books-effects on your game? [Archive] - Wizards Community

books-effects on your game? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rbrt_Spade
08-13-05, 11:38 AM from the lists of books ppl own on the boards, what do you ppl do to control game balance? ive seen ppl on here who own every 3.5 & 3.0 books.-players do that to.-what do you guys do to control feats,prcs ect.? also in some groups i would be mad as a player if a owned a lot of spat books and cant use them.
also how many books do you guys have and why? i think having a lot of books is crazy-do you even use them besides read them? i only buy the books that i will use than buy every but that comes out.
i own 6 and finishing of the 3.0class books becuase i like them more than the complete books.
mine
phb
dmg
mm
psihb
t&b
s&f
Board_Rider
08-13-05, 11:43 AM In let rules balance the game. Not books. I would love more books but between me and my group we have many of them covered. I allow all things WoTC in my game.
Tiruvel
08-13-05, 12:49 PM I unfortunately(?) don't have that problem. Only two of my three regular players have got the players handbook (one of them FINALLY bought it a few ways ago..), and although they are great roleplayers their main problem is that they are not that "knowledgeable" concerning their characters' possibilities... They're kinda more interested in background and character-attitudes than rules... :P
evilgenius
08-13-05, 01:06 PM My solution is I allow 1 splat book per character.

For the most part, each book is balanced within itself by playtesting. However, it's when you combine feats, PrCs spells and items from different books that really unforseen powergaming comes up.

Go the the Character Optimization boards, and see just how few of those super-build characters rely on the SRD alone, or on one splatbook. Almost none of them.
Kes Alanadel
08-13-05, 01:37 PM Tifus and I own quite a few books, and in the campaign I am running right now it's 'core only'. I did that for a couple of reasons: 1) one player is new to D&D, and I didn't want her to be more overwhelmed than it can already be. 2) some of the other players are new to 3.5 (they played 3.0) and they need to figure out the tweaks between the two editions. 3) I haven't read all the books we have, and I am still new enough to the DM chair, I don't want to have to look in 10 different books to make sure something is being used correctly.

My thoughts on player's splat books- if I am the DM, I say what is and isn't used. If we/I don't own the book, it isn't used. If that makes a player mad, sorry I really don't care, I'm not going to allow something I don't know into a game. I want to be able to know what a feat/class/ability is thoroughly so that it is used correctly. I also reserve the right to say that some parts of splat books are not allowed at all. Just because it is in a WotC publication, doesn't mean that it fits in the campaign/world that I am running.
Khastalphos
08-13-05, 02:05 PM For my PCs, I allow anything from the PHB with no questions asked. Everything else is discussed on a case-by-case basis. This keeps me from getting blindsided by anything overpowered or inappropriate that I may not have read about before.
kliate
08-13-05, 08:06 PM I've experimented with a few policies on which books to allow, and have found that as long as the DM has a firm grasp on their contents, and the players a reasonable understanding, that almost any policy is workable.

In my previous campaign ("Eagle's Talon"), it was pretty much anything goes. Characters included humans, elves and even a savage progression troll. As the campaign took place in an isolated region of a largely undeveloped world, it was an easy matter to work in features from virtually any book.

Now, for my current campaign (Name Pending, placed in the Forgotten Realms), I've decided to try a slightly more strict policy (still, its hardly a prohibitive one) largely because the number of books being brought to the table has been steadily increasing. My current policy is this:
-Unearthed Arcana Variant Rules are in use. These include:
>Action Points
>Reserve Points
>Traits
>Flaws
Each of the players has had a chance to review these rules and most of the original players also had a say in which rules to include.
-Anything Core is good to go
-First level classes are restricted to the Player's Handbook. This is largely due to the fact that I wanted to keep the classes from the complete series and expanded psionics handbook rare - although these classes will become available to those who put enough effort into seeking them out (and have cause to).
-I try to ensure my players get a fair amount of reading in on their home region as illustrated in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. As all of the characters travelled by ship or by foot rather than portal, they also have at least a vague idea on where they're from on the map.
-Race selection is rather limited. After a fairly extensive discussion with a potential player, I informed him that "Changling" is simply not an acceptable race for this campaign setting. Players are asked to choose from the Forgotten Realms campaign setting, and then select an appropriate region.
-Feats from the expanded psionics handbook, complete series and those Forgotten Realms setting books I own are readily available. I've spent a great deal of time reviewing them and I see no problem with allowing them into the game.
-Content from Dragon Magazine is usually permitted pending my approval. As long as I can read it when you want to take it, and whenever else I may need to review it again, It's probably okay.
-Material from other books is only allowed after I've reviewed it in detail and given an OK.
ShadowDragon8685
08-13-05, 09:31 PM I, personally, and bear in mind this is just a half-cocked idea I've been working on, think it can work if you restrict players to 'themes,' based on their character's background.

