Booky business over Xmas break [Archive] - Wizards Community

Booky business over Xmas break [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Doom_Linnorm
12-07-06, 03:35 PM First off I have to enlighten you to the fact that I am for most of this and perhaps next year at a boarding school in england.
Why is this relevant?
Because the school encourages extra curricular (did I spell it correctly? [Note: It's grammatically correct to say correctly in this case, although this is probably the most common grammatical error of all english speakers, even native speakers) activities and under my leadership a DnD activity has started, meaning that a few people from the school will start up two campaigns with me. (wednesday and friday)

I am planning to get two new books over Xmas break.
Here's the dilemma.
Which books?!

I have my eyes on:

Campaign related:
Lords of Madness
Fiendish Codex I
Fiendish Codex II
Book of Exalted Deeds

Player option related:
Complete Arcane
Complete Mage
Complete Divine
Magic of Incarnum (People REALLY like it a heck of a lot... maybe I should...)

(I don't have any extra stuff for Arcane and Divine spellcasters, though divine isn't needed as much as Arcane in my opinion thanks to some of my other source books having more Divine options in them than Arcane.)

ARGH WHAT TO BUY
I am looking to expand Arcane options a bit more but also want some juicy campaign morsels.
JayceMD
12-07-06, 03:47 PM Lords of Madness (LoM) is an excellent addition to any campaign. The fluff in it is excellent and will lead to many adventure ideas and plot hooks. The more rules-related sections of the book are also well-done and have options for both players and DM-controlled creatures. Hands-down, a superior choice.

From the complete-series, I wouldn't really recommend getting Complete Mage (CM) if you don't have Complete Arcane (CA). Numerous things in CM build off of options presented in CA. I do like CM, though, although the front section of the book (advice for character builds) should definitely be taken with a grain of salt. If you get Complete Divine, be prepared to, as a DM, carefully monitor what is chosen from the book and how it might impact your campaign.

In the end, my advice would be: LoM and CA
Feeb
12-07-06, 03:53 PM MoI is an interesting choice as well, I certainly like it, but be aware that it is a cap-system book, so there is a bit more leg work to adding MoI to a campaign than say drawing some PrC's, ideas or plot hooks from LoM or CA. The Tome of Magic book is also a good pick if you are looking for new spellcasting systems, and is a bit more modular than MoI.

In final analysis, I'll have to echo the poster above me, LoM and CA might be the best fit for your stated needs.
Doom_Linnorm
12-07-06, 03:53 PM I also added BoED and Incarnum to the list, I knew I left two books out, any thoughts on that or just not really? (Aimed at Jayce MD)
Ocalus
12-07-06, 04:04 PM I am planning to get two new books over Xmas break.
Here's the dillema.
Which books?!

Might I suggest a dictionary. ;)

Beyond that, I'd go for the Complete ________ books. They have decent bag for the buck and offer lots of customization options.
JayceMD
12-07-06, 04:14 PM I don't have Magic of Incarnum, so I am completely unqualified to speak to that book. I would not recommend that you get Book of Exalted Deeds. While I'm not saying that it's a bad book, it opens up too many headaches for players and DMs alike. If you've spent any time at all on these boards you'll have noticed a preponderance of "Can my paladin do this?" threads. Exalted characters have to be holier than your best behaved paladin. It's better that you just don't open that door.
Doom_Linnorm
12-07-06, 04:15 PM Sorry I'm a notoriously bad speller and English isn't my native langauge. :D
However I hear from the people here at school that my english speech is superior to that of most english people, though I sound american at times according to them.

BoED warning noted.
Kendrick
12-07-06, 04:17 PM I would definitely go with Complete Arcane and Complete Mage.

Magic of Incarnum is a PITA - you have to learn a new system about as complicated as Psionics just to figure it out, and at least the XPH gave us the Psion to show everybody what the Sorcerer was meant to be. MoI does nothing of the sort. Incarnum is also beyond goofy flavor-wise IMO.

BoED is flat broken unless you thouroughly enforce all role-playing restrictions. I have never enjoyed "exalted" characters RP wise, and I doubt that *all* of your players are going to want to do that; and if they don't all go along with it it may create a lot of resentment when the exalted characters start interfering in things due to their "exaltedness".

