Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord T Hawkeye 11-27-03, 11:52 PM	Best I asked for advice (and pray the player in question doesn't read this) I have a player in my campaign who's playing as a Rakshasa. For those of your not familiar with them, I shall explain. They eventually become immune to all but level 9 spells They have quite formidable DR (15/+3 at max level) They can cast sorceror spells They have all high mental stats are they're no slouches in the physical ones too. They can detect thoughts and assume any humanoid form at will Now, add a VERY high bluff bonus to this. Basically, he laughs at enemy spellcasters, he shrugs off your average fighter, and anything he can't beat, he tells some outrageous lie to which they never have much of a chance of seeing through and he makes a chump out of them. His bluff ability has basically become a free suggestion spell and nothing I do seems to work in foiling it. Tried high sense motive check creatures, he just downs a potion of glibness and that's over. (with the potion, we're talking a bluff bonus that would impress Olidamarra here!) Is there a limitation on bluff that I'm not aware of? (even with the penalties for big lies, he can usually pull it of without much trouble) Can you bluff someone you've decieved before and they know it? Can you bluff a hostile creature intent on killing you? Any advice?
NinjaHedge 11-28-03, 01:47 AM	at the level adjustment a creature like that has, the rest of your party should be near able to cast dominate person anyway, what's the problem? Yes, creatures with insane special abilities make for insane creature classes. You should see some of the things some of the fey can do in the hands of a player. Oh well, your other players should have similar strengths. That being said, there are plenty of creatures that would be immune to such things. It's hard to bluff a plant, or anything you cannot communicate with. As far as what to allow, I'm sure the PHB has a nice description, but pretty much anything, given the proper modifiers. There may be some limitations as to the agression of the opponent, but if it were me, I'd just assign another nasty penalty, and keep track of realistic time limitations. If someone is stabbing at him, most bluffs would take too long, but he could probably pull off, "Oh my god, Dragon!" enough to lose the guy a round, or at least get a penalty to init, loose dex, or something. edit: oh, and general disclamer on all such things, don't let the players roll unless you ask them to. Don't let the players pull "okay, now I'm making a bluff roll against him." "Oh really? Does your character have dice?" Let the game play out, and if you think a roll would be helpfull, use it, but especially with roleplaying stuff, it's not always neccisary.
guru7892 11-28-03, 02:05 AM	you cant bluff an idiot barbarian, heres a mock example pc:ha ive slew thousand of orcs and men in seconds brb:what slew mean? pc:confused: .... kill, defeat, die brb:me still dont get it pc: ok what happens when you hit a live thing with your full blade? brb: me no remember, let me see [pc doges blow] brb:what you do?!?!?! {flys into rage} me hits you now! [combat insues] after combat brb:what was me doing?
BenjCano 11-28-03, 02:12 AM	Dude, what's the problem? In 3.0, a single successful hit with a blessed crossbow bolt instantly slays a raksasha. No saving through, no nothing, thank you for playing, you can drop your character sheet in the trash over there.
Tranall 11-28-03, 02:35 AM	From what it sounds like... he's having problems with the Rakshasa bluffing and getting out of trouble with NPCs. Rakshasa player sounds like he knows what he's doing in taking that combo. Hmm... might want to look at how Detect Thoughts work. It can't work through some materials, like a 1 foot of stone or an inch of metal. While that might not work with keeping some thoughts away, you could conceivable have characters in the wings that he doesn't know about that could "hear" what's going on. Ugly thing is that the Rakshasa has that Detect Thoughts ability at will and on whenever they want. Either throw undead or constructs at him, or maybe creatures like Phase Spiders? I don't think creatures that can phase can be detected by Detect Thoughts... don't have my books handy to look it up either. How are his ranks in Sense Motive? Maybe find a way to bluff him if you can. Make it believable and stuff. And when he tries to use Detect Thoughts and it fails, he's going to have to try again and that's going to eat up time. Time that the NPC trying to bluff him might get the idea that the Rakshasa is trying to read his mind (if they know it's a Rakshasa) and then they can attack.
Lord T Hawkeye 11-28-03, 02:39 AM	Originally posted by BenjCano Dude, what's the problem? In 3.0, a single successful hit with a blessed crossbow bolt instantly slays a raksasha. No saving through, no nothing, thank you for playing, you can drop your character sheet in the trash over there. Tsk tsk tsk! Nothing crude like that. I have no intention of killing any of my players as I like them all very much. I just don't like feeling like he's calling all the shots here.