So, for example, someone from the Frostfell, who's got a background as such, can use anything he likes from Frostburn. No other splat books allowed at chargen. Only the core books of the campaign (could be just Core, or Core + XPH,) and Frostburn.

If someone else, on the other hand, is a very martial character, he can use the Complete Warrior. (Bearing in mind that if you even mention the words 'hulking hurler' or 'Frenzied berzerker' you're right out.)

The studious wizard can use CA, and the pious Cleric (or the tree-hugging, busty elf druid) can use the CD. No mixing and matching until you get an IC reason to do so - say, if the party contains two Wizards, one from the Frostfell, and one from the great mage academies, they could swap spells freely to expand each other's knowledge. And if they both wound up in a Desert for a prolonged time, they can start using the Sandstorm or whatever it's called book.

You get what I'm saying? Under no circumstances are you allowed a PrC at chargen - PrCs are for roleplaying only.
JabberWocky
08-13-05, 09:36 PM I allow most anything that can be justified in a practical sense and is sanctioned by WotC. Everything the players want to use must be discussed with the DM beforehand, and this tends to balance things out nicely. Holding group discussions about what they think their characters should do also helps nicely.
dongol
08-13-05, 09:59 PM For my PCs, I allow anything from the PHB with no questions asked. Everything else is discussed on a case-by-case basis. This keeps me from getting blindsided by anything overpowered or inappropriate that I may not have read about before.

My thoughts exactly.
TheErsatzFacsimileOfMe
08-13-05, 10:02 PM First off...I would like to state for the record that I play broken and lovely 3.0 (both as a DM and a PC).

I own:
Dungeon Master's Guide
Player's Handbook
Book of Vile Darkness (NPC's only, no PC usage)
Masters of the Wild
Defenders of the Faith
Deities and Demigods
Monter Manual I
Monster Manual II
and The Draconomicon

I allow all things WotC into my games provided they come from the rule set I use. (currently 3.0)

As a rule of thumb, I keep it to one splat per PC. Although, they can use anything and everything available in that book...AND
have a decent roleplaying and/or storyline reason to do so...

So, you could, in theory, have a Druid5/Shifter3/Geomancer10
But, you'd best have a darn good in game reason for doing so...not just because "It's this uber-build I found online."
Ut-Napishtim
08-13-05, 10:19 PM Well, I have a handful of supplements, and most of the time my players have even more of their own. I don't mind allowing things from them, most of the time they're not gamebreaking in and of themselves. What I tend to look for is stacking. In the same way that Improved Critical and Keen don't stack, some things in supplements were not intended to be combined. For example I had a player a while back that took a Gray Elf (+2 Int), Elven Paragon (+2 Int), and then wanted to take Spellcasting Prodigy (or some such) for another +2 Int on his Wizard. I told him he had to pick the two out of three that he wanted. There aren't a lot of things I ban outright, but I tend to keep an eye out for combinations to keep things from getting silly.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple
08-13-05, 10:49 PM I have enough books that I literally had to buy a wheeled duffel bag just to be able to haul them to the gaming table. My recent acquisition of Races of Eberron puts my WotC-published books total up to 16: three Eberron books, three FR books, MM's I and III, four core books (I include the XPH as a core book), three of the four books in the Complete series as published thus far, and Unearthed Arcana.

The simple fact of the matter is, though, that when you introduce a large number of books to a campaign, feats that would be otherwise difficult to use effectively become completely amazing. By merely bringing in Complete Warrior into the mix of things in my group when it first came out, Monkey Grip became the default second feat for almost every full-combat character my group has seen since then, and feats like Spring Attack become more attractive when they're not only prerequisites for PrC's like the Elocater, but when these affore mentioned PrC's give them more opportunities to be used to worthwhile effect.

Of course, at low levels the impact of multiple splatbooks is minimized. With less levels to work with, it forces the player to sacrifice a little here and there. At higher levels, a character could have every feat he needs to become broken...