Complete Divine just doesn't offer that many balanced options for divine casters IMO. There are a lot of PrCs, but several of them are broken, several of them suck, and most of the rest have fairly specific rp restrictions or connotations.

I don't have either Fiendish Codex or Lords of Madness, but they sound more like books to build monsters out of than books for your players to use. And if you want more monsters you can build your own, forget about balance, and give XP/treasure for them according to what you see when your players actually fight them. It's far more of a PITA to come up with balanced player content than to figure out novel options for monsters.

Both Complete Arcane and Complete Mage, on the other hand, give a number of viable options for primary casters as well as some useful material for non-dedicated casters.
Doom_Linnorm
12-07-06, 04:30 PM Score so far:

CA: 3
LoM: 2
CM: 1
Tevish Szat
12-07-06, 05:06 PM Lords of Madness and Fiendish Codex I. Both are top notch books with monsters, campaign ideas, tons of fluff (the good stuff) and even PrCs and items for thsoe pesky players! aslo, you mgiht ask your players what books, if any, they intend to get: this might lighten your load for complete or other player option books if you have a shared group library.
Deekin
12-07-06, 07:55 PM If you don't have it, Expanded Psionics Handbook. Great flaver, great balance, and it's different enough from magic to be cool, but close enough to not be confusing.
Onikani
12-07-06, 08:20 PM Complete Arc and Complete mage.
Complete Div si decent, but idon't think there's enough bang for the buck in it.

I wouldn't use the book of Vile/Exalted if you gave it/them to me for free, gift wraped in gold paper.
I would take the wrapping paper for future use and probably use the pages of the book to lines my cat's litter box.

I've never read LoM so i can't comment on it.
Articman
12-07-06, 08:39 PM If you are going for character info for players and a lovely looks at spell casters I highly recomend the Complete Arc. Hands down this is a good book.

If you want books on stoyline development and or creature development I would have to say one of two. Lords of Madness or Fendish Codex I. I have not bought the LOM yet but I have heard many great things about it. I do own Fendish Codex I and if you are looking at using demons or the like this is a great book to buy.
TheWerg
12-07-06, 08:44 PM I'm gonna throw another vote in the boat for "Stay away from BoED". Unless you like burning a whole session talking about whether Exalted Character X could commit Possibly Evil Deed Y.
Necrosis
12-07-06, 10:00 PM Lords of Madness,

Excellent book, despite it been described as a book of aberations, while superfically it aphears so, it is not. The lords of madness actually provides a whole sersis of instant over archeing bad guy plots for your campigns.

Weather its the mindflayers manipulating the world of man to re-learn what makes great empires fall, succed and thrive. Or the predatorey Grell whos sole ambition is to follow the herd and predate huminoids, or even the horrfic alien-esqe slavers, the beholder cults, and aboleths.....

You get the picture-this book is full of alien groups who make ideal over arching bad guys for your PC's to plot against, join or run away from!
Tevish Szat
12-07-06, 10:03 PM Lords of Madness,

Excellent book, despite it been described as a book of aberations, while superfically it aphears so, it is not. The lords of madness actually provides a whole sersis of instant over archeing bad guy plots for your campigns.

Weather its the mindflayers manipulating the world of man to re-learn what makes great empires fall, succed and thrive. Or the predatorey Grell whos sole ambition is to follow the herd and predate huminoids, or even the horrfic alien-esqe slavers, the beholder cults, and aboleths.....

You get the picture-this book is full of alien groups who make ideal over arching bad guys for your PC's to plot against, join or run away from!

Don;t forget the Go'uld- er, i mean Tsochari.

also gives useful player stuff to fight them
Archangel62
12-08-06, 12:56 AM Tome of Magic and Tome of Battle are both excellent books. BoED and BoVD are generally not a good idea for novice groups, and even experienced groups unless everyone can come to a solid conclusion and you can trust everyone to be mature. Those books can cause a lot of havoc and imbalance.
Krusk
12-08-06, 01:56 AM My votes go in order

LOM
FC1
-possbly FC2 havent read it as it isnt out
Complete arcane
complete Mage

and then none of the other books.