ManTimeForgot 11-28-03, 02:43 AM	As to the limitations on bluff I would suggest looking the epic level handbook for advice on how to handle ultra high level DCs and ridiculous situations. As to the interaction between bluff and a hostile person: If the person is so hostile that they would not listen to the raksasha, then they are considered fanatical (at least according to the epic level handbook's standards). A fanatical person requires like a DC 120 diplomacy roll to change the attitude of. I suspect bluff is likewise. If you allowed psionics into your game, psychic inquisitor feat takes care of bluffing. And a high level cleric with true seeing can do a number on your Raksasha no problem: righteous might, divine power, etc... I would pit the person up against a paladin (detect evil tends to take care of all the bluff situations). *paladin detects evil* *using item of true seeing to reveal the nature of raksasha* *paladin confronts raksasha* *raksasha tries to bluff his way out of this situation by telling all manner of lies (paladin's mother is dying, the church is on fire, he left the oven open...)* *paladin disbelieves everything the raksasha says out of hand because he knows the wilely raksasha is trying to trick him* *paladin casts bless weapon on his crossbow and shoots the raksasha dead* Thank You all and have a nice day. Signed, The Man Time Forgot
ante_up 11-28-03, 03:07 AM	Originally posted by Lord T Hawkeye Tsk tsk tsk! Nothing crude like that. I have no intention of killing any of my players as I like them all very much. I just don't like feeling like he's calling all the shots here. His enemies won't think that way. Rakasha's are powerful, but that weekness is certainly a balancing factor, and as such his enemies should exploit it as best they can. Also, remember an outrageous blufff grants the target a +20 bonus to sense motive. Additionally, just because he bluffs a foe into thinking he is a supreme being doesn't mean they will forever think that way. On the contrary, when the targes goes back to his normal buisness and thinks over the situation, he'll realize he's been had. Sooner or later, one of the people/creatures the rakasha detected will come back to reap vengance. Or perphaps one of the creatures he's wronged decides to hire an assassin. Say this assassin is a lowly doppelganger. The doppelganger could trail the Rakasha arround town, using Detect Thoughts on him (it is a Su, so his spell immunity doesn't apply) until he has a good idea who the Rakasha really is.
muckus 11-28-03, 03:53 AM	Well, as it was said earlier, he has to communicate with a target to bluff it. Say someone was bluffed outrageously and realizes it later (as you hinted has happened). That person now knows that this character can make the most brazen lies seem believable. So he doesn't listen next time. He puts wax in his ears, he says "nah nah I can't hear you", he casts zone of silence, whatever. And he spreads the word, so others in the area can have a heads up. Of course, the rakshasa can take other forms, so that would warrant True Seeing, or something of the like. Just look for a reason they might believe there's some sort of shape-shifter/illusionist/doppelganger running around posing as their sisters or barkeepers and telling lies. Basically, if they've been duped, and they have a decent idea of how, then they can be prepared next time, and they can spread the word.
Al2902 11-28-03, 06:16 AM	Well, personally, I toned down Potions of Glibness to +10 for precisely this reason... ...since it's evident that this will not work, the best bet is to simply deny him the opportunity to bluff. Attack with assassins at night, use creatures that are nonintelligent, deaf or don't speak the language (very old undead might not speak contemporary languages), create 'long range' encounters (such as archers with Far Shot 1000' away) who won't be able to hear him etc.
NeutralNeutral 11-28-03, 12:53 PM	Maybe the mind-reading can be turned against him? If his enemies know about his abilties, they can mis-inform their underlings, and thereby lead him into all sorts of trouble. You can detect whether someone is lying: but you can't detect whether its the real truth or not.
