bonus to Hit Points. [Archive] - Wizards Community

bonus to Hit Points. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sargon
05-22-05, 09:11 PM One of my more inexperinced players (a Cleric) has expressed concern to me that His charactr has very little HP for his level and amoungst the group. His Hp is in the 30's i belive and he is 7th level. Even the sorcerror has more HP than the Cleric.. This is caused by the 10 con score thus no extra HP are awarded for the Con ability modifier..

I've been trying to come up with a way to in game help the plyer out.. Something like a magical TAttoo but even an Item that gives a +4 on Con cost 16000 gp and will only equate to about 14 hp.

I've concidered charging him a 1000 per HP and making him role play (since he needs to work on the RP) to get the Tatoo. But magic tattoo's are uncommon and the caster it takes a caster level of.. 5?

I was wondering if you master DM's have any advice or suggestions for this little problem of ours.

Thnx in advance
Vapthorne
05-22-05, 09:28 PM My thoughts:

- The average number of HP for a d8 is 5. Times that by 7, and you'll get 35 hp. So it sounds like this cleric is average (unless you want to give a rundown the HPs disbursted throught out your party).

- Maybe his rolls weren't that stellar, or had to place his point buy elsewhere. But, no offense, it's his own fault for giving himself a higher CON score. He made a choice, and should learn to accept that.

- You can go with the tatoo, but an Amulet of Health will boast his HP.

- Final note: someone with magically healing should not worry about HP too much.
illiterate
05-22-05, 09:28 PM Character hpees = 30something.

Expected hpees = 35 (8+6x4.5)

what exactly is the problem?
flamefist drunkenmonk
05-22-05, 09:30 PM Iv got my own opinions about him having low hp.. but thats not what your asking so ill try to stay away from my rants :D

+4 con item = really good... the 14 hp may not seem like much to you, but dont forget save bonus's because of higher stats.

1000 gp for an HP... *thinks* i cant put my finger on it exactly, but something just feels wrong about that one...

Something i would suggest to the player that they should invest in "bears endurance" potions, its saves him spells per day that he can use for other things. +4 con never hurt, and since they're a cleric they shouldnt have to much of a hard time healing themselves after battle.

If hes getting the crap beaten out of him, tell him that its safer to be away from the big bad monster than right up next to it (doesnt matter how much hp he has if he cant get hit)

On the notion of not getting hit, hows his AC? If its low thats something else he should look into.

Edit: *thinks to self* Whoaa.... 3 posts in 2 min... :D
Mal'Hellion
05-22-05, 09:33 PM I think about 38hp would be about average for a 7th level cleric with no constitution bonus. So if he has hit points in the 30's he is right on track.

Assuming he is a good aligned cleric you might remind him that his character always has healing spells available, unlike say a fighter who must rely on a cleric to heal his wounds, or must use potions.

Also, a higher armor class would help to offset the need for more hit points in some cases.

Depending on the groups makeup he might also avoid melee when possible, but that might go against how he views/plays his character.
High Octane
05-22-05, 09:38 PM He can take the toughness feat or he can put his next ability point into con, which may help. If not the next 2 ability points.

Even a +2 con item would help. I wouldnt worry too much about him, hes a cleric. He should have a high AC and a high will save and fort save. The only thing he has to fear are lightning bolts and fireballs. If so, he could take the divine oracle class long enough to get the evasion-like feature that works in any armor.

You shouldnt have to cater to his weaknesses, its his job to find ways around it. Anyway, there are manuals that give you inherent bonuses to con if thats something you want to add as a quest reward.
Bloodtide_the_Red
05-22-05, 09:52 PM Low Hit Points is a fairly common player complant. Not that there is much you should realy do about it, of course. Each class or bulid even will have diffrent hp's, because they are diffrent. A player should not compare characters anyway. Someone in the group will always have the most hp's and someone will always have the least. It's life.