The reason LOM and FC1-2 are at the top is that you said your dm, and these books really help out DMs. Ontop of having much better monsters than the MM1-4 they have tons of advice for campaign building and running the bad guys.
TheCrawlingSpleen
12-08-06, 02:15 AM I will add to the group suggesting Lords of Madness. It presents cool new monsters (like the Tsochari), as well as giving the ones from the MM a dark, creepy feel (mind flayers and aboleths especially). I would also suggest the Fiendish Codices, but buying books on demons and devils for Christmas...may be a little inappropriate (out of respect for the holiday, I left FC II off my gift list). In lieu of an FC, I'll recommend Complete Arcane, which definitely has some fun stuff in it.

extra cericular (did I spell it right?)

Extra curricular. ;)
Sphyre
12-08-06, 02:26 AM First off I have to enlighten you to the fact that I am for most of this and perhaps next year at a boarding school in england.
Why is this relevant?
Because the school encourages extra curricular (did I spell it correctly? [Note: It's grammatically correct to say correctly in this case, although this is probably the most common grammatical error of all english speakers, even native speakers) activities and under my leadership a DnD activity has started, meaning that a few people from the school will start up two campaigns with me. (wednesday and friday)

I am planning to get two new books over Xmas break.
Here's the dilemma.
Which books?!

I have my eyes on:

Campaign related:
Lords of Madness
Fiendish Codex I
Fiendish Codex II
Book of Exalted [Note: I don't know why 98% of english speakers can't spell this one correctly either. :(] Deeds

Player option related:
Complete Arcane
Complete Mage
Complete Divine
Magic of Incarnum (People REALLY like it a heck of a lot... maybe I should...)

(I don't have any extra stuff for Arcane and Divine spellcasters, though divine isn't needed as much as Arcane in my opinion thanks to some of my other source books having more Divine options in them than [Note: Then is used when you are refering to time. Example: I will eat and then I will do the dishes. Than is used when you compare two things. Example: I like cheese more than I like bread] arcane.)

ARGH WHAT TO BUY :P
I am looking to expand Arcane options a bit more but also want some juicy campaign morsels.

What amazes me is how you can spell things such campaign and morsels correctly, but you lack the ability to spell much more common words - esspecially since english isn't your first language, and words like "need" are much more common than campaign. While I can sympathize with spelling incorrectly in another language that might be similar to your own, I'm much more skillful when it comes to spelling japanese words correctly, rather than german words... I guess I follow the same line of thought, huh?

Anyway, I went through your post, for your benefit, and fixed spellings so you'll know for next time.

If you're limited to only two books, I'd say Tome of Battle (Yay! Melee that doesn't suck! So much so, you might find more interest in playing melee, as opposed to always arcane) and since you said you like arcane magic there's a few options there:

Tome of Magic - Adds 3 new unique casters. It doesn't add on much but rather seems more stand alone additions.
Complete Arcane - Obviously, if you want more power or alternate arcane caster choices this has them.
Complete Mage - Haven't purchased this one yet, but I'm sure it's got more you might like.
And my personal Favorite - Spell Compendium. A book with a ton of spells for easy reference, from every 3.5 source upto the time it was released. I love it. Since arcane casters are really all about their spells, what's better than a book that gives you more spells? :)
Doom_Linnorm
12-08-06, 02:35 AM The score so far is fairly obvious.
LoM is crushing all opposition.
CA is in second but with FCI right on its heels.
CM and FCII are trudging along at respectable speeds.
MoI is a bit dizzy and resting at the starting line.
BoED is being crushed somewhere BEHIND the starting line by an angry mob.

LoM: 7.5
CA: 5
CM: 3
FCI: 4
FCII: 1.5
MoI: -1
BoED: -5

(+ to be included in next count from posters below)
As for Psionics, ToM and ToB: 9 Swords.
Sorry but I really am not interested, thanks for suggestions anyway.
tsuyoshikentsu
12-08-06, 02:50 AM Let me throw in my support here fore FCs I and II. I happen to like these books, both fluff-wise and crunch-wise. (Although, you really should get CAr before FCII, because a lot of stuff in FC II is for the Warlock.)
Doom_Linnorm
12-08-06, 04:27 AM CA is moving in but FCI and FCII have picked up the pace.
CM is struggling not to be overtaken by FCII.
MoI and BoED are still going nowhere fast, but BoED is going there faster.
WHAT AN EXCITING RACE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!