Lord T Hawkeye 11-28-03, 12:56 PM	Very good suggestions. Only problem with others coming back to reap vengeance is that he travels a lot so most people won't have much luck in finding him. Worst of all, many end up dead long before they can figure out they've been tricked. The other tough part is that the major villains are devils and blessed crossbow bolts are hard to come by for a fiend. ^^; (most of my other players are playing celestials)
Nuadha 11-28-03, 02:11 PM	1- Make potions of glibness extremely hard to find. Explain that one of the key ingredients has had a crop shortage or something. This way the character has to rely on his natural abilities. 2- Apply Sense motive modifiers heavily. 3- Make encounters where character has no chance to speak to the creatures. (Creatures attack from afar, have no hearing, undead, etc.) 4- If an NPC has been bluffed by character before, give him or her additional bonuses of +5 for each time previously fell for PC's bluff. 5- As PC, having problems bluffing someone, goes to drink potion have NPC slap bottle out of his hand. "What you drinking!?" ....or have drinking in front of another be a serious crime against the honor of a race or clan. 6- Have the character get a reputation as a con-man and swindler and have NPCs have been warned about listening to him. Make it so that they refuse to listen to his lies and give even more bonuses to their Sense Motive checks. 7- Have one of his previously bluffed encounters be so enraged by being made a fool of that he swears a vendetta against the character. 8- Character loses voice for an adventure either because of a magical effect or some really bad ale. 9- (The most important one, I think) Ignore the dice rolls. If his bluff is so completely unbelievable or could completely take all the fun out of the plot, the NPC does not believe him at all. You don't have to tell him what you rolled for Sense Motive. This is what we have DM screens for. Of course, you can remind him that the roll was modified based on the believability of his lie.
Antedeus 11-28-03, 02:22 PM	If I were you, I would admit that the PC at hand is simply better than you at this game, and hail him as your D&D King. ... ... ...of course, that's primarily because I AM the PC at hand. :-* One thing, however, that I think needs to be clarified is that my character rarely ever tells outrageous lies. Moreover, it's through his bluff skills that he's been able to survive and avoid capture thus far. He really hasn't used his lying abilities to amass large sums of cash or anything of the sort. Moreover, he has yet to directly confront the PCs, and, if he had his way, he wouldn't ever have to. Therefore, I fail to see what the problem is...
Lord T Hawkeye 11-28-03, 04:24 PM	Originally posted by Antedeus If I were you, I would admit that the PC at hand is simply better than you at this game, and hail him as your D&D King. ... ... ...of course, that's primarily because I AM the PC at hand. :-* One thing, however, that I think needs to be clarified is that my character rarely ever tells outrageous lies. Moreover, it's through his bluff skills that he's been able to survive and avoid capture thus far. He really hasn't used his lying abilities to amass large sums of cash or anything of the sort. Moreover, he has yet to directly confront the PCs, and, if he had his way, he wouldn't ever have to. Therefore, I fail to see what the problem is... As said above, I'm not out to get anyone. It's just I sometimes feel like you're calling all the shots instead of me even though I'm DM'ing. *shrug*
Antedeus 11-28-03, 04:31 PM	*shrugs* Well, next time you try to capture me, perhaps send more than two Clerics with low sense-motive abilities, and maybe I won't be able to outsmart them.
xect 11-28-03, 04:44 PM	There are times when you just cannot lie by unmagical means. If the opponent knows you (and with THAT kind of power, his opponents HAVE heard of him before facing him), they know your skills with a split tongue. And once they do, they will just decide not to listen. And if he doesnt listen, there's nothing you can do to bluff him. Bluff is still...only...human (or well, not really, but you get the point). It is only mere words uttered by a physic mouth. If the listener does not believe it because he is hostile or knows he's being told lies, or if the lie does not make sense, you can bluff Olidamara into shame and he couldn't care less. As long as a person can dismiss his own thoughts, he might be convinced, but his will makes him able to ignore what he's just learned of anyway. Or in short, outrageous bluffs or bluffs against people who know of the character's split tongue, cannot IMO be bluffed without hard magic, no matter the skill, no matter the dice.
Palin the Wizard 11-28-03, 06:06 PM	Not all lies are told with Bluff. Only the ones where the lie can actually be true (even if it's only by a very small margin). For example, you can't Bluff someone to think that the clothes they are wearing isn't the color they know it is.
Antedeus 11-28-03, 06:13 PM	Well, yes, but that's not the problem. Hawkeye's problem lies in that my character's lies are usually quite believable, or at least less than ludicrous. Now, personally, I think that being able to do lie one's way out of a situation is a very fair trait, when one is a 8th-level Rakshasa who is surrounded by four Winter Wolves and is threatened at swordpoint by an advanced Narzugon on a Nightmare.
