BoH+BoH=BOOM=??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

BoH+BoH=BOOM=??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TinySilverChalice
11-23-03, 07:39 PM I asked over at the FR Magic board, but no one seems to know.

Even the youngest newbie seems to know that you don't put a Bag of Holding inside another Bag of Holding. Why not? "Big boom," has been the answer at our table for years.

Now myself and my co-DMs were discussing possible actions for our next BEEG. We figured he/she/it might use this old trick as either a terrorist tactic, threaten to do so, so have the PCs come across where this has happened.

One problem: None of us really knew what we have been meaning by "boom".

Is it an expolsion? A silent, super-quick, unavoidable Sphere of Anniolation kind if thing? Does it rip a hole into some random plane, sucking everything for miles into it? And what's the range on whatever kind of destruction it would do?

We can't seem to find an offical answer anywhere: Just what happens when you put an extra-dimentional space into another one? Help? :confused:
king_of_evil007
11-23-03, 07:44 PM Well, if I remember correctly, everything is sucked to a random plane.

Does everyone just disappear? No boom? Up to you.

I'd say that you see a round sphere about the size of the largest bag of holding, and the sphere shows the astral plane.
Everyone within the indicated space is sucked in. Their bodies stretch and their features blend together as everything close enough is sucked through.
Xaxor
11-23-03, 07:46 PM I don't think a Bag of Holding in another Bag of Holding would do anything. Its putting a Bag of Holding in a Portable Hole or the other way around that causes trouble. There shouldn't be any affect, otherwise it would be mentioned.
Fixxxer
11-23-03, 07:59 PM Originally posted by Xaxor
I don't think a Bag of Holding in another Bag of Holding would do anything. Its putting a Bag of Holding in a Portable Hole or the other way around that causes trouble. There shouldn't be any affect, otherwise it would be mentioned.

Granted, it's no specifically mentioned in the item description that a BoH inside a BoH is bad juju, but it's understood. It has been understood for many years, through many editions, if I interpret correctly. The idea is that placing a permenant extra-dimensional space inside of another peremenant extra-dimensional space is bad juju.

Unfortunately, the only official written work I can think of off the top of my head that supports this is the D&D FAQ, where a question was posed regarding whether a BoH inside of the effect of a Rope Trick spell would cause bad things to happen. :(
Edymnion
11-23-03, 09:13 PM I believe the entry you want is in the DMG under the entry for the Bag of Holding (its on page 210 in the 3.0 DMG). Here it is quoted out for easy referance:
If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole, a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed in a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process.Not exactly word for word what you wanted, but I'd use the "Portable hole put into a Bag of Holding" route, as you're putting the extra-dimensional space in the bag. Aka, the two bags and anything within 10 feet get sucked in.
MinusInnocence
11-23-03, 09:22 PM Agreed. Both the Bag of Holding and the Portable Hole have a finite amount of space inside, but this space is greatly enhanced due to manipulation of the Astral Plane. I suspect such items are something akin to a fold in the Astral Fabric.

Another way to think about it, philosophically, would be to imagine the Bags and Holes and Haversacks and whatever else you can envision as tiny pieces of the Astral that have been nipped and tucked away, and used to line the inside of these small, extradimensional chambers.

So, when the Astral Plane realizes that a part of itself is inside a part of itself, even though these two separate parts were each in potentially very different places to begin with (I'm not claiming the Astral Plane has any measure of sentience, but it is a highly magical plane and I imagine the effects would be similar to what I'm describing)... it lashes out by obliterating both of them, sucking them back to where they belong. Unfortunately, everything within ten feet has to come along for the ride.

In any event, my point is, Bags and Holes and Haversacks and everything else that involves extradimensional storge facilities are simply one and the same. You can't store something that isn't there inside something that also isn't really there... that just means you have a whole bunch of nothing.
Kenkai
11-23-03, 10:56 PM according to your logic, a portable hole put into a bag of holding should do the same thing as a bag of holding put into a portable hole.

but they don't do the same thing.
Fixxxer
11-24-03, 12:19 PM Originally posted by Kenkai
according to your logic, a portable hole put into a bag of holding should do the same thing as a bag of holding put into a portable hole.

but they don't do the same thing.

Actually, they do...the only difference is the final location for the items inside.
jasper
11-24-03, 10:20 PM From what I remember from an old Dragon mag answer column, A bag of holding can hold 1 bag of holding and then 1 gp.
Kliqueman
11-24-03, 10:56 PM I've always used the "people in "blast area" plane shifted elsewhere thing. Though, define it how you like.. its your game. Though, I can see a terrorist guy doing such who just loves going into taverns, placing BOH1 into BOH2 to send everyone else to different places of fun. But what that guy needs is an amulet or something with a contiual dimensional anchor on it, so he stays right where he is.
Kliqueman
11-24-03, 10:56 PM oops, double post.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TinySilverChalice 11-23-03, 07:39 PM	I asked over at the FR Magic board, but no one seems to know. Even the youngest newbie seems to know that you don't put a Bag of Holding inside another Bag of Holding. Why not? "Big boom," has been the answer at our table for years. Now myself and my co-DMs were discussing possible actions for our next BEEG. We figured he/she/it might use this old trick as either a terrorist tactic, threaten to do so, so have the PCs come across where this has happened. One problem: None of us really knew what we have been meaning by "boom". Is it an expolsion? A silent, super-quick, unavoidable Sphere of Anniolation kind if thing? Does it rip a hole into some random plane, sucking everything for miles into it? And what's the range on whatever kind of destruction it would do? We can't seem to find an offical answer anywhere: Just what happens when you put an extra-dimentional space into another one? Help? :confused:
king_of_evil007 11-23-03, 07:44 PM	Well, if I remember correctly, everything is sucked to a random plane. Does everyone just disappear? No boom? Up to you. I'd say that you see a round sphere about the size of the largest bag of holding, and the sphere shows the astral plane. Everyone within the indicated space is sucked in. Their bodies stretch and their features blend together as everything close enough is sucked through.
Xaxor 11-23-03, 07:46 PM	I don't think a Bag of Holding in another Bag of Holding would do anything. Its putting a Bag of Holding in a Portable Hole or the other way around that causes trouble. There shouldn't be any affect, otherwise it would be mentioned.
Fixxxer 11-23-03, 07:59 PM	Originally posted by Xaxor I don't think a Bag of Holding in another Bag of Holding would do anything. Its putting a Bag of Holding in a Portable Hole or the other way around that causes trouble. There shouldn't be any affect, otherwise it would be mentioned. Granted, it's no specifically mentioned in the item description that a BoH inside a BoH is bad juju, but it's understood. It has been understood for many years, through many editions, if I interpret correctly. The idea is that placing a permenant extra-dimensional space inside of another peremenant extra-dimensional space is bad juju. Unfortunately, the only official written work I can think of off the top of my head that supports this is the D&D FAQ, where a question was posed regarding whether a BoH inside of the effect of a Rope Trick spell would cause bad things to happen. :(
Edymnion 11-23-03, 09:13 PM	I believe the entry you want is in the DMG under the entry for the Bag of Holding (its on page 210 in the 3.0 DMG). Here it is quoted out for easy referance: If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole, a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed in a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process.Not exactly word for word what you wanted, but I'd use the "Portable hole put into a Bag of Holding" route, as you're putting the extra-dimensional space in the bag. Aka, the two bags and anything within 10 feet get sucked in.
MinusInnocence 11-23-03, 09:22 PM	Agreed. Both the Bag of Holding and the Portable Hole have a finite amount of space inside, but this space is greatly enhanced due to manipulation of the Astral Plane. I suspect such items are something akin to a fold in the Astral Fabric. Another way to think about it, philosophically, would be to imagine the Bags and Holes and Haversacks and whatever else you can envision as tiny pieces of the Astral that have been nipped and tucked away, and used to line the inside of these small, extradimensional chambers. So, when the Astral Plane realizes that a part of itself is inside a part of itself, even though these two separate parts were each in potentially very different places to begin with (I'm not claiming the Astral Plane has any measure of sentience, but it is a highly magical plane and I imagine the effects would be similar to what I'm describing)... it lashes out by obliterating both of them, sucking them back to where they belong. Unfortunately, everything within ten feet has to come along for the ride. In any event, my point is, Bags and Holes and Haversacks and everything else that involves extradimensional storge facilities are simply one and the same. You can't store something that isn't there inside something that also isn't really there... that just means you have a whole bunch of nothing.
Kenkai 11-23-03, 10:56 PM	according to your logic, a portable hole put into a bag of holding should do the same thing as a bag of holding put into a portable hole. but they don't do the same thing.
Fixxxer 11-24-03, 12:19 PM	Originally posted by Kenkai according to your logic, a portable hole put into a bag of holding should do the same thing as a bag of holding put into a portable hole. but they don't do the same thing. Actually, they do...the only difference is the final location for the items inside.
jasper 11-24-03, 10:20 PM	From what I remember from an old Dragon mag answer column, A bag of holding can hold 1 bag of holding and then 1 gp.
Kliqueman 11-24-03, 10:56 PM	I've always used the "people in "blast area" plane shifted elsewhere thing. Though, define it how you like.. its your game. Though, I can see a terrorist guy doing such who just loves going into taverns, placing BOH1 into BOH2 to send everyone else to different places of fun. But what that guy needs is an amulet or something with a contiual dimensional anchor on it, so he stays right where he is.
Kliqueman 11-24-03, 10:56 PM	oops, double post.