LoM: 7.5
CA: 5.5
CM: 3
FCI: 5
FCII: 2.5
MoI: -1
BoED: -5
Doom_Linnorm
12-08-06, 12:18 PM :bump:
Shameless bump to extract more advice out of the board members!
ornitholestes
12-08-06, 02:37 PM I will echo agree with those who recomended Lords of Madness, it offers lots of fun (and Evil with a capitol E) things to use as DM. At the very least its enjoyable to read, and it even offers some player options.

I haven't bought any of the other books on your list so I really cannot comment on most of them. I have looked through the book of exalted deeds (and book of vile darkness) and wasn't impressed with either one, though I haven't read thoroughly enough to make a definite comment.

As for a few books mentioned by other posters but not on your list, Expanded Psionics Handbook and Book of Nine Swords are excellent resources for the player and DM. They add completely new systems so, as DM, you will need to do your homework. However the variety they add to the game is just great. If I had to give away all of my D&D books except for the core PHB, DMG, and MM and two others, I would pick these two easily (and beg them to let me keep Eberron, but thats another story. . .).
OamuTheMonk
12-08-06, 05:16 PM Lords of Madness and Complete Arcane. Both good buys.
Doom_Linnorm
12-09-06, 05:05 AM LoM: 9.5
CA: 6.5
CM: 3
FCI: 5
FCII: 2.5
MoI: -1
BoED: -6
Doom_Linnorm
12-09-06, 04:24 PM :bump:
C'mon, is the race already over?
No words left from others about why these books should be used in the campaign I'm starting after Xmas?
Demarest
12-09-06, 04:50 PM I must say that this has been an interesting thread to watch, but as I have none of the aforementioned books, I have since declined to comment.

If you want my take on good books for the DM to have? The Environment series, hands down. Stormwrack, Sandstorm and Frostburn. Perhaps Cityscape, to a lesser degree. That order is not how I rank the books, by the way. They're each good for what you want to do in unique settings.
TheWerg
12-09-06, 05:36 PM I've just been reading Lords of Madness, and I'd like to say what a well-done and interesting book it is. It has my vote as well.
Doom_Linnorm
12-10-06, 05:46 AM Tip on enviroment books noted.
Seeing as my main continent has a large desert in the middle that has played a VERY important role in my world history and I have a rock desert on the second continent where a war is currently being fought.. Sandstorm would be an obvious choice.

LoM is most certainly in, with a 10.5 score so far from votes it beats the rest hands down.

Now its just CA vs FCI and FCII more or less.
Onikani
12-10-06, 04:26 PM I've already voted, so i'm not sure how you would score this.

But i would now say (since you've entertained the thoughts of Sandstorm) that CA and Sandstorm are probably your best bets.

Sandstorm is an amazing book, and also comes with a decent section of new monsters and spells. If your continent has 2 wastelands it is now an obvious choice and should be considered above all else. (seriously, like +20 votes to sandstorm).

So for your other book, i would still suggest CArc over LoM.

Complete mage is excellent, but it is worthless without CArc.

Out of those 4
1) Sandstorm
2) Com Arcane
3) Lords of Madness
4) Com Mage.
Tevish Szat
12-10-06, 04:31 PM Monster books over complete. seriously. any complete book has tons of options ofr player and DM alike, and while thsi ais a good thing, each one is goign to have its on quireks if fully implimented, and for extracirricular D&D you donl;t want a) the hassle of passing the book aroudn to eveyne who wants it or b) the confusion of many added rules for the players. overall, i woudl say wait until you ahve a group with some experience before introing the Complete series
Doom_Linnorm
12-11-06, 09:40 AM I actualy have a plan for introducing this meterial.
My world is crawling with different cultures and I'm linking almost every PrC to a culture or group of cultures, The PC's will travel around a lot and meet NPCs of various PrCs as a way to get to know the PrCs.
Including a lot of custom made ones.
Witchdocter PrC for the trolls.
Tombguardian PrC for the Shakundu (scarab humanoids)
Mystic Theurge PrC for the Twilight (magic crazy lizardfolk)
Frenzied Beserker PrC for Orcs and Gorehides (battle hungry lizardfolk)
Drunken Brawler PrC for the Dwarves (obviously)
Etc.

Most likely this method will not produce imba-CO-characters but I think it will be good for story based adventure.