Lord T Hawkeye 11-28-03, 08:10 PM	Originally posted by Antedeus *shrugs* Well, next time you try to capture me, perhaps send more than two Clerics with low sense-motive abilities, and maybe I won't be able to outsmart them. I blame myself for that now that I realize they could have used detect evil and discern lies to blow the cover off that. STUPID STUPID STUPID!!! ><
Antedeus 11-29-03, 03:17 PM	*thinks for a second* ...I don't have my books with me at the moment, but...does anyone know for sure if those spells are subject to Spell Immunity? If so...cha-ching! ^_^
Grand_Commander13 11-29-03, 03:50 PM	Discern Lies isn't subject to spell resistance, and neither is Detect Evil. But Antedeus, you gotta stop blowing your own horn here. You're managing to come off as a serious jerk.
Jagyr Ebonwood 11-29-03, 04:04 PM	Originally posted by Grand_Commander13 But Antedeus, you gotta stop blowing your own horn here. You're managing to come off as a serious jerk. I second that motion. Try to help without inflating your head too much, 'kay? :)
Mojave Rattler 11-29-03, 10:43 PM	Bluff isn't suggestion nor should it be treated that way. Try to think more along the lines of role playing than roll playing. Don't you think people would be naturally suspicious of a walking cat? On the flip side, if the player is just cleverly escaping situations, then don't let it bruise your ego. If he's arguing everything and being smug attempting to overrule you...you have RULE 0, wherein your word is LAW. :)
Antedeus 11-30-03, 12:28 AM	Originally posted by Grand_Commander13 Discern Lies isn't subject to spell resistance, and neither is Detect Evil. But Antedeus, you gotta stop blowing your own horn here. You're managing to come off as a serious jerk. ... ... ...okay, you'll have to understand that I did NOT expect that. Would you care to explain your comments?:confused: Originally posted by Jagyr Ebonwood I second that motion. Try to help without inflating your head too much, 'kay? :) I don't see how I'm boasting in the slightest. All I'm saying is that I've been in some tough situations so far, and if it hadn't been for my Bluff skill, I'd've been screwed. That's not bragging...that's a reflection of mistakes on my part, as a matter of fact!
ante_up 11-30-03, 12:36 AM	Originally posted by Antedeus ... ... ...okay, you'll have to understand that I did NOT expect that. Would you care to explain your comments?:confused: I don't see how I'm boasting in the slightest. All I'm saying is that I've been in some tough situations so far, and if it hadn't been for my Bluff skill, I'd've been screwed. That's not bragging...that's a reflection of mistakes on my part, as a matter of fact! I'm assuming its in reference to this. Originally posted by Antedeus ...I don't have my books with me at the moment, but...does anyone know for sure if those spells are subject to Spell Immunity? If so...cha-ching! ^_^ It makes you sound like your trying to outsmart the DM. In D&D, idealy, it is not player vs. DM but rather players and DM working together.
Antedeus 11-30-03, 12:46 AM	*shrugs* Who said I'm competing with the DM at all? I just was hoping that my character would have one less hurdle (ie: being detected) to jump.
BlaineTog 11-30-03, 01:37 AM	To Lord T Hawkeye: Part a) Kick yourself for letting anyone play a Rakshasa. I'm looking over it in the MM, and let me tell you: it is waaaaay overpowered if the player is playing a sorcerer (and still overpowered if they arn't). +7 LA? THATS BECAUSE YOU GET 7 LEVELS OF SORCERER! In fact I think I shall post it for everyone's enjoyment. From the 3.5 SRD Detect Thoughts (Su): A rakshasa can continuously use detect thoughts as the spell (caster level 18th; Will DC 15 negates). It can suppress or resume this ability as a free action. The save DC is Charisma-based. Spells: A rakshasa casts spells as a 7th-level sorcerer. Typical Sorcerer Spells Known (6/7/7/5; save DC 13 + spell level): 0—detect magic, light, mage hand, message, read magic, resistance, touch of fatigue; 1st—charm person, mage armor, magic missile, shield, silent image; 2nd—bear’s endurance, invisibility, acid arrow; 3rd—haste, suggestion. Change Shape (Su): A rakshasa can assume any humanoid form, or revert to its own form, as a standard action. In humanoid form, a rakshasa loses its claw and bite attacks (although it often equips itself with weapons and armor instead). A rakshasa remains in one form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, but the rakshasa reverts to its natural form when killed. A true seeing spell reveals its natural form. Skills: A rakshasa has a +4 racial bonus on Bluff and Disguise checks. *When using change shape, a rakshasa gains an additional +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks. If reading an opponent’s mind, its circumstance bonus on Bluff and Disguise checks increases by a further +4. RAKSHASAS AS CHARACTERS Rakshasa characters possess the following racial traits. — +2 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +6 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, +6 Charisma. —Medium size. —A rakshasa’s base land speed is 40 feet. —Darkvision out to 60 feet. —Racial Hit Dice: A rakshasa begins with seven levels of outsider, which provide 7d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +7, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +5, Ref +5, and Will +5. —Racial Skills: A rakshasa’s outsider levels give it skill points equal to 10 x (8 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Bluff, Disguise, Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Sense Motive, and Spot. A rakshasa has a +4 racial bonus on Bluff and Disguise checks, and it can gain further bonuses by using change shape (+10 on Disguise checks) and detect thoughts (+4 on Bluff and Disguise checks). —Racial Feats: A rakshasa’s outsider levels give it three feats. — +9 natural armor bonus. —Natural Weapons: Bite (1d6) and 2 claws (1d4). —Detect Thoughts (Su): The save DC is 13 + the character’s Cha modifier. —Spells: A rakshasa character casts spells as a 7th-level sorcerer. If the character takes additional levels of sorcerer, these levels stack with the rakshasa’s base spellcasting ability for spells known, spells per day, and other effects dependent on caster level. A rakshasa character likewise uses the sum of its racial spellcasting levels and class levels to determine the abilities of its familiar. —Special Qualities (see above): Change shape, damage reduction 15/good and piercing, spell resistance equal to 27 + class levels. —Automatic Languages: Common, Infernal. Bonus Languages: Sylvan, Undercommon. —Favored Class: Sorcerer. —Level adjustment +7. The only downsides are that Blessed Bolts are killers (qhich you have chosen to eschew) and that they have to play LE (which isn't really so much of a downside as a restriction). Part b) Kill him. :devil: Part c) Make his new character a Half-orc Bard :angel:
BlaineTog 11-30-03, 01:37 AM	To Lord T Hawkeye: Part a) Kick yourself for letting anyone play a Rakshasa. I'm looking over it in the MM, and let me tell you: it is waaaaay overpowered if the player is playing a sorcerer (and still overpowered if they arn't). +7 LA? THATS BECAUSE YOU GET 7 LEVELS OF SORCERER! In fact I think I shall post it for everyone's enjoyment. From the 3.5 SRD Detect Thoughts (Su): A rakshasa can continuously use detect thoughts as the spell (caster level 18th; Will DC 15 negates). It can suppress or resume this ability as a free action. The save DC is Charisma-based. Spells: A rakshasa casts spells as a 7th-level sorcerer. Typical Sorcerer Spells Known (6/7/7/5; save DC 13 + spell level): 0—detect magic, light, mage hand, message, read magic, resistance, touch of fatigue; 1st—charm person, mage armor, magic missile, shield, silent image; 2nd—bear’s endurance, invisibility, acid arrow; 3rd—haste, suggestion. Change Shape (Su): A rakshasa can assume any humanoid form, or revert to its own form, as a standard action. In humanoid form, a rakshasa loses its claw and bite attacks (although it often equips itself with weapons and armor instead). A rakshasa remains in one form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, but the rakshasa reverts to its natural form when killed. A true seeing spell reveals its natural form. Skills: A rakshasa has a +4 racial bonus on Bluff and Disguise checks. *When using change shape, a rakshasa gains an additional +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks. If reading an opponent’s mind, its circumstance bonus on Bluff and Disguise checks increases by a further +4. RAKSHASAS AS CHARACTERS Rakshasa characters possess the following racial traits. — +2 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +6 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, +6 Charisma. —Medium size. —A rakshasa’s base land speed is 40 feet. —Darkvision out to 60 feet. —Racial Hit Dice: A rakshasa begins with seven levels of outsider, which provide 7d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +7, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +5, Ref +5, and Will +5. —Racial Skills: A rakshasa’s outsider levels give it skill points equal to 10 x (8 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Bluff, Disguise, Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Sense Motive, and Spot. A rakshasa has a +4 racial bonus on Bluff and Disguise checks, and it can gain further bonuses by using change shape (+10 on Disguise checks) and detect thoughts (+4 on Bluff and Disguise checks). —Racial Feats: A rakshasa’s outsider levels give it three feats. — +9 natural armor bonus. —Natural Weapons: Bite (1d6) and 2 claws (1d4). —Detect Thoughts (Su): The save DC is 13 + the character’s Cha modifier. —Spells: A rakshasa character casts spells as a 7th-level sorcerer. If the character takes additional levels of sorcerer, these levels stack with the rakshasa’s base spellcasting ability for spells known, spells per day, and other effects dependent on caster level. A rakshasa character likewise uses the sum of its racial spellcasting levels and class levels to determine the abilities of its familiar. —Special Qualities (see above): Change shape, damage reduction 15/good and piercing, spell resistance equal to 27 + class levels. —Automatic Languages: Common, Infernal. Bonus Languages: Sylvan, Undercommon. —Favored Class: Sorcerer. —Level adjustment +7. The only downsides are that Blessed Bolts are killers (qhich you have chosen to eschew) and that they have to play LE (which isn't really so much of a downside as a restriction). Part b) Kill him. :devil: Part c) Make his new character a Half-orc Bard :angel:
Mojave Rattler 11-30-03, 01:51 AM	I'm gunna have to side with Antedeus on this one. He's got a character that's a really good liar, and the DM is too worried about this monkeywrench getting in the way of his precious monsters. Hawkeye, you're in charge, do what you like...however I know when I play, I hate to be railroaded. Yes, challenges that come up because of my actions are one thing, but nonsensical villians crafted to get into the chink in a characters armor isn't the way to go IMO. I remember playing through a certain campaign with a certain drug that was considerably potent. Suffice to say, if they didn't have some more in a couple days, they died. My character was an alchemist archer type guy who made custom arrows and such filled with varoius noxious substances, but also had a very high alchemy. I had more fun brewing up that stuff and twisting NPCs arms after I got em hooked. I was a little gnomish drug dealer, it was great. Even picked up a cohort...but suffice to say this side tracked the plot and the DM went with it because me and the other players were having fun in that setting. The moral of the story is Hawkeye, the DM and the players both serve to 'call the shots'. You present them with interesting things to do and they choose how to handle the things. If the spellcasters you throw at them are idiots then expect your players to walk all over them. If Antedeus is rules lawyering, don't let it slow the game down. Make a call, tell him to look it up and you'll know better next time. If it's just your insecurity in running the game, step back...take three deep breaths, say "its only a game, I have control" and get back into it.
Antedeus 11-30-03, 02:09 AM	*nods* Words to DM by, Mojave. ~_^ BlaineTog: First things first, we're using Savage Species, actually. Rakshasa start out INCREDIBLY weak , sicne it basically takes them through chidlhood and adolescence. They reach adulthood at level 14. Secondly, Hawkeye hasn't chosen to axe the blessed crossbow bit.
BlaineTog 11-30-03, 02:28 AM	Originally posted by Lord T Hawkeye Tsk tsk tsk! Nothing crude like that. I have no intention of killing any of my players as I like them all very much. I just don't like feeling like he's calling all the shots here.
ante_up 11-30-03, 02:34 AM	Are there are other players in your game? If so, how do they feel about you bluffing your way out of every encounter?
ManTimeForgot 11-30-03, 02:52 AM	The Raksasha is a +7 LA, and it also has 7 HD, so in a 15th level party the Raksasha would be first level. The raksasha can cast suggestion when the party wizard is lobbing around 8th level spells. Doesn't sound horrible. Thank You all and have a nice day. Signed, The Man Time Forgot
Antedeus 11-30-03, 03:47 AM	Originally posted by ManTimeForgot The Raksasha is a +7 LA, and it also has 7 HD, so in a 15th level party the Raksasha would be first level. The raksasha can cast suggestion when the party wizard is lobbing around 8th level spells. Doesn't sound horrible. Thank You all and have a nice day. Signed, The Man Time Forgot *nods* THANK you. ante_up: Quite a few more, although they won't complain. It's a Savage Species campaign, so everything rather evens out, IMO. BlaineTog: Don't misunderstand him...he means he's not going to make a conscious effort to kill one of us. If one of us does something stupid that would normally result in our deaths, however, he'll let us die. Which is more than fair, IMO.