So he has to hang back a bit in combat, he does not get to charge the dragon, oh well.

To make him 'happy' though, potions of Bear's Endurance can work for a nice cheap buff. Or take the spell, Bear Endurance. Or take the Feats Toughness or Diehard. Or take a level or two of fighter. Theas are all legal ways a low hp cleric can get more hp's, though at a cost.

BT
Geethree
05-22-05, 10:44 PM I don't really see a problem. He does not have significantly less HP than the average. If he wants more HP, he should have put points into constitution.

Besides, he can heal himself and wear heavy armor. He's not in that much trouble.
weasel fierce
05-23-05, 02:18 AM Tell him he can exchange hit points with the sorcerer, provided he gives up that plate mail
JadeSpider9643
05-23-05, 02:40 AM I see 3 primary choices for the Cleric:
1) Get off the front lines! Get a crossbow or sling and step back 10ft
2) Take a level or 2 of fighter with Improved Toughness as one of the bonus feats
3) Stop getting hit! Mithril Shirt +X, Amulet of Natural Armor +X, Gloves of Dexterity +Y, Where X is as much as you can afford, and Y is whatever gets you to your armors Max Dex bonus.
WCH
05-23-05, 03:06 AM 35 is average for a 10 Con cleric, yes... but since the average Con is probably 14, the average hp of a lvl 7 cleric is probably more around 49 -- significantly higher than what he has.

Of course, that is his fault for taking such a low Con score. You should remind him of that, and ask him why he didn't take a higher Con. If he says he needed his Wis and Cha first, then tell him that he should be glad of how powerful his spells are and how good he is at turning undead, and that if he would've preferred to have good hitpoints and be worse at turning or casting, then he should have distributed his points appropriately at the start.

Everything comes at the cost of something else, after all.

Aside from that, yes, items which boost Con are in order. Just put one in the next treasure or something. :)
Carn Vandoril
05-23-05, 06:01 AM As said, the Cleric is a strong class. He shouldn't worry about hp because he can easily heal him self.
He's good in front of the fight.
He's good at spellcasting.
Brew's his own potions.
He wears the best armor like the fighter.

No problem, he's a cleric, not a fighter.
Just a few examples from 1-level spelllist:
protection against x. (boost AC)
sanctuary (you are safe)
summon and command. (let them be the hp you need).

You as DM don't have to give him anything extra. Let him buy or earn stuff like anybody else.
Venom of the Yuan Ti
05-23-05, 06:46 AM Just out of curiosity, what are the Sorcerours hp? Adverige on a d4 is 2.5, level 7 so you are looking at 19 on adverige before con (4+(6*2.5)), so if he rolled adverige then the min his con would be is 14. That is pretty high, is this more down to good rolling? in which case I can begin to empathise.
snowlynx
05-23-05, 09:29 AM Alternate hit point systems:
I know that having low hit points (so that monster kill ya really easily) is a pain...I usually let them roll two dice and take the better die of the roll. This gives people more hit points on average, and ensures my group isn't dying every session. If you're truly and painfully nice, you might give all the players the option of rerolling using this method.

That being said:
Putting a low stat in con is probably his fault; he should have to pay the price for standard items. You shouldn't do anything for this cleric that you wouldn't do for any member of the group, just because he has less hit points.

Items I know of in books:
Somewhere in the forgotten realm books is an amulet that gives 25 temp hit points; when these are used up, they are used up. I believe it is for the witches of rasheman, if that helps narrow down what books to check.

There's a feat in complete warrior, some sort of improved toughness, that gives the equivalent of a +1 con modifier- it adds one hit point per hit die, and it works with the hit dice the character has already accumulated along with all future levels. I would offer him this feat for whern he reaches 9th level- if he doesn't take it, I wouldn't worry about his low hit points too much; it's clear it's not as important to him as other abilities.
Crunchy Frog
05-23-05, 09:48 AM A cleric wants to wear a periapt of WIS in his amulet slot, so an amulet of CON probably won't do. An Ioun Stone can give a +2 CON without taking up this slot.
Count Arioch the 28th
05-23-05, 10:11 AM He has above average HP for a 7th level cleric with 10 con. Average of 8 + 6d8 = 29.