Hmmmm... Sandstorm's art gallery does show some interesting things....
I'll think about it.
Doom_Linnorm
12-11-06, 02:34 PM :bump::D :bump:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Doom_Linnorm 12-07-06, 03:35 PM	First off I have to enlighten you to the fact that I am for most of this and perhaps next year at a boarding school in england. Why is this relevant? Because the school encourages extra curricular (did I spell it correctly? [Note: It's grammatically correct to say correctly in this case, although this is probably the most common grammatical error of all english speakers, even native speakers) activities and under my leadership a DnD activity has started, meaning that a few people from the school will start up two campaigns with me. (wednesday and friday) I am planning to get two new books over Xmas break. Here's the dilemma. Which books?! I have my eyes on: Campaign related: Lords of Madness Fiendish Codex I Fiendish Codex II Book of Exalted Deeds Player option related: Complete Arcane Complete Mage Complete Divine Magic of Incarnum (People REALLY like it a heck of a lot... maybe I should...) (I don't have any extra stuff for Arcane and Divine spellcasters, though divine isn't needed as much as Arcane in my opinion thanks to some of my other source books having more Divine options in them than Arcane.) ARGH WHAT TO BUY I am looking to expand Arcane options a bit more but also want some juicy campaign morsels.
JayceMD 12-07-06, 03:47 PM	Lords of Madness (LoM) is an excellent addition to any campaign. The fluff in it is excellent and will lead to many adventure ideas and plot hooks. The more rules-related sections of the book are also well-done and have options for both players and DM-controlled creatures. Hands-down, a superior choice. From the complete-series, I wouldn't really recommend getting Complete Mage (CM) if you don't have Complete Arcane (CA). Numerous things in CM build off of options presented in CA. I do like CM, though, although the front section of the book (advice for character builds) should definitely be taken with a grain of salt. If you get Complete Divine, be prepared to, as a DM, carefully monitor what is chosen from the book and how it might impact your campaign. In the end, my advice would be: LoM and CA
Feeb 12-07-06, 03:53 PM	MoI is an interesting choice as well, I certainly like it, but be aware that it is a cap-system book, so there is a bit more leg work to adding MoI to a campaign than say drawing some PrC's, ideas or plot hooks from LoM or CA. The Tome of Magic book is also a good pick if you are looking for new spellcasting systems, and is a bit more modular than MoI. In final analysis, I'll have to echo the poster above me, LoM and CA might be the best fit for your stated needs.
Doom_Linnorm 12-07-06, 03:53 PM	I also added BoED and Incarnum to the list, I knew I left two books out, any thoughts on that or just not really? (Aimed at Jayce MD)
Ocalus 12-07-06, 04:04 PM	I am planning to get two new books over Xmas break. Here's the dillema. Which books?! Might I suggest a dictionary. ;) Beyond that, I'd go for the Complete ________ books. They have decent bag for the buck and offer lots of customization options.
JayceMD 12-07-06, 04:14 PM	I don't have Magic of Incarnum, so I am completely unqualified to speak to that book. I would not recommend that you get Book of Exalted Deeds. While I'm not saying that it's a bad book, it opens up too many headaches for players and DMs alike. If you've spent any time at all on these boards you'll have noticed a preponderance of "Can my paladin do this?" threads. Exalted characters have to be holier than your best behaved paladin. It's better that you just don't open that door.
Doom_Linnorm 12-07-06, 04:15 PM	Sorry I'm a notoriously bad speller and English isn't my native langauge. :D However I hear from the people here at school that my english speech is superior to that of most english people, though I sound american at times according to them. BoED warning noted.