That's why, as a DM, I generally allow only books that I have in my posession to be used in my campaign... but then, I do also have more books than anyone else in my group, and for the most part, I have almost every book that everyone else int he group has anyways. If I were the runt of the D&D Librarian litter, I certainly would be more permissive with books I'm unfamiliar with, but I doubt I'll ever go back to allowing material from books that I haven't read from cover to cover... not since the Book of Exalted Deeds killed a campaign of mine.
Lord Schpungus
08-13-05, 11:42 PM I'm not allowing BoED or BoVD right now, but everything else WOTC goes, although I'm watching classes/feats/etc.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rbrt_Spade 08-13-05, 11:38 AM	from the lists of books ppl own on the boards, what do you ppl do to control game balance? ive seen ppl on here who own every 3.5 & 3.0 books.-players do that to.-what do you guys do to control feats,prcs ect.? also in some groups i would be mad as a player if a owned a lot of spat books and cant use them. also how many books do you guys have and why? i think having a lot of books is crazy-do you even use them besides read them? i only buy the books that i will use than buy every but that comes out. i own 6 and finishing of the 3.0class books becuase i like them more than the complete books. mine phb dmg mm psihb t&b s&f
Board_Rider 08-13-05, 11:43 AM	In let rules balance the game. Not books. I would love more books but between me and my group we have many of them covered. I allow all things WoTC in my game.
Tiruvel 08-13-05, 12:49 PM	I unfortunately(?) don't have that problem. Only two of my three regular players have got the players handbook (one of them FINALLY bought it a few ways ago..), and although they are great roleplayers their main problem is that they are not that "knowledgeable" concerning their characters' possibilities... They're kinda more interested in background and character-attitudes than rules... :P
evilgenius 08-13-05, 01:06 PM	My solution is I allow 1 splat book per character. For the most part, each book is balanced within itself by playtesting. However, it's when you combine feats, PrCs spells and items from different books that really unforseen powergaming comes up. Go the the Character Optimization boards, and see just how few of those super-build characters rely on the SRD alone, or on one splatbook. Almost none of them.
Kes Alanadel 08-13-05, 01:37 PM	Tifus and I own quite a few books, and in the campaign I am running right now it's 'core only'. I did that for a couple of reasons: 1) one player is new to D&D, and I didn't want her to be more overwhelmed than it can already be. 2) some of the other players are new to 3.5 (they played 3.0) and they need to figure out the tweaks between the two editions. 3) I haven't read all the books we have, and I am still new enough to the DM chair, I don't want to have to look in 10 different books to make sure something is being used correctly. My thoughts on player's splat books- if I am the DM, I say what is and isn't used. If we/I don't own the book, it isn't used. If that makes a player mad, sorry I really don't care, I'm not going to allow something I don't know into a game. I want to be able to know what a feat/class/ability is thoroughly so that it is used correctly. I also reserve the right to say that some parts of splat books are not allowed at all. Just because it is in a WotC publication, doesn't mean that it fits in the campaign/world that I am running.
Khastalphos 08-13-05, 02:05 PM	For my PCs, I allow anything from the PHB with no questions asked. Everything else is discussed on a case-by-case basis. This keeps me from getting blindsided by anything overpowered or inappropriate that I may not have read about before.
kliate 08-13-05, 08:06 PM	I've experimented with a few policies on which books to allow, and have found that as long as the DM has a firm grasp on their contents, and the players a reasonable understanding, that almost any policy is workable. In my previous campaign ("Eagle's Talon"), it was pretty much anything goes. Characters included humans, elves and even a savage progression troll. As the campaign took place in an isolated region of a largely undeveloped world, it was an easy matter to work in features from virtually any book. Now, for my current campaign (Name Pending, placed in the Forgotten Realms), I've decided to try a slightly more strict policy (still, its hardly a prohibitive one) largely because the number of books being brought to the table has been steadily increasing. My current policy is this: -Unearthed Arcana Variant Rules are in use. These include: >Action Points >Reserve Points >Traits >Flaws Each of the players has had a chance to review these rules and most of the original players also had a say in which rules to include. -Anything Core is good to go -First level classes are restricted to the Player's Handbook. This is largely due to the fact that I wanted to keep the classes from the complete series and expanded psionics handbook rare - although these classes will become available to those who put enough effort into seeking them out (and have cause to). -I try to ensure my players get a fair amount of reading in on their home region as illustrated in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. As all of the characters travelled by ship or by foot rather than portal, they also have at least a vague idea on where they're from on the map. -Race selection is rather limited. After a fairly extensive discussion with a potential player, I informed him that "Changling" is simply not an acceptable race for this campaign setting. Players are asked to choose from the Forgotten Realms campaign setting, and then select an appropriate region. -Feats from the expanded psionics handbook, complete series and those Forgotten Realms setting books I own are readily available. I've spent a great deal of time reviewing them and I see no problem with allowing them into the game. -Content from Dragon Magazine is usually permitted pending my approval. As long as I can read it when you want to take it, and whenever else I may need to review it again, It's probably okay. -Material from other books is only allowed after I've reviewed it in detail and given an OK.