Radagast1955 11-30-03, 03:47 AM	Ah! The Rakshasa, every Munchkin's wet dream. Face it, at only +7 ECL this creature woefully overpowered. If it's broken, the munchkins will find it. Lets see. Level 7 Sor (that’s worth +7 right there) Great bonus stats = +1 Shape Change = +1 Add the 8 sided HD for Sor levels, the 40' movement, detect thoughts and the racial adjustments for some skills and you have another +1. It's CR10 as an opponent. I see no reason why it shouldn't be +10 ECL. Don't remember how many character levels the Roxy is question had, but I'd recommend a nice Palidan with equal levels. Lets talk about Bluff, or rather multiple bluff. I don't know what game you all are playing, but in any sane game, if a character bluffs me once and I end up doing 2-10 for grand theft war horse at Valhalla State Prison, he can't bluff me again unless I'm a total moron with an INT 3. Throw away your dice on that one. Rads
Antedeus 11-30-03, 03:54 AM	A Rakshasa has to go through a whole lot of leveling up to get to that point, though...and keep in mind, I'm woefully outnumbered here. I basically have to sneak around, taking whatever potshots I can.
ManTimeForgot 11-30-03, 04:35 AM	Sorry Radagast, but maybe you missed something, like the crystal clear description of the ECL I made in the post previous to yours. The Raksasha is + 14 ECL. Not +7. It might be worth it, but while the Raksasha is slinging around a suggestion as his highest level spell, the party wizard is slinging around a horrid wilting as his highest spell. Thank You all and have a nice day. Signed, The Man Time Forgot
Tharkos 11-30-03, 04:42 AM	Sorry to say this, but I think that problem of getting a PC which is pretty much immune to everything is home made. Bluff wouldnt be such a problem on any other character, but a Rakshasa IS a very unbalancing character in the hands of a PC.
Antedeus 11-30-03, 04:44 AM	*nods* Thank God for my Devoted Defender-cohort...I'd be so screwed. -_- Sorry to say this, but I think that problem of getting a PC which is pretty much immune to everything is home made. Bluff wouldnt be such a problem on any other character, but a Rakshasa IS a very unbalancing character in the hands of a PC. *shrugs* Hey, that's your opinion, and I respect that. I DO remind you, however, that my character would be facing some pretty dismal odds, were it not for his ability to avoid direct combat - an ability which is largely based on his bluff skills.
NinjaHedge 11-30-03, 05:07 AM	Originally posted by Antedeus *nods* Thank God for my Devoted Defender-cohort...I'd be so screwed. -_- *shrugs* Hey, that's your opinion, and I respect that. I DO remind you, however, that my character would be facing some pretty dismal odds, were it not for his ability to avoid direct combat - an ability which is largely based on his bluff skills. what level is your party? Oo you can't get cohorts until...what....5th, 6th level? You're a Rakasha, that means you shouldn't be able to take that feat until your party is at level 19. Seems like there's some screwy usage of ECL going on. Seriously, that fact that the DM is coming to this board at all reaks of something being amiss. The balancing factor of such an ECL should be really overt. Can't the party wizard cast dominate person yet?
Tharkos 11-30-03, 09:58 AM	Originally posted by Antedeus *nods* Thank God for my Devoted Defender-cohort...I'd be so screwed. -_- *shrugs* Hey, that's your opinion, and I respect that. I DO remind you, however, that my character would be facing some pretty dismal odds, were it not for his ability to avoid direct combat - an ability which is largely based on his bluff skills. Well the "path to total immunity" is clear and the Rakshasa *just* needs to use fly or some other defensive spells to avoid direct combat ... which is just a little too easy if you ask me. Playing such a character in a weak way isnt making it less unbalancing. But then thats only my opinion and the DM who allowed it has to live with it. Although the Rakshasa might not be invulnerable to spells *yet*, that ability alone would be more than enough for me to make it an NPC race ... others dont even get a chance to break that immunity.
zodiki 11-30-03, 01:48 PM	Rhakshasa's last only as long as they remain secret. Once it's found out there's one on the loose - Paladins galore. All of them armed with Blessed Bolts and the leader (perhaps others) with Mind Blank and other Rakshasa-specific defenses. As the DM in this case, I'd just enforce the effects of the PC's actions and play the results realistically. If the PC is being very secretive and the party isn't blabber-mouthing, there is a very small chance he'll be discovered. If it's the other way, play out those consequences as well.