Kendrick 12-07-06, 04:17 PM	I would definitely go with Complete Arcane and Complete Mage. Magic of Incarnum is a PITA - you have to learn a new system about as complicated as Psionics just to figure it out, and at least the XPH gave us the Psion to show everybody what the Sorcerer was meant to be. MoI does nothing of the sort. Incarnum is also beyond goofy flavor-wise IMO. BoED is flat broken unless you thouroughly enforce all role-playing restrictions. I have never enjoyed "exalted" characters RP wise, and I doubt that all of your players are going to want to do that; and if they don't all go along with it it may create a lot of resentment when the exalted characters start interfering in things due to their "exaltedness". Complete Divine just doesn't offer that many balanced options for divine casters IMO. There are a lot of PrCs, but several of them are broken, several of them suck, and most of the rest have fairly specific rp restrictions or connotations. I don't have either Fiendish Codex or Lords of Madness, but they sound more like books to build monsters out of than books for your players to use. And if you want more monsters you can build your own, forget about balance, and give XP/treasure for them according to what you see when your players actually fight them. It's far more of a PITA to come up with balanced player content than to figure out novel options for monsters. Both Complete Arcane and Complete Mage, on the other hand, give a number of viable options for primary casters as well as some useful material for non-dedicated casters.
Doom_Linnorm 12-07-06, 04:30 PM	Score so far: CA: 3 LoM: 2 CM: 1
Tevish Szat 12-07-06, 05:06 PM	Lords of Madness and Fiendish Codex I. Both are top notch books with monsters, campaign ideas, tons of fluff (the good stuff) and even PrCs and items for thsoe pesky players! aslo, you mgiht ask your players what books, if any, they intend to get: this might lighten your load for complete or other player option books if you have a shared group library.
Deekin 12-07-06, 07:55 PM	If you don't have it, Expanded Psionics Handbook. Great flaver, great balance, and it's different enough from magic to be cool, but close enough to not be confusing.
Onikani 12-07-06, 08:20 PM	Complete Arc and Complete mage. Complete Div si decent, but idon't think there's enough bang for the buck in it. I wouldn't use the book of Vile/Exalted if you gave it/them to me for free, gift wraped in gold paper. I would take the wrapping paper for future use and probably use the pages of the book to lines my cat's litter box. I've never read LoM so i can't comment on it.
Articman 12-07-06, 08:39 PM	If you are going for character info for players and a lovely looks at spell casters I highly recomend the Complete Arc. Hands down this is a good book. If you want books on stoyline development and or creature development I would have to say one of two. Lords of Madness or Fendish Codex I. I have not bought the LOM yet but I have heard many great things about it. I do own Fendish Codex I and if you are looking at using demons or the like this is a great book to buy.
TheWerg 12-07-06, 08:44 PM	I'm gonna throw another vote in the boat for "Stay away from BoED". Unless you like burning a whole session talking about whether Exalted Character X could commit Possibly Evil Deed Y.
Necrosis 12-07-06, 10:00 PM	Lords of Madness, Excellent book, despite it been described as a book of aberations, while superfically it aphears so, it is not. The lords of madness actually provides a whole sersis of instant over archeing bad guy plots for your campigns. Weather its the mindflayers manipulating the world of man to re-learn what makes great empires fall, succed and thrive. Or the predatorey Grell whos sole ambition is to follow the herd and predate huminoids, or even the horrfic alien-esqe slavers, the beholder cults, and aboleths..... You get the picture-this book is full of alien groups who make ideal over arching bad guys for your PC's to plot against, join or run away from!
Tevish Szat 12-07-06, 10:03 PM	Lords of Madness, Excellent book, despite it been described as a book of aberations, while superfically it aphears so, it is not. The lords of madness actually provides a whole sersis of instant over archeing bad guy plots for your campigns. Weather its the mindflayers manipulating the world of man to re-learn what makes great empires fall, succed and thrive. Or the predatorey Grell whos sole ambition is to follow the herd and predate huminoids, or even the horrfic alien-esqe slavers, the beholder cults, and aboleths..... You get the picture-this book is full of alien groups who make ideal over arching bad guys for your PC's to plot against, join or run away from! Don;t forget the Go'uld- er, i mean Tsochari. also gives useful player stuff to fight them
Archangel62 12-08-06, 12:56 AM	Tome of Magic and Tome of Battle are both excellent books. BoED and BoVD are generally not a good idea for novice groups, and even experienced groups unless everyone can come to a solid conclusion and you can trust everyone to be mature. Those books can cause a lot of havoc and imbalance.
Krusk 12-08-06, 01:56 AM	My votes go in order LOM FC1 -possbly FC2 havent read it as it isnt out Complete arcane complete Mage and then none of the other books. The reason LOM and FC1-2 are at the top is that you said your dm, and these books really help out DMs. Ontop of having much better monsters than the MM1-4 they have tons of advice for campaign building and running the bad guys.