ShadowDragon8685 08-13-05, 09:31 PM	I, personally, and bear in mind this is just a half-cocked idea I've been working on, think it can work if you restrict players to 'themes,' based on their character's background. So, for example, someone from the Frostfell, who's got a background as such, can use anything he likes from Frostburn. No other splat books allowed at chargen. Only the core books of the campaign (could be just Core, or Core + XPH,) and Frostburn. If someone else, on the other hand, is a very martial character, he can use the Complete Warrior. (Bearing in mind that if you even mention the words 'hulking hurler' or 'Frenzied berzerker' you're right out.) The studious wizard can use CA, and the pious Cleric (or the tree-hugging, busty elf druid) can use the CD. No mixing and matching until you get an IC reason to do so - say, if the party contains two Wizards, one from the Frostfell, and one from the great mage academies, they could swap spells freely to expand each other's knowledge. And if they both wound up in a Desert for a prolonged time, they can start using the Sandstorm or whatever it's called book. You get what I'm saying? Under no circumstances are you allowed a PrC at chargen - PrCs are for roleplaying only.
JabberWocky 08-13-05, 09:36 PM	I allow most anything that can be justified in a practical sense and is sanctioned by WotC. Everything the players want to use must be discussed with the DM beforehand, and this tends to balance things out nicely. Holding group discussions about what they think their characters should do also helps nicely.
dongol 08-13-05, 09:59 PM	For my PCs, I allow anything from the PHB with no questions asked. Everything else is discussed on a case-by-case basis. This keeps me from getting blindsided by anything overpowered or inappropriate that I may not have read about before. My thoughts exactly.
TheErsatzFacsimileOfMe 08-13-05, 10:02 PM	First off...I would like to state for the record that I play broken and lovely 3.0 (both as a DM and a PC). I own: Dungeon Master's Guide Player's Handbook Book of Vile Darkness (NPC's only, no PC usage) Masters of the Wild Defenders of the Faith Deities and Demigods Monter Manual I Monster Manual II and The Draconomicon I allow all things WotC into my games provided they come from the rule set I use. (currently 3.0) As a rule of thumb, I keep it to one splat per PC. Although, they can use anything and everything available in that book...AND have a decent roleplaying and/or storyline reason to do so... So, you could, in theory, have a Druid5/Shifter3/Geomancer10 But, you'd best have a darn good in game reason for doing so...not just because "It's this uber-build I found online."
Ut-Napishtim 08-13-05, 10:19 PM	Well, I have a handful of supplements, and most of the time my players have even more of their own. I don't mind allowing things from them, most of the time they're not gamebreaking in and of themselves. What I tend to look for is stacking. In the same way that Improved Critical and Keen don't stack, some things in supplements were not intended to be combined. For example I had a player a while back that took a Gray Elf (+2 Int), Elven Paragon (+2 Int), and then wanted to take Spellcasting Prodigy (or some such) for another +2 Int on his Wizard. I told him he had to pick the two out of three that he wanted. There aren't a lot of things I ban outright, but I tend to keep an eye out for combinations to keep things from getting silly.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 08-13-05, 10:49 PM	I have enough books that I literally had to buy a wheeled duffel bag just to be able to haul them to the gaming table. My recent acquisition of Races of Eberron puts my WotC-published books total up to 16: three Eberron books, three FR books, MM's I and III, four core books (I include the XPH as a core book), three of the four books in the Complete series as published thus far, and Unearthed Arcana. The simple fact of the matter is, though, that when you introduce a large number of books to a campaign, feats that would be otherwise difficult to use effectively become completely amazing. By merely bringing in Complete Warrior into the mix of things in my group when it first came out, Monkey Grip became the default second feat for almost every full-combat character my group has seen since then, and feats like Spring Attack become more attractive when they're not only prerequisites for PrC's like the Elocater, but when these affore mentioned PrC's give them more opportunities to be used to worthwhile effect. Of course, at low levels the impact of multiple splatbooks is minimized. With less levels to work with, it forces the player to sacrifice a little here and there. At higher levels, a character could have every feat he needs to become broken... That's why, as a DM, I generally allow only books that I have in my posession to be used in my campaign... but then, I do also have more books than anyone else in my group, and for the most part, I have almost every book that everyone else int he group has anyways. If I were the runt of the D&D Librarian litter, I certainly would be more permissive with books I'm unfamiliar with, but I doubt I'll ever go back to allowing material from books that I haven't read from cover to cover... not since the Book of Exalted Deeds killed a campaign of mine.
Lord Schpungus 08-13-05, 11:42 PM	I'm not allowing BoED or BoVD right now, but everything else WOTC goes, although I'm watching classes/feats/etc.