unless he was prepared to use something like a Slave Ring from Book Of Vile Darkness to break it. Even if the blink dog is broken or psychologically programmed to accept its enslavement, it seems like the situation is crying out for a heroic abolitionist (perhaps a paladin, cleric, ranger or druid) to come in and liberate the prisoner. If you want to take a nicer tack about it, you could have the blink dog finish the adventure and say something like, "Well, now that I've finished my secret mission, I must return to the pack...." or "I liked playing with you, it was really fun, gotta get back to the wife and pups! <bamf!>" Not sure this was what you wanted to hear, but I gotta call 'em like I see 'em. Sorry.
Tomovasky 06-18-06, 04:47 PM	Here an Idea the blink dog is rely half celstrole. He has been sent to lead the party to doing the right thing ect. ect .ect… Witch now makes the Blink Dog and NPC you can use to move the story to how you want, also now he is smarter, So he can speak common but because of his heavily ties he can not directly interfere with how fate is to go… In other word he can give advice and some magic help yet no longer can fight
wrecan 06-18-06, 07:01 PM	I agree entirely with Revnk. You don't "train" a creature of avergae intellience. That's a slave. What infernal person did the PC buy this blink dog from? How much did he pay for his slave? What alignment is the PC that this arrangement is morally acceptable. If he can speak blink dog, why hasn't the blink dog asked for its freedom. Or, at least, of an equal share of the treasure, with which it shall buy its freedom from his master and then send the rest on Milk Bone dog treats and a nice fluffy pillow?
EldonG 06-18-06, 07:26 PM	Revnik has it right. He owns an intelligent...and *good aligned* being...so he's evil, right? Try having the local Paladin challenge him as a slave owner. If owning slaves is illegal, have him locked up by the local constables. Egads, so wrong, and on numerous levels. We had a party member that had a blink dog as a companion, for a while...note that I didn't say animal, even though it filled that role...it was being done by godly request...
The Colonel 06-18-06, 09:06 PM	This is surely, as people have pointed out, either a slave or a cohort ... and if a slave, very hard to stop from teleporting away.
utilitarian 06-18-06, 09:29 PM	Let's look at a statement "He owns a trained blink dog" now given that blink dogs are as smart as people (but not neccisarily smart as smart people) "he owns a trained person" yes people can be trained (As sick as it is) they are not of animal intellegence, and neither is the Blink Dog. So we can assume the Blink Dog has what is referred to as a "Slave Mentality". What this means is even though he has the capability to escape using his Dimension Door, he does not because in his mindset being a slave means not running away and he is a slave and can't do that. He's been "trained" not to run away. Here's a thought: Have him encounter... a pack of Blink Dogs! Think about it, the pack will see him keeping a slave, inquire about it, and since he even SPEAKS Blink Dog they can even berate him as a tyrant for owning a slave Blink Dog and demand he release it at once, and if not, attack!~ This idea is bubbling in my head now, can you imagine the scene?
Delfedd 06-18-06, 10:42 PM	Ok. Even better than the last poster. A pack of blink Dog paladins. Just imagine that. Of course, you'll have to be leading up to the idea by having his blink dog tell him that he wishes to leave his service. Of course, this player probably engaged in slave trade by buying an intelligent animal, so he could even have a group of normal paladins on his butt.
wrecan 06-19-06, 09:05 AM	blink dogs don't advance by character level. They can, however, be large-sized 12 HD blink dogs....
Millennium 06-19-06, 10:32 AM	To be honest, I find the idea of the blink dog learning to understand Common far more plausible than the PC learning to speak Blink Dog. The PC probably can't even hear half of the Blink Dog language; canines do a lot of their communicating with one another using sounds at frequencies that humans can't hear. Blink dogs can make very interesting DMPCs: they've got nifty abilities, they're smart enough to understand basic tactics, the roleplay is very atypical, and it's hard to hog the spotlight. If you think you're up to the challenge, you should strongly consider asking to take over the role from the player (possibly with a promise that you'll continue to have him run with the party).