TheCrawlingSpleen 12-08-06, 02:15 AM	I will add to the group suggesting Lords of Madness. It presents cool new monsters (like the Tsochari), as well as giving the ones from the MM a dark, creepy feel (mind flayers and aboleths especially). I would also suggest the Fiendish Codices, but buying books on demons and devils for Christmas...may be a little inappropriate (out of respect for the holiday, I left FC II off my gift list). In lieu of an FC, I'll recommend Complete Arcane, which definitely has some fun stuff in it. extra cericular (did I spell it right?) Extra curricular. ;)
Sphyre 12-08-06, 02:26 AM	First off I have to enlighten you to the fact that I am for most of this and perhaps next year at a boarding school in england. Why is this relevant? Because the school encourages extra curricular (did I spell it correctly? [Note: It's grammatically correct to say correctly in this case, although this is probably the most common grammatical error of all english speakers, even native speakers) activities and under my leadership a DnD activity has started, meaning that a few people from the school will start up two campaigns with me. (wednesday and friday) I am planning to get two new books over Xmas break. Here's the dilemma. Which books?! I have my eyes on: Campaign related: Lords of Madness Fiendish Codex I Fiendish Codex II Book of Exalted [Note: I don't know why 98% of english speakers can't spell this one correctly either. :(] Deeds Player option related: Complete Arcane Complete Mage Complete Divine Magic of Incarnum (People REALLY like it a heck of a lot... maybe I should...) (I don't have any extra stuff for Arcane and Divine spellcasters, though divine isn't needed as much as Arcane in my opinion thanks to some of my other source books having more Divine options in them than [Note: Then is used when you are refering to time. Example: I will eat and then I will do the dishes. Than is used when you compare two things. Example: I like cheese more than I like bread] arcane.) ARGH WHAT TO BUY :P I am looking to expand Arcane options a bit more but also want some juicy campaign morsels. What amazes me is how you can spell things such campaign and morsels correctly, but you lack the ability to spell much more common words - esspecially since english isn't your first language, and words like "need" are much more common than campaign. While I can sympathize with spelling incorrectly in another language that might be similar to your own, I'm much more skillful when it comes to spelling japanese words correctly, rather than german words... I guess I follow the same line of thought, huh? Anyway, I went through your post, for your benefit, and fixed spellings so you'll know for next time. If you're limited to only two books, I'd say Tome of Battle (Yay! Melee that doesn't suck! So much so, you might find more interest in playing melee, as opposed to always arcane) and since you said you like arcane magic there's a few options there: Tome of Magic - Adds 3 new unique casters. It doesn't add on much but rather seems more stand alone additions. Complete Arcane - Obviously, if you want more power or alternate arcane caster choices this has them. Complete Mage - Haven't purchased this one yet, but I'm sure it's got more you might like. And my personal Favorite - Spell Compendium. A book with a ton of spells for easy reference, from every 3.5 source upto the time it was released. I love it. Since arcane casters are really all about their spells, what's better than a book that gives you more spells? :)
Doom_Linnorm 12-08-06, 02:35 AM	The score so far is fairly obvious. LoM is crushing all opposition. CA is in second but with FCI right on its heels. CM and FCII are trudging along at respectable speeds. MoI is a bit dizzy and resting at the starting line. BoED is being crushed somewhere BEHIND the starting line by an angry mob. LoM: 7.5 CA: 5 CM: 3 FCI: 4 FCII: 1.5 MoI: -1 BoED: -5 (+ to be included in next count from posters below) As for Psionics, ToM and ToB: 9 Swords. Sorry but I really am not interested, thanks for suggestions anyway.
tsuyoshikentsu 12-08-06, 02:50 AM	Let me throw in my support here fore FCs I and II. I happen to like these books, both fluff-wise and crunch-wise. (Although, you really should get CAr before FCII, because a lot of stuff in FC II is for the Warlock.)
Doom_Linnorm 12-08-06, 04:27 AM	CA is moving in but FCI and FCII have picked up the pace. CM is struggling not to be overtaken by FCII. MoI and BoED are still going nowhere fast, but BoED is going there faster. WHAT AN EXCITING RACE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! LoM: 7.5 CA: 5.5 CM: 3 FCI: 5 FCII: 2.5 MoI: -1 BoED: -5