(Average roll for a d8 is NOT 5. It is 4.5. There's a difference. )
Phrennzy
05-23-05, 10:35 AM He has above average HP for a 7th level cleric with 10 con. Average of 8 + 6d8 = 29.

(Average roll for a d8 is NOT 5. It is 4.5. There's a difference. )

I think your math is wrong. 8+(4.5*6) = 35, not 29.
Phrennzy
05-23-05, 10:37 AM The cleric made his own bed by taking a 10 CON.

He has his own healing - so he should be fine.

Don't give him any special treatment. If he is really that worried about his HP, then he'll seek out that Amulet of Con +4, and pay for it.
Count Arioch the 28th
05-23-05, 10:38 AM Well don't I feel stupid. You're right, Phrennzy.

Never mind me, I passed algebra with a D back in high school.

(I got ten bucks that someone else points it out before reading my admission of error.)
AramilWindwalker
05-23-05, 10:55 AM Improved toughness will work as well, if he is willing to burn a feat, or get craft wondrous item feat and make himself an amulet of con.
Sargon
05-23-05, 11:55 AM My orginal Thinking was.. put a 10 in CON and.. well... you just have a 10 CON.

He is kind of inexperinced though, so i didn't want to punsh him... In fact I just asked the player why he thinks he need more HP and he told me.. "With some of the creatures you throw against us one crit and i'm dead" They fought som Hell Cats that Messed the group up.. Then again the Cleric did just.. Dismiss one.. that was prety handy.

I wasn't planning on giving him any special treatment.. Infact i made him Role play going out and looking for someone to Ink him. it wasn't until then that i revealed to him that Magic Tatoo's where illegal in his order infac tany tatooing is highly frowned upon. The reason being Thay Uses Tatoo Magic And the Country of Tyr is most made up of various tribes (in my campiagn). Tyr has a problem with Thay taking slaves from Tyr.. And the fact that Thaty uses Tatoo magic its been outlawed.

Thanks for all the Replies... I apppreciate it Oh BTW he has a 28 AC so... he doesn't get hit that often.

his stats are Down the List. 15 16 10 16 20 10

I'm looking at the character sheet... Alterness Endurance Die Hard Combat casting and brew potion. ... I don't get it but its his character
Cadfan
05-23-05, 12:18 PM If you feel like being a really, really nice guy, and if he's really an inexperienced player, let him switch his dex and his con stat. Or his int and his con, but in that case, make sure you revoke all the skill points he shouldn't have.

New players sometimes make bad decisions. Its part of being new. And its ok to let them get a do over on a few of them, especially when that decision will have long term consequences from the moment of character creation (when they are the most noob) all the way until the end of the campaign, many months in the future. No point in making them unhappy for all that time.

Otherwise, don't give him any special treatment. He has as many hp as he's supposed to have. Giving him special treatment to fix himself up after a bad design choice will just encourage other players to make dumb decisions, then whine to you afterwards to fix them.
wonlee76
05-23-05, 12:23 PM For a cleric, I would have suggested switching Dex with Con. The strength is needed to lug around the heavy armor and shield. The Dex gets crippled as he gets heavier and heavier armor. Maybe make him go through a quest to switch his ability scores through a miracle/wish. At least then you're not really favoring him for his choice but rather giving him a chance to "fix" what he perceives is the problem.

[EDIT: Yes, me and Cadfan share the same mind. Switching Dex for Con is probably the "best" solution with the appropriate RP requirements beforehand.]
Phrennzy
05-23-05, 01:37 PM Switching stats is a fix I would definately allow - especially trading good ones, like Dex for Con. That seems a fair fix, and not something other players will be wanting to do, as opposed to everyone sporting a +6 CON tattoo on their inner thigh.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sargon 05-22-05, 09:11 PM	One of my more inexperinced players (a Cleric) has expressed concern to me that His charactr has very little HP for his level and amoungst the group. His Hp is in the 30's i belive and he is 7th level. Even the sorcerror has more HP than the Cleric.. This is caused by the 10 con score thus no extra HP are awarded for the Con ability modifier.. I've been trying to come up with a way to in game help the plyer out.. Something like a magical TAttoo but even an Item that gives a +4 on Con cost 16000 gp and will only equate to about 14 hp. I've concidered charging him a 1000 per HP and making him role play (since he needs to work on the RP) to get the Tatoo. But magic tattoo's are uncommon and the caster it takes a caster level of.. 5? I was wondering if you master DM's have any advice or suggestions for this little problem of ours. Thnx in advance
Vapthorne 05-22-05, 09:28 PM	My thoughts: - The average number of HP for a d8 is 5. Times that by 7, and you'll get 35 hp. So it sounds like this cleric is average (unless you want to give a rundown the HPs disbursted throught out your party). - Maybe his rolls weren't that stellar, or had to place his point buy elsewhere. But, no offense, it's his own fault for giving himself a higher CON score. He made a choice, and should learn to accept that. - You can go with the tatoo, but an Amulet of Health will boast his HP. - Final note: someone with magically healing should not worry about HP too much.
illiterate 05-22-05, 09:28 PM	Character hpees = 30something. Expected hpees = 35 (8+6x4.5) what exactly is the problem?
flamefist drunkenmonk 05-22-05, 09:30 PM	Iv got my own opinions about him having low hp.. but thats not what your asking so ill try to stay away from my rants :D +4 con item = really good... the 14 hp may not seem like much to you, but dont forget save bonus's because of higher stats. 1000 gp for an HP... thinks i cant put my finger on it exactly, but something just feels wrong about that one... Something i would suggest to the player that they should invest in "bears endurance" potions, its saves him spells per day that he can use for other things. +4 con never hurt, and since they're a cleric they shouldnt have to much of a hard time healing themselves after battle. If hes getting the crap beaten out of him, tell him that its safer to be away from the big bad monster than right up next to it (doesnt matter how much hp he has if he cant get hit) On the notion of not getting hit, hows his AC? If its low thats something else he should look into. Edit: thinks to self Whoaa.... 3 posts in 2 min... :D
Mal'Hellion 05-22-05, 09:33 PM	I think about 38hp would be about average for a 7th level cleric with no constitution bonus. So if he has hit points in the 30's he is right on track. Assuming he is a good aligned cleric you might remind him that his character always has healing spells available, unlike say a fighter who must rely on a cleric to heal his wounds, or must use potions. Also, a higher armor class would help to offset the need for more hit points in some cases. Depending on the groups makeup he might also avoid melee when possible, but that might go against how he views/plays his character.
High Octane 05-22-05, 09:38 PM	He can take the toughness feat or he can put his next ability point into con, which may help. If not the next 2 ability points. Even a +2 con item would help. I wouldnt worry too much about him, hes a cleric. He should have a high AC and a high will save and fort save. The only thing he has to fear are lightning bolts and fireballs. If so, he could take the divine oracle class long enough to get the evasion-like feature that works in any armor. You shouldnt have to cater to his weaknesses, its his job to find ways around it. Anyway, there are manuals that give you inherent bonuses to con if thats something you want to add as a quest reward.
Bloodtide_the_Red 05-22-05, 09:52 PM	Low Hit Points is a fairly common player complant. Not that there is much you should realy do about it, of course. Each class or bulid even will have diffrent hp's, because they are diffrent. A player should not compare characters anyway. Someone in the group will always have the most hp's and someone will always have the least. It's life. So he has to hang back a bit in combat, he does not get to charge the dragon, oh well. To make him 'happy' though, potions of Bear's Endurance can work for a nice cheap buff. Or take the spell, Bear Endurance. Or take the Feats Toughness or Diehard. Or take a level or two of fighter. Theas are all legal ways a low hp cleric can get more hp's, though at a cost. BT
Geethree 05-22-05, 10:44 PM	I don't really see a problem. He does not have significantly less HP than the average. If he wants more HP, he should have put points into constitution. Besides, he can heal himself and wear heavy armor. He's not in that much trouble.
weasel fierce 05-23-05, 02:18 AM	Tell him he can exchange hit points with the sorcerer, provided he gives up that plate mail
JadeSpider9643 05-23-05, 02:40 AM	I see 3 primary choices for the Cleric: 1) Get off the front lines! Get a crossbow or sling and step back 10ft 2) Take a level or 2 of fighter with Improved Toughness as one of the bonus feats 3) Stop getting hit! Mithril Shirt +X, Amulet of Natural Armor +X, Gloves of Dexterity +Y, Where X is as much as you can afford, and Y is whatever gets you to your armors Max Dex bonus.
WCH 05-23-05, 03:06 AM	35 is average for a 10 Con cleric, yes... but since the average Con is probably 14, the average hp of a lvl 7 cleric is probably more around 49 -- significantly higher than what he has. Of course, that is his fault for taking such a low Con score. You should remind him of that, and ask him why he didn't take a higher Con. If he says he needed his Wis and Cha first, then tell him that he should be glad of how powerful his spells are and how good he is at turning undead, and that if he would've preferred to have good hitpoints and be worse at turning or casting, then he should have distributed his points appropriately at the start. Everything comes at the cost of something else, after all. Aside from that, yes, items which boost Con are in order. Just put one in the next treasure or something. :)
Carn Vandoril 05-23-05, 06:01 AM	As said, the Cleric is a strong class. He shouldn't worry about hp because he can easily heal him self. He's good in front of the fight. He's good at spellcasting. Brew's his own potions. He wears the best armor like the fighter. No problem, he's a cleric, not a fighter. Just a few examples from 1-level spelllist: protection against x. (boost AC) sanctuary (you are safe) summon and command. (let them be the hp you need). You as DM don't have to give him anything extra. Let him buy or earn stuff like anybody else.
Venom of the Yuan Ti 05-23-05, 06:46 AM	Just out of curiosity, what are the Sorcerours hp? Adverige on a d4 is 2.5, level 7 so you are looking at 19 on adverige before con (4+(6*2.5)), so if he rolled adverige then the min his con would be is 14. That is pretty high, is this more down to good rolling? in which case I can begin to empathise.
snowlynx 05-23-05, 09:29 AM	Alternate hit point systems: I know that having low hit points (so that monster kill ya really easily) is a pain...I usually let them roll two dice and take the better die of the roll. This gives people more hit points on average, and ensures my group isn't dying every session. If you're truly and painfully nice, you might give all the players the option of rerolling using this method. That being said: Putting a low stat in con is probably his fault; he should have to pay the price for standard items. You shouldn't do anything for this cleric that you wouldn't do for any member of the group, just because he has less hit points. Items I know of in books: Somewhere in the forgotten realm books is an amulet that gives 25 temp hit points; when these are used up, they are used up. I believe it is for the witches of rasheman, if that helps narrow down what books to check. There's a feat in complete warrior, some sort of improved toughness, that gives the equivalent of a +1 con modifier- it adds one hit point per hit die, and it works with the hit dice the character has already accumulated along with all future levels. I would offer him this feat for whern he reaches 9th level- if he doesn't take it, I wouldn't worry about his low hit points too much; it's clear it's not as important to him as other abilities.
Crunchy Frog 05-23-05, 09:48 AM	A cleric wants to wear a periapt of WIS in his amulet slot, so an amulet of CON probably won't do. An Ioun Stone can give a +2 CON without taking up this slot.
Count Arioch the 28th 05-23-05, 10:11 AM	He has above average HP for a 7th level cleric with 10 con. Average of 8 + 6d8 = 29. (Average roll for a d8 is NOT 5. It is 4.5. There's a difference. )
Phrennzy 05-23-05, 10:35 AM	He has above average HP for a 7th level cleric with 10 con. Average of 8 + 6d8 = 29. (Average roll for a d8 is NOT 5. It is 4.5. There's a difference. ) I think your math is wrong. 8+(4.5*6) = 35, not 29.
Phrennzy 05-23-05, 10:37 AM	The cleric made his own bed by taking a 10 CON. He has his own healing - so he should be fine. Don't give him any special treatment. If he is really that worried about his HP, then he'll seek out that Amulet of Con +4, and pay for it.
Count Arioch the 28th 05-23-05, 10:38 AM	Well don't I feel stupid. You're right, Phrennzy. Never mind me, I passed algebra with a D back in high school. (I got ten bucks that someone else points it out before reading my admission of error.)
AramilWindwalker 05-23-05, 10:55 AM	Improved toughness will work as well, if he is willing to burn a feat, or get craft wondrous item feat and make himself an amulet of con.
Sargon 05-23-05, 11:55 AM	My orginal Thinking was.. put a 10 in CON and.. well... you just have a 10 CON. He is kind of inexperinced though, so i didn't want to punsh him... In fact I just asked the player why he thinks he need more HP and he told me.. "With some of the creatures you throw against us one crit and i'm dead" They fought som Hell Cats that Messed the group up.. Then again the Cleric did just.. Dismiss one.. that was prety handy. I wasn't planning on giving him any special treatment.. Infact i made him Role play going out and looking for someone to Ink him. it wasn't until then that i revealed to him that Magic Tatoo's where illegal in his order infac tany tatooing is highly frowned upon. The reason being Thay Uses Tatoo Magic And the Country of Tyr is most made up of various tribes (in my campiagn). Tyr has a problem with Thay taking slaves from Tyr.. And the fact that Thaty uses Tatoo magic its been outlawed. Thanks for all the Replies... I apppreciate it Oh BTW he has a 28 AC so... he doesn't get hit that often. his stats are Down the List. 15 16 10 16 20 10 I'm looking at the character sheet... Alterness Endurance Die Hard Combat casting and brew potion. ... I don't get it but its his character
Cadfan 05-23-05, 12:18 PM	If you feel like being a really, really nice guy, and if he's really an inexperienced player, let him switch his dex and his con stat. Or his int and his con, but in that case, make sure you revoke all the skill points he shouldn't have. New players sometimes make bad decisions. Its part of being new. And its ok to let them get a do over on a few of them, especially when that decision will have long term consequences from the moment of character creation (when they are the most noob) all the way until the end of the campaign, many months in the future. No point in making them unhappy for all that time. Otherwise, don't give him any special treatment. He has as many hp as he's supposed to have. Giving him special treatment to fix himself up after a bad design choice will just encourage other players to make dumb decisions, then whine to you afterwards to fix them.
wonlee76 05-23-05, 12:23 PM	For a cleric, I would have suggested switching Dex with Con. The strength is needed to lug around the heavy armor and shield. The Dex gets crippled as he gets heavier and heavier armor. Maybe make him go through a quest to switch his ability scores through a miracle/wish. At least then you're not really favoring him for his choice but rather giving him a chance to "fix" what he perceives is the problem. [EDIT: Yes, me and Cadfan share the same mind. Switching Dex for Con is probably the "best" solution with the appropriate RP requirements beforehand.]
Phrennzy 05-23-05, 01:37 PM	Switching stats is a fix I would definately allow - especially trading good ones, like Dex for Con. That seems a fair fix, and not something other players will be wanting to do, as opposed to everyone sporting a +6 CON tattoo on their inner thigh.