BoED: Looking for Exalted Repairs [Archive] - Wizards Community

BoED: Looking for Exalted Repairs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Yabanjin
10-29-05, 10:23 PM There have been many posts regarding the brokeness of the BoED.

OK fine, it's broken. But there are many good ideas there (no pun intended... well, actually it was intended :ayyyy!: ).

Much like RL, many are happy to share their discontent, but few work towards any solutions.

The intent of this post is to gather some house-rules that address the myriad of issues that so many gamers have with the BoED. Specifically, the hope here is that a useful thread can be created so that those that have had some success with that book can share their ideas with other interested gamers.

While I'm sure if anyone posts anything on this thread there are hosts of people waiting to ambush with rancorous flames - the explicit intent of this is thread is not to gather recriminations.

If you can't help yourself, and find that you must vehemently contradict another post, please consider making your post a constructive contribution, ideally not simply stating why the 'fix' won't work, but try and 'fix' the 'broken fix.'

So, to start things off:

Touch of Golden Ice : Useable once a day.
and/or
Touch of Golden Ice : Can not be used as part of another attack (e.g. flurry of blows).
and/or
Touch of Golden Ice : Character must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 15) and is always subject to an AoO.
and/or
Touch of Golden Ice : The touch attack must be flesh to flesh. Any foreign material that prevents actual contact such as armour, tweed, gossamer etc... is an effective shield. Hair, fur, scales, mucus etc... that is part of or exuded by the recipient does not count as foreign.

Thanks in advance!
MikelAmroni
10-30-05, 12:22 AM How to use BoED? You use BoVD as a DM, DUH! Sorry, but Vile Darkness has some seriously evil stuff in it, that is on par with Touch of Golden Ice. You have players who want to be exalted, fine, give them really bad enemies! Sorry, but the book doesn't need fixing, if you as a DM throw stuff at them that requires the abilities some of the exalted feats give them. Its just like any age old question: How do I challenge PCs with flight and teleportation: You put in challenges that require them to teleport and fly. If you don't have book of Vile darkness, then you put in enemies whose extremely high Dex will make the use of Touch of Golden Ice absolutely necessary to defeating him. Or better yet, a foe they can't actually touch! Incorporeal creatures are wonderful at making players groan. Sorry, I respond to power from my players with power. In an arms race of player vs DM, the player will always win, period. There is nothing out of Book of Exalted Deeds that can't be countered by an intelligent build of a monster, or better yet: A challenge that fighting will not solve, period. Being Exalted means they also have to ACT exalted, or they lose the feats.

As a challenge, post any exalted build. I will come up with something to challenge it, at equal CR. In fact, post a party, and I'll show you how to take them apart.
On_the_wings_of_TPK
10-30-05, 12:43 AM The intent of this post is to gather some house-rules that address the myriad of issues that so many gamers have with the BoED. Specifically, the hope here is that a useful thread can be created so that those that have had some success with that book can share their ideas with other interested gamers.

While I'm sure if anyone posts anything on this thread there are hosts of people waiting to ambush with rancorous flames - the explicit intent of this is thread is not to gather recriminations.
Not a recrimination, but a suggestion...your post kinda belongs over on the BoED board (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=434).

Best suggestion I've found to fix the BoED's brokenness? Don't allow it for PCs who can't roleplay. :P
Archtyrant Terevoth
10-30-05, 12:44 AM How to use BoED? You use BoVD as a DM, DUH! Sorry, but Vile Darkness has some seriously evil stuff in it, that is on par with Touch of Golden Ice. You have players who want to be exalted, fine, give them really bad enemies!

:rolleyes:
This is awful flawed thinking. Not everyone in your group is necessarily going to be using the BoED. This isnt' about balancing opponents versus PCs, it's PCs versus PCs. One player is an exalted guy, another is not. All the use of BoVD enemies in the world isn't going to balance those two.

Anyway, back on topic.

About touch of golden ice, personally I'd make it like using any other poison. Namely it takes you a standard action to apply the poison to your fists, and then the poison is gone on your first attack. You then must reapply it. Basically the feat grants you free golden ice poison and that's it. It doesn't let you automatically apply it.

You'd probably have to say that only one natural weapon can be poisoned at any given time, otherwise munchkins would try to poison each fist, foot and their head as a monk.

But otherwise I think that'd work.
Yabanjin
10-30-05, 03:18 AM Not a recrimination, but a suggestion...your post kinda belongs over on the BoED board (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=434).
I can't seem to access that forum. I took that to mean it was shutdown... . Thanks though.

Best suggestion I've found to fix the BoED's brokenness? Don't allow it for PCs who can't roleplay. :P
A fine idea, but many small points need to be addressed.

Any other ideas?

Bueller?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Yabanjin 10-29-05, 10:23 PM	There have been many posts regarding the brokeness of the BoED. OK fine, it's broken. But there are many good ideas there (no pun intended... well, actually it was intended :ayyyy!: ). Much like RL, many are happy to share their discontent, but few work towards any solutions. The intent of this post is to gather some house-rules that address the myriad of issues that so many gamers have with the BoED. Specifically, the hope here is that a useful thread can be created so that those that have had some success with that book can share their ideas with other interested gamers. While I'm sure if anyone posts anything on this thread there are hosts of people waiting to ambush with rancorous flames - the explicit intent of this is thread is not to gather recriminations. If you can't help yourself, and find that you must vehemently contradict another post, please consider making your post a constructive contribution, ideally not simply stating why the 'fix' won't work, but try and 'fix' the 'broken fix.' So, to start things off: Touch of Golden Ice : Useable once a day. and/or Touch of Golden Ice : Can not be used as part of another attack (e.g. flurry of blows). and/or Touch of Golden Ice : Character must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 15) and is always subject to an AoO. and/or Touch of Golden Ice : The touch attack must be flesh to flesh. Any foreign material that prevents actual contact such as armour, tweed, gossamer etc... is an effective shield. Hair, fur, scales, mucus etc... that is part of or exuded by the recipient does not count as foreign. Thanks in advance!
MikelAmroni 10-30-05, 12:22 AM	How to use BoED? You use BoVD as a DM, DUH! Sorry, but Vile Darkness has some seriously evil stuff in it, that is on par with Touch of Golden Ice. You have players who want to be exalted, fine, give them really bad enemies! Sorry, but the book doesn't need fixing, if you as a DM throw stuff at them that requires the abilities some of the exalted feats give them. Its just like any age old question: How do I challenge PCs with flight and teleportation: You put in challenges that require them to teleport and fly. If you don't have book of Vile darkness, then you put in enemies whose extremely high Dex will make the use of Touch of Golden Ice absolutely necessary to defeating him. Or better yet, a foe they can't actually touch! Incorporeal creatures are wonderful at making players groan. Sorry, I respond to power from my players with power. In an arms race of player vs DM, the player will always win, period. There is nothing out of Book of Exalted Deeds that can't be countered by an intelligent build of a monster, or better yet: A challenge that fighting will not solve, period. Being Exalted means they also have to ACT exalted, or they lose the feats. As a challenge, post any exalted build. I will come up with something to challenge it, at equal CR. In fact, post a party, and I'll show you how to take them apart.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 10-30-05, 12:43 AM	The intent of this post is to gather some house-rules that address the myriad of issues that so many gamers have with the BoED. Specifically, the hope here is that a useful thread can be created so that those that have had some success with that book can share their ideas with other interested gamers. While I'm sure if anyone posts anything on this thread there are hosts of people waiting to ambush with rancorous flames - the explicit intent of this is thread is not to gather recriminations. Not a recrimination, but a suggestion...your post kinda belongs over on the BoED board (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=434). Best suggestion I've found to fix the BoED's brokenness? Don't allow it for PCs who can't roleplay. :P
Archtyrant Terevoth 10-30-05, 12:44 AM	How to use BoED? You use BoVD as a DM, DUH! Sorry, but Vile Darkness has some seriously evil stuff in it, that is on par with Touch of Golden Ice. You have players who want to be exalted, fine, give them really bad enemies! :rolleyes: This is awful flawed thinking. Not everyone in your group is necessarily going to be using the BoED. This isnt' about balancing opponents versus PCs, it's PCs versus PCs. One player is an exalted guy, another is not. All the use of BoVD enemies in the world isn't going to balance those two. Anyway, back on topic. About touch of golden ice, personally I'd make it like using any other poison. Namely it takes you a standard action to apply the poison to your fists, and then the poison is gone on your first attack. You then must reapply it. Basically the feat grants you free golden ice poison and that's it. It doesn't let you automatically apply it. You'd probably have to say that only one natural weapon can be poisoned at any given time, otherwise munchkins would try to poison each fist, foot and their head as a monk. But otherwise I think that'd work.
Yabanjin 10-30-05, 03:18 AM	Not a recrimination, but a suggestion...your post kinda belongs over on the BoED board (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=434). I can't seem to access that forum. I took that to mean it was shutdown... . Thanks though. Best suggestion I've found to fix the BoED's brokenness? Don't allow it for PCs who can't roleplay. :P A fine idea, but many small points need to be addressed. Any other ideas? Bueller?