Doom_Linnorm 12-08-06, 12:18 PM	:bump: Shameless bump to extract more advice out of the board members!
ornitholestes 12-08-06, 02:37 PM	I will echo agree with those who recomended Lords of Madness, it offers lots of fun (and Evil with a capitol E) things to use as DM. At the very least its enjoyable to read, and it even offers some player options. I haven't bought any of the other books on your list so I really cannot comment on most of them. I have looked through the book of exalted deeds (and book of vile darkness) and wasn't impressed with either one, though I haven't read thoroughly enough to make a definite comment. As for a few books mentioned by other posters but not on your list, Expanded Psionics Handbook and Book of Nine Swords are excellent resources for the player and DM. They add completely new systems so, as DM, you will need to do your homework. However the variety they add to the game is just great. If I had to give away all of my D&D books except for the core PHB, DMG, and MM and two others, I would pick these two easily (and beg them to let me keep Eberron, but thats another story. . .).
OamuTheMonk 12-08-06, 05:16 PM	Lords of Madness and Complete Arcane. Both good buys.
Doom_Linnorm 12-09-06, 05:05 AM	LoM: 9.5 CA: 6.5 CM: 3 FCI: 5 FCII: 2.5 MoI: -1 BoED: -6
Doom_Linnorm 12-09-06, 04:24 PM	:bump: C'mon, is the race already over? No words left from others about why these books should be used in the campaign I'm starting after Xmas?
Demarest 12-09-06, 04:50 PM	I must say that this has been an interesting thread to watch, but as I have none of the aforementioned books, I have since declined to comment. If you want my take on good books for the DM to have? The Environment series, hands down. Stormwrack, Sandstorm and Frostburn. Perhaps Cityscape, to a lesser degree. That order is not how I rank the books, by the way. They're each good for what you want to do in unique settings.
TheWerg 12-09-06, 05:36 PM	I've just been reading Lords of Madness, and I'd like to say what a well-done and interesting book it is. It has my vote as well.
Doom_Linnorm 12-10-06, 05:46 AM	Tip on enviroment books noted. Seeing as my main continent has a large desert in the middle that has played a VERY important role in my world history and I have a rock desert on the second continent where a war is currently being fought.. Sandstorm would be an obvious choice. LoM is most certainly in, with a 10.5 score so far from votes it beats the rest hands down. Now its just CA vs FCI and FCII more or less.
Onikani 12-10-06, 04:26 PM	I've already voted, so i'm not sure how you would score this. But i would now say (since you've entertained the thoughts of Sandstorm) that CA and Sandstorm are probably your best bets. Sandstorm is an amazing book, and also comes with a decent section of new monsters and spells. If your continent has 2 wastelands it is now an obvious choice and should be considered above all else. (seriously, like +20 votes to sandstorm). So for your other book, i would still suggest CArc over LoM. Complete mage is excellent, but it is worthless without CArc. Out of those 4 1) Sandstorm 2) Com Arcane 3) Lords of Madness 4) Com Mage.
Tevish Szat 12-10-06, 04:31 PM	Monster books over complete. seriously. any complete book has tons of options ofr player and DM alike, and while thsi ais a good thing, each one is goign to have its on quireks if fully implimented, and for extracirricular D&D you donl;t want a) the hassle of passing the book aroudn to eveyne who wants it or b) the confusion of many added rules for the players. overall, i woudl say wait until you ahve a group with some experience before introing the Complete series
Doom_Linnorm 12-11-06, 09:40 AM	I actualy have a plan for introducing this meterial. My world is crawling with different cultures and I'm linking almost every PrC to a culture or group of cultures, The PC's will travel around a lot and meet NPCs of various PrCs as a way to get to know the PrCs. Including a lot of custom made ones. Witchdocter PrC for the trolls. Tombguardian PrC for the Shakundu (scarab humanoids) Mystic Theurge PrC for the Twilight (magic crazy lizardfolk) Frenzied Beserker PrC for Orcs and Gorehides (battle hungry lizardfolk) Drunken Brawler PrC for the Dwarves (obviously) Etc. Most likely this method will not produce imba-CO-characters but I think it will be good for story based adventure. Hmmmm... Sandstorm's art gallery does show some interesting things.... I'll think about it.
Doom_Linnorm 12-11-06, 02:34 PM	:bump::D